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  #21  
Old 10-24-2011, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
We don`t have any idea, if this OP let NRE get to him in the same fashion, during the dating, as he is letting it get to him now. What if his time and attention was going all to the Bff ?
What if the bff was doing the same thing ?
What if the both kinda mangled this themselves, and didn`t see the warning signs before the wife called a veto ? What if she was trying to talk him through his nre for 4,5,6 months, before calling it quits ?
Of course, we're only seeing one side, but I don't think anyone here is too off-base. He said that he and her bff had realized over the course of three years that they were attracted to each other. Seven months ago, he talked to his wife about it, she gave the go-ahead, and they had a "couple of dates." Three months after saying she was okay with it, she said NO MORE.

Yet, when she wanted to have an additional relationship eight years ago, he struggled, read about it, visited a counselor, and gave his blessing - and then agonized for the first two years about it. Yet, he did not call it off. He said he probably wouldn't have married her if she was poly from the beginning, probably because in hindsight he sees how much difficulty he had weathered to make sure she was happy.

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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
- The wife has had NO problem in the past with the husband and bff hanging around each other, and developing a close friendship. 'Something happened on the way to heaven' when the relationship got physical.
We don't know how far his relationship with the bff has gone. He said it's only been a few dates. It's possible they still haven't been physical at all.

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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
Judging by this op`s lack-a-daisy attitude towards his wife, maybe the wife is struggling, as it seems he may like the shiny new bff sexually,...much better.
Obviously the wife is struggling, but it sounds like she didn't give it much of a chance to try and learn anything from that struggle. Are you saying, if he was wrapped up in NRE, that that should always be dealt with by calling a full stop to everything? I think other solutions would come before such a decree!

I also don't see how he could be construed as lackadaisical toward his wife, after how he described his struggles, how glad he is that they're in counseling even though he wonders if it's too late, and that he feels guilty about wanting to leave. He's invested a lot, and say that he does still love her but feels taken advantage of. Letting go of the girlfriend is "eating him up," because he loves her, too! He is torn; that is not lackadaisical.

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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
The only fact, is the OP has said himself, he would rather be monogamous with the bff, then monogamous with the wife. Gee, I wonder why the wife is panicking ? She probably felt this coming all along.
Well, no, he's said more than that. Plus he didn't say that he definitively wants a mono relationship with the bff (if she would be willing); he is being truthful enough to say that he's wondering about it. He said he's "starting to think that a purely monogamous relationship with my wife's friend would leave me more fulfilled in the long-term." Obviously he feels he's been yanked around a lot and now thinks that maybe following the path of least resistance could bring him more satisfaction. I think anyone here can agree that polyamory isn't always easy. I don't think his comment about considering leaving the marriage and being mono with the bff means anything more than the fact that he's just grasping at possible solutions.

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This bff and wife have supposedly been friends since childhood. She has had a relationship LONGER with her bff then she has with her husband. This could totally be about her losing her relationship with the bff, not so much her fears over her husband.
Well, I don't necessarily see how that makes her friendship with this woman more precious than anything else, but even so, like I said, relationships change. People change. Things don't always stay the same and shouldn't be expected to. Obviously, the bff didn't revoke her friendship when she started dating her husband, so losing the friendship is a fear but not a reality. I would think that if she loves her bff, who she's known all these years, she wouldn't refuse to consider her bff's happiness before wanting to hold onto a romantic notion about what lifelong friends are supposed to be. She wants the bff to stay in a particular role in her life, and it's a bit unreasonable and unrealistic to think it has to only be what she wants it to be -- or not to do the emotional work on handling the fact that it's changed.

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The flippant attitude in the advice makes me grateful I only know some of you on a message board.
Who was being flippant? I don't know about anyone else, but I gave my response much thought and careful consideration, and edited it several times. So, I wasn't being flippant at all, and I don't think any of the other posters to this thread were. Did the responses somehow strike a nerve with you?
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Last edited by nycindie; 10-24-2011 at 04:49 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-24-2011, 04:49 PM
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.

Who was being flippant? I don't know about anyone else, but I gave my response much thought and careful consideration, and edited it several times. So, I wasn't being flippant at all, and I don't think any of the other posters to this thread were. Did the responses somehow strike a nerve with you?
I wasn't being flippant I was trying my best to put myself in all situations and think what I would do. And am really concerned/interested to see how this turns out.
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2011, 05:53 PM
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Didn`t strike a nerve in the sense you may/may not think. In fact, I think I`m the minority who isn`t projecting. I don't have any bff/husband or more, 'relationship issues', and I haven`t been in their place. The only 'nerve' that could be struck ( more of a eye-rolling) is how people tend to jump on band-wagons here. The poly 'theory' and the poly in actual practice... seem to be a far cry from each other.

Its also a bit unrealistic to think you get everything the way you want. He wants the best friend. It may or may not happen.
He does not have a 'right' to the bff anymore then she has a right to tell him not to. This is a true struggle,..it does not appear to be the type of scenario you decide who is 'wrong' and who is 'right'.

Common sense says, if you know someone cherished from childhood, you are GOING to put up a fight to keep them, if they are worth something to you. If they have positively influenced your life, however much you enjoy that, to see it yanked away, altered or changed, is going to be a great struggle. To see someone else you love, be the cause of that, would,..I imagine cause a lot of turmoil.

