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  #11  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:11 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I'd want to know why the change....In fact I'd have to know the reason for the change.... I may have trust issues...ok I do have trust issues but just don't see most men having had a strong position on a topic like this just out of blue saying ....honey ya know what.... why don't you go find yourself a nice boyfriend to fuck .... you deserve it ....I know I know I was against it but I woke up today and I've changed my mind.
Yes, it's not so much that I don't trust him as I don't understand his motivation, and if it is more one of resigned self-sacrifice than a sincere regard for my well being, of course I can't go there. Although both elements are always in the balance, aren't they?
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:26 PM
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Clear that I shouldn't, you mean? Or that he doesn't want to know about it if I do?
Seems clear to me, that he says the choice is yours, but expect repercussions. He isn`t wanting to control you, but there could very well be a end of the marriage due to it, when the time is right.

I`d now say the opposite of what I said earlier.

Things to figure out, (before poly dalliances) might be :

- Why is he married to you ? Out of obligation ? That needs nailed down.

- Does he object to feelings, or sex, or both with another person ?

- What about it, would change his feelings toward you ? If, it`s a 'respect' issue,....and he loses respect for you, due to his personal beliefs,..well, you have a very tough road ahead.

- If he is against it, as it forces him to confront his libido-issues and why things are the way they are,..well, you might have some hope.

It`s a tough spot to be in, with no easy answers, or soft and fluffy outcomes. Reconcile that now.
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:29 PM
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Clear that I shouldn't, you mean? Or that he doesn't want to know about it if I do?
Doesnt want to know about it if you do. DADT. Dont ask dont tell.

As far as him leaving you in 13 years, who knows what will happen by then? If youre truly poly, I say go for it!
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2011, 07:13 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post

Things to figure out, (before poly dalliances) might be :

- Why is he married to you ? Out of obligation ? That needs nailed down.

- Does he object to feelings, or sex, or both with another person ?

- What about it, would change his feelings toward you ? If, it`s a 'respect' issue,....and he loses respect for you, due to his personal beliefs,..well, you have a very tough road ahead.

- If he is against it, as it forces him to confront his libido-issues and why things are the way they are,..well, you might have some hope.
These are great questions, some of which we have talked about a lot. I suspect that the reasons he married me (my personal qualities, the fact that he gave me his virginity, his being ready at that time in life to get married) are not the same as the reasons he wants to stay married (our children, our reputations, the turmoil of a split, and a respect, maybe a fondness, for the years we have shared). He is very devoted in every sense of the word, including the sense of feeling obligated to stand by me. I am beginning to think he would not have married me if he had known then that I would be like this now -interested in other men, valuing all my social relationships all much as I do, and not being willing to sacrifice my wants and desires for the sake of my children. (I'm willing to tuck them in bed before I go dancing, but I'm not willing to give up dancing to devote all my energy to parenting, for example. I've had to persuade him that getting a babysitter so we can both go out is not slacking off as parents.)

He's a very logical, scientific man. He doesn't "object" to my feelings for other men, but recognizes that he can't control them. He's not a jealous man at all. He has a fear of losing me, and more specifically, our children, if I am tempted away by another man. For me, sexual desire and the desire to share a household with someone are like apples and oranges, but for him they have never been separate, so I understand his fear. He has a fear of STDs but that can clearly be worked around. He worries the situation would impact our children negatively, even while recognizing and appreciating the wonderful relationships between my daughters and one of these men. And then the big one, impropriety. If others found out, they would judge is. Maybe he'd look inadequate and foolish, and I'd look immoral and selfish. And maybe he'd believe it.

As for his libido, it's an odd problem. He's very sexually satisfying for me. Typical sex for us involves several orgasms for me, and sometimes repeat performances for him. I can turn him on just by saying "let's have sex." I'm not sure if there's a physical issue for him at all. It's just that in between, he doesn't think about it, and that in between time can stretch and stretch. 7 weeks ago he got a vasectomy, and he's supposed to submit a semen sample for testing after 15 ejaculations. Keeping count with him has led me to the discovery that even when we don't have sex for a week or two, he rarely even masturbates. Last count he was at 5 (4 with me, one alone). I've probably given myself that many in the past 3 days. I guess I'd say he loves sex, but he doesn't need sex. I do. I am just so tired of trying to put myself in the mood without his help.
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2011, 05:11 AM
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It sounds to me like his concerns are no different than most people just starting to figure out poly. There are plenty of people who get through that and come to realize that usually it is just fine. Marriages end for various reasons... mostly for other reasons than poly from what I know.

I think I would copy and paste, or get him to read this thread. I think you spell out quite well what is going on for you and what your confusion and concern is. Maybe another method of communicating or letting him know that you are so concerned that you are getting advice and support elsewhere will entice him to sit up and take note. It could be the catalyst that you are looking for.
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2011, 04:23 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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We had a huge conversation about this last night. I had misunderstood so much, including his meaning two years ago when he refused to answer whether he minded me kissing someone else or not. He minds all of it. It all hurts him. He considers all of it wrong. His "Do what you like" was a big fat "I give up on you."

He's still not telling me not to do what I like, but he says I have to balance the pleasure I get against the hurt he would feel and decide for myself. When I think about it that way -how much pleasure I get from a kiss -it seems clearly not worth it. But I feel now like it's up to me, the sexual deviant in the relationship, to learn to squelch my immoral impulses and live l like a normal decent person if I want to avoid causing my husband pain. (This is how I imagine it looks in his eyes.)

