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  #11  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:24 AM
Jade Jade is offline
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Yes. I don't particularly like it, but sometimes, it can't be helped. When I think it can be helped, I ask my OSO directly why his message came to me indirectly.
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2011, 01:19 AM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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We often pass messages along through each other. Pretty Lady rarely logs onto Skype, YIM, or even Facebook and is usually picking the kids up from after school activities when we are picking up Wendigo, so if we want to get a response about something we've sent her, we will ask Wendigo to relay the message and let us know what she has to say.

Frequently, when I'm talking to Wendigo on Skype and Runic Wolf isn't online, he and Wendigo will talk to each other through me and Wendigo will pass along our hugs good night to Pretty Lady. It works for us, for the most part.
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by suziesue View Post
Do you find in your relationships there is inevitably a certain amount of communication that goes via other partners to get to you, or do you view this as negative or try to avoid this?
yes there is, and I have grown to trust that there is no deceit involved and no reason for me to be concerned... Just as long as I get the information and it correct. Does it really matter who someone talks to as long as you are kept in the loop and things happen as is said they will?

If the information gets jumbled at some point then I will address that and ask whomever to come straight to me instead. I support going right to the person where ever possible and they do to, but sometimes it just saves time and that fine. I don't take it on. We are more than two and that is just part of it. Its not the same as two where there is direct communication all the time.

I liked NYCindie's response of what to say. I don't fine it passive aggressive at all. I never assume I know anything and always check even if I'm pretty sure I got it right. I tend to repeat back what people say quite often. Sometimes what I understand to be what they say is different than what they meant or different from what I understood.

If it were you, I would try to make sure there is not a passive aggressive tone and just ask for clarification and then say I am just learning how you two communicate. I find that all too often people get to caught up in how they might come across, wanting to express they are right in some way as if its a competition, and make assumptions about what was said. I just ask for clarification. Its more productive and I rarely get defensive or resentful as a result. To those I ask; they get to feel like I care, that I paid attention and the I respect their input and participation.
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Last edited by redpepper; 11-02-2011 at 09:24 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:39 AM
suziesue suziesue is offline
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Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter View Post
Frequently, when I'm talking to Wendigo on Skype and Runic Wolf isn't online, he and Wendigo will talk to each other through me and Wendigo will pass along our hugs good night to Pretty Lady.
Aw that made me smile so much to read. That sounds like a very happy and comfortable situation.

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yes there is, and I have grown to trust that there is no deceit involved and no reason for me to be concerned...
I think this pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. I don't think I do trust that messages would get to me unadulterated. Hm, I can't think why I would think that. Perhaps there are issues here I need to think through.

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I support going right to the person where ever possible and they do to, but sometimes it just saves time and that fine.
Oh, I certainly agree there are times when message passing just makes sense, but these particular cases don't seem to be about circumstance or convenience.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
We are more than two and that is just part of it. Its not the same as two where there is direct communication all the time.
Hm. I feel I do have a bit of a problem with that. I like the intimacy of hearing from people directly, the way someone says something lets you read so much more about what they are thinking and feeling than just the surface communication. (I like video chat much more than telephones, just because I find people easier to understand when I can see body language, for example).

This is my first foray into dating more than one person, and possibly there are things about it I just wont be able to make work for me.

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I liked NYCindie's response of what to say...(etc.)
I'm not really sure what to say about your last two paragraphs, as I haven't been asking for advice on what to say. If I decide to bring it up (which at this point I think I will), I will do so in my own way.
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  #15  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by suziesue View Post
I'm not really sure what to say about your last two paragraphs, as I haven't been asking for advice on what to say. If I decide to bring it up (which at this point I think I will), I will do so in my own way.
I would hope you do

Sometimes it helps to hear what people would actually say... I dunno, it helps me anyway. I find that when I get words rather than or along with concepts I get what people mean in a different way.

I don't think anyone is expecting you to use their words as is.... just to think about the concepts behind them and see if they are useful to you in thinking about who you are and how you could address the issue in the best way for you.
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  #16  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:01 PM
suziesue suziesue is offline
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I managed to talk to Alan today. He was confused, saying 'surely I did text you', but then he checked his phone, and ended up showing me the messages on it.

Basically, Bridget had been texting him, in a way that implied the messages were on my behalf, or from both of us (its a bit hard to explain without repeating their whole conversation). But in places she says things like 'Suzie needs to know what time you will be online'. But I specifically hadn't asked him for a time in advance as I didn't want him to make a promise and then stress if he couldn't make it, and I was at home all evening anyway, so it didn't matter to me. I'd told Bridget that he was just going to call when he was ready. Also, at the end of the conversation she said that I was very tired (which I wasn't) and asked him to promise her he wouldn't keep me up talking to me very long.

It also came up that a previous incident was because she had told him that she and I had discussed something and come to an agreement about it, when she hadn't even mentioned the subject to me!

By this point Alan was very apologetic, and I was feeling guilty that he was feeling bad about it (although still glad I bought it up), so we just changed the subject and moved on.


So, feeling pretty confused I called Bridget to ask her about it, and she said that it was because she cared about me she was 'watching out for me'. She said it was 'unfair' of Alan not to give me a time in advance, or to talk to me so late (I'm sure I've chatted to her just as late on occasion!), and that the agreement thing was 'in my interest', even if I didn't explicitly know about it.

I was getting a bit annoyed at this stage and said that I felt it was up to me to decide what was fair or not for me, not her.

She then started saying I was wrong to read her private text messages, which to be fair I kind of agree with. It just sort of spontaneously came up in the moment, with Alan going, 'look you guys were texting me about this...' and showing me, so I didn't even really think about it. In hindsight, I probably should have declined to read them and just said I didn't know the content of anything she was sending to him.

I then asked her if the three-way situation was making her unhappy or jealous, and she said there were some things that she felt she 'didn't have the right to ask for'. I asked her if she would be happier if Alan and I weren't perusing a relationship with each other, but she refused to answer the question.


So right now I'm feeling in a bit of a mess. I feel guilty that I may have been hurting Bridget by seeing Alan, but I don't want to stop seeing Alan (writing that makes me feel like a horribly selfish person). I also feel that Bridget has been being, er, manipulative, I guess? Its a bit of a stronger word than I mean really, just that she had been subtly (and probably not consciously) trying to control interactions between Alan and I, so I feel I can't trust her.
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  #17  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:54 PM
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Oh shit, what a mess. Here it was that Alan did make a mistake but only because it was Bridget who was interfering. Yes, I'd be irritated to say the least, if not just plain pissed off, that she was lying to him and trying to manipulate how you communicated. She was very passive-aggressive there. It's not irreparable or a huge betrayal, but I would feel distrustful of her, too. And the whole thing about saying you shouldn't have looked at her texts doesn't hold water because she was sending them to make them look like they were on your behalf!! He showed them to you, because he thought you were a party to sending them, so it wasn't wrong of you to look. Her having done that is indeed super manipulative and controlling.

I admire you for expressing your feelings to them right off the bat in the conversations you had. You didn't let it stew. It is obvious you have a good sense of self, think clearly, and are unafraid to communicate with them. So, I am sure, if you feel the need to speak to her further, you will find a way to tell her about the distrust you are feeling because that was not cool of her to do. However, you then second-guess yourself - why feel guilty about bringing up something like this where a deception has been uncovered? It was not your fault that he felt "bad" or weird about what happened. He was apologetic, but it sounds like he was probably confused more than anything, AND he was hurt by Bridget, not you.

What stands out to me, though, is that you are wondering if your relationship with Alan is messing this up with him and Bridget. It sounds like you thought that you should step back from seeing Alan if she is uncomfortable. But why? That is sort of saying that her relationship with him takes precedence over your relationship with him. I skimmed through your other thread and it sounds like, except for the distance between you and them (how far?), things all came together serendipitously and you have a history with both of them. But you were feeling like you are coming between them somehow or like you were having to be split in your loyalties to one or the other. It sounds to me like all three of you would benefit from having a group discussion (on video I guess) and air out the dirty laundry. Shining the light of day on things can only do good, even if it's uncomfortable for a while. Best of luck.
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Last edited by nycindie; 11-03-2011 at 08:54 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suziesue View Post

By this point Alan was very apologetic, and I was feeling guilty that he was feeling bad about it (although still glad I bought it up), so we just changed the subject and moved on.

So, feeling pretty confused I called Bridget to ask her about it, and she said that it was because she cared about me she was 'watching out for me'. She said it was 'unfair' of Alan not to give me a time in advance, or to talk to me so late (I'm sure I've chatted to her just as late on occasion!), and that the agreement thing was 'in my interest', even if I didn't explicitly know about it.

I then asked her if the three-way situation was making her unhappy or jealous, and she said there were some things that she felt she 'didn't have the right to ask for'. I asked her if she would be happier if Alan and I weren't perusing a relationship with each other, but she refused to answer the question.