Perhaps it is a rare slice of humanity on these boards, who come here to confront and address the reasons for the pain -jealousies, fears, etc. in hopes of helping find middle ground with partners who want to love others. For my husband, his pain is an appropriate response, and my desire to question it and understand it and hopefully resolve it so that I can love others without causing it, is to him an unreasonable pressure. He feels I will never relent on the subject; thus his "Do what you like" surrender. I can love others and hurt him, or I can be a good wife. My choice.

I honestly don't mind not having sex with anyone else for the rest of my life, but I do love others, and I hate feeling wrong in his eyes for feeling this way. When he tried to kiss and caress me as we ended our conversation, all I could feel was a terrible guilt for knowing that I want kisses and caresses from the other men I love as well. For the first time, I'm actually wondering if we'd be better off not married. I'm not sure if I can live happily until the day I die with a man who sees a whole big part of who I am as indecent. Or if he can live happily with a wife like me.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:25 PM
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There is nothing wrong with the way you feel. I feel as you do and have agreed with Mono not to pursue other men sexually. I have a non-sexual boyfriend as a result and you know? I am just fine with that. I have found that it is the close emotional bond I was craving, not the sex. Part of that for me is that I get all my sexual needs met quite nicely and don't want/need for any more. It sounds like this is where you and I differ as you have said you are not.

I wonder if it is possible that you two could work on your sex life together. If he thinks that sex outside of marriage is wrong and would not stay with you if you ventured into sexual relationships with others then how would he feel about working on your sex life and you having close relationships with the other men in your life? Maybe there is a chance that you and he could find a compromise.

I have written a lot here about compromise as a never ending teetor-totter of attempting to find a boundary agreement that works for both, but really can never be reached. Sometimes it is just like that and one has to let go of ever feeling entirely comfortable with the situation. It is possible to do that but it takes easing up slowly to the ever illusive boundary and seeing what results.

For me the illusive boundary was crossed when I got to close to Leo and Mono had a really hard time with it. He saw it as cheating, and to me it was within the bounds, just barely. We now know that the boundary was in a different place than I realized, but we are okay and it was a learning experience. Not worth ending everything... we decided to take it as a learning experience and move on.... it is possible to do that.

Anyway, I wrote a lot about that last year in my blog around Dec 2010 if you want to read about it... please PM if you want too I'm not saying that you shouldn't be done with this situation and move on, because I still see some options... if you and he love each other, work well together and are willing to do some work... at the end of the day I would not begrudge your choice to stay or go, just so you know. I know all too well how much work it is that is before you and ending your marriage is also a viable option.
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:37 PM
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In reading this entire thread I am not surprised of your recent developments. Why? Because I ask myself these types of questions constantly from your hubby's perspective. A little explanation: There are a lot of times where I feel I would be perfectly good with RP becoming sexual with a friend of ours (her non-sexual boyfriend Leo). I have certain sexual concerns around his swinger activities and his wife's sexual behavior but those could be managed).

When I have these thoughts I have to look very deep as to why I am feeling this way because I have felt this way with my ex-wife. Back then it was because I had lost intimate connection and did not value her sexuality the same way I once did. I wasn't intimately invested in her the way I once was.

I have to ask myself why I am feeling ok with the idea - is it because I truly am ok or because I no longer value the relationship the same way I once did? Am I truly invested in maintaining an intimate connection with her? Am I a ok with it because I am so in love with her or because I feel the relationship is going to morph into something less connected anyway? Maybe...and just maybe, I am looking for a way out subconsciously? That would be the worst - setting her up to create a situation where I could use it to change the nature of our relationship. Would I be giving myself justification to do things I normally wouldn't? I've done this in the past and have to be watchful of myself for this.

In the event that they did become intimate, that is all I would want to know. I wouldn't want to know what they do, when they do it, or see any indication of their new found intimacy. I get the don't ask don't tell appeal for people. If I put myself into the situation of being in an open relationship it would likely not be the kind where partners need to know each other or even be aware of what goes on as long as people are safe.

So I guess I don't have words of advice really..just a perspective.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2011, 08:06 PM
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I'm confused. In one post, did you say he said you could pursue other men. Then you say he wants a divorce if you do?

He should be able, as an adult, to tell you if he consents to you having other partners whether or not he knows their identities and other detail. It sounds like you are trying to guess what he wants? Has he come out and given one clear opinion?
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2011, 08:10 PM
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Thanks for these thoughts. A difficulty that arises when it comes to my emotional bond with both of these other men is that they live far away (2 hrs and 5 hrs drive). For the past six months I've really wanted to spend time with the one 2 hrs away, who has known me for half my life. I've been going through some tough times and he's exactly the person I want to talk to about it, since he is both close, in knowing me so well, and distant, in being separate from my day to day life. We do talk on the phone weekly and have had a couple of times where we've crossed paths in situations where we were surrounded with other friends or family, but I'd like to just have a few uninterrupted hours in person for his special brand of heart to heart talks that have helped me understand myself better over all the years I've known him (my entire adult life). My husband doesn't want me to go visit him. It's not proper. For 20 years we've successfully refrained from having sex with each other, and now I'm also willing (with sadness) to forgo the kisses, but it seems even the friendship has to be limited. I'm not sure I can accept this.

There doesn't seem to be any compromising going on. I guess my husband feels like he is already giving in by having a wife who loves other men, and it's my job to give in by not being close to them. Or I get close, and he gets hurt, and it's my fault for making that choice. I want to believe that his reaction is his own choice, and that if it turns out to be pain (jealousy, fear, etc.) we can stop to figure that out, but he is simple not open to exploring it. His feelings are the "right" ones in this situation, and mine are part of being raised in this loose American culture by twice divorced parents -I'm pathological (as is everyone who feels like I do, so reading the other stories here won't help him).

What to do? I love him but my very nature causes him pain!
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