So right now I'm feeling in a bit of a mess. I feel guilty that I may have been hurting Bridget by seeing Alan, but I don't want to stop seeing Alan (writing that makes me feel like a horribly selfish person). I also feel that Bridget has been being, er, manipulative, I guess? Its a bit of a stronger word than I mean really, just that she had been subtly (and probably not consciously) trying to control interactions between Alan and I, so I feel I can't trust her.
Yes that is a mess.
Don't feel guilty that Alan felt badly, of course you were right to bring it up. Operating from guilt is going to keep you from looking out for yourself and your needs and wants. YOU are not hurting Bridget by seeing Alan. If she is unhappy, she needs to be addressing it, with Alan, with her friends, and with you if she wants to discuss it with you. Leaving the door open for her to talk to you is one thing, but I think you have done that, and shouldn't bring it up again.

I want to say I see a possible parallel here- she misled Alan & manipulated the situation in an effort to "look out for you" You asking her if she would be happier if you and Alan weren't dating could easily lead to the same thing as you feel so guilty, you might start altering your behavior in order to give her "more" to try to be less of a "threat" to their relationship. Your motivations wouldn't be as selfish, but they could still be just as destructive to all of the relationships involved.

Be caring, but don't overly invest in trying to help her be honest with the issues she is having, that's work she has to be doing on her own volition.

I would be very clear that I appreciate that she cares about you, but you can and will look out for your needs directly with Alan. I'd probably say that I more or less insist she not communicate with him about what she thinks you'd want unless you've actually stated such, and said you are OK with her sharing your conversation (truthfully, her telling Alan what she thinks you want from your private talks with her could be just as much of a privacy violation as you seeing what their text messages were).

I would remind her that her ideas about what is fair/unfair, right/wrong for HER and her relationships is not what is necessarily how you feel about your relationships, and that you will make your own decisions. I think all that can be said lovingly and kindly while still drawing firm boundaries.

Hmm, not sure that was very succinct, but I do hope you see that if something bothers you (enough to bring it up on a forum looking for advice even!) That you should bring it up, and not worry that you're making a fuss out of nothing. Pay attention to your instincts!
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  #19  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:43 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by suziesue View Post
I then asked her if the three-way situation was making her unhappy or jealous, and she said there were some things that she felt she 'didn't have the right to ask for'. I asked her if she would be happier if Alan and I weren't perusing a relationship with each other, but she refused to answer the question.

If I were you I would encourage Alan to find out from her what needs she's not expressing, what she feels she doesn't have a right to ask. There may be some fairly simple changes that could be made to make her more comfortable, or there could be deeper problems, but either way getting it out in the open will be the best way to keep this sneaky stuff from happening again. If you think she'd not take it poorly, you could also tell her that you've encouraged him to bring it up and that of course it's their relationship to sort out but that you want to find a way to make this work for everyone involved.

So right now I'm feeling in a bit of a mess. I feel guilty that I may have been hurting Bridget by seeing Alan, but I don't want to stop seeing Alan (writing that makes me feel like a horribly selfish person). I also feel that Bridget has been being, er, manipulative, I guess? Its a bit of a stronger word than I mean really, just that she had been subtly (and probably not consciously) trying to control interactions between Alan and I, so I feel I can't trust her.
It makes sense to feel bad about it... after all, what jerk would *want* to be the cause of stride between their SO and metamour?... but don't fall into the trap of assuming that because she feels bad you did something wrong. Guilt's not called for here. And yes, she was being manipultative, I think there are too many examples there to claim it was unconscious, and her trying to turn things around and guilt you over looking at the messages when it was Alan showing them to you, and when they were about you, just confirms the pattern of manipulation. Hopefully it's something she can get past by being honest about the difficulties she's having. Good on you for delving into this situation and exposing the real problem rather than just letting something slide that was making you uncomfortable.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2011, 08:05 PM
suziesue suziesue is offline
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However, you then second-guess yourself - why feel guilty about bringing up something like this where a deception has been uncovered? It was not your fault that he felt "bad" or weird about what happened.
To clarify, the guilt was about him apologizing profusely to me for something that I didn't feel he could have done any differently. I told him it was ok and moved on from the subject because I didn't want him to blame himself for something that wasn't his fault.

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What stands out to me, though, is that you are wondering if your relationship with Alan is messing this up with him and Bridget. It sounds like you thought that you should step back from seeing Alan if she is uncomfortable. But why? That is sort of saying that her relationship with him takes precedence over your relationship with him.
I see what you are saying with this, but its not really about precedence, or who relationship is more important in my head. It's a feeling of, 'if I am hurting someone I care about by doing X, then I should stop X'.

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It sounds to me like all three of you would benefit from having a group discussion (on video I guess) and air out the dirty laundry. Shining the light of day on things can only do good, even if it's uncomfortable for a while. Best of luck.
I think you are right. I'll try to arrange this.
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