Most poly problems start with the insecurity of watching a loved one, want to be with someone else. So the worries are two-fold. A) fear of losing loved one. B) Fear of newcomer being evil/awful, whatever.

His wife has to deal with MORE, not less. Due to the tangling of relationships, she has a lot more to work through. There are more dynamics going on. I think she deserves a bit more compassion then that being given here .
The FLIPPANT ( towards her, not towards him) attitude, of 'Tell wifey she is selfish and to get over it.' brought on my post.

He says he 'struggled' really ? How so ?,..He quotes things his wife said, but doesn't give details on what kind of struggles he went through. Things he said, or things he did during those struggles, is politely washed over. I don't have anything against the op, he 'sounds like' a ok guy. But she also 'sounds like' a ok wife. Nobody is perfect, and nobody seems to be at fault here. It seems a time of struggle and transition.

I see both sides. I feel compassion for both. I am only 'calling' the op on some things said, because he is the one posting. Also as a way to add some leverage to the lop-sided comments.
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2011, 06:24 PM
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Okay, I didn't mean to imply that you had something similar going on when I asked if it struck a nerve. But obviously some answers here rubbed you the wrong way.

No one, I recall, has said she just has to get over it, either. I think anyone who has said she is being selfish or controlling or whatever, has also said she has some work to do. Of course, he does, too! Yes, it does seem a time of struggle and transition for both of them.

It would be good to hear from his wife, and also get some more details from the OP.
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  #25  
Old 10-24-2011, 07:35 PM
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No one, I recall, has said she just has to get over it, either. I think anyone who has said she is being selfish or controlling or whatever, has also said she has some work to do. Of course, he does, too! Yes, it does seem a time of struggle and transition for both of them.

It would be good to hear from his wife, and also get some more details from the OP.
Yes, my suggestion was that she needs to look at where her fears are coming from instead of her kneejerk "i don't like it make it stop" reaction. I hardly see this as being any different advice than is given to most people here when beginning poly relationships (especially with already established couples).

He did the work, now it's her turn. Not that they will move at the same rate, and each person has their own issues to deal with, but not even trying because it's hard seems a bit weak when your partner has spent two years doing it for you.

And of course, hearing the wife's POV is definitely a bonus, as always. One sided only goes so far, and maybe there were other issues of NRE or timing, etc that were an issue.
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  #26  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:47 PM
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Okay, I didn't mean to imply that you had something similar going on when I asked if it struck a nerve. But obviously some answers here rubbed you the wrong way.

No one, I recall, has said she just has to get over it, either. I think anyone who has said she is being selfish or controlling or whatever, has also said she has some work to do. Of course, he does, too! Yes, it does seem a time of struggle and transition for both of them.

It would be good to hear from his wife, and also get some more details from the OP.
I was clear, the lop-sided advice made me roll my eyes. Still does. *shrug* Just one of those things.

Even reading Minxxa`s answer:
'Not even trying, because its hard, seems weak,..'

Even the OP says his wife is 'trying' . A couple of times.

*He* said he doesn`t have high hopes.


and lets not pick flyshit out of the pepper-jar, when people make comments like :

'The fact is, she needs to man up ...'

'She is having difficulty with her feelings about it, she should deal with them, like you did, and not be a fucking princess about it.'

That is pretty much telling her that because she is poly, she needs to STFU and get over it. She does need to find a spot where she can process this in a way that is positive.
Lets not forget the title of this thread ? MONO man and POLY wife. The reference to him choosing the bff over his wife, isn`t exactly going to help the wife`s issues.

Force, ultimatums, and pressure isn`t the way.
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  #27  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:48 PM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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A possible different take on this:

NeedsMoreDrama, it sounds like you have resented your wife for 8 years, ever since she first told you she wanted to explore being poly. The nicest thing you can say about her now is that she has an "amicable demeanor." Ouch.

You are "apathetic" to her poly relationships? That sounds like you don't care much about her at all. I know you said you wanted her to be happy...but it sounds like the only way you could make peace with her poly nature is by turning off your feelings for her.

You sound a little angry that she's poly. You wish she had told you she was poly to begin with [even though she probably didn't know she was poly yet!] so you could have just stayed platonic friends instead of marrying her. Again, ouch. It sounds like your feelings for her died a long time ago.

Actually, I think you transferred your feelings for her onto this other nice woman who happened to be in your lives--her sister-like best friend. I wonder if the main thing you like about the best friend is that she's NOT poly? (Maybe she's even like a version of your wife, just NOT poly).

Here's a possible reason why your wife wanted you to end the relationship with her best friend: your wife can sense that deep down, you are mono--meaning you are totally incapable of loving more than one person at the same time. So she could see you falling for her friend, and she knew it meant you were done loving her, because that seems to be how love works for mono people.

Your wife might not be quite conscious that she feels this way--maybe she convinced herself that her discomfort came from the thought of losing her best friend since childhood, or sharing a lover with a sister-like friend, or whatever. But I think her instincts were right--something about your relationship with her best friend bothered her deeply.

I don't think it was selfish of her to ask you to end that relationship. But no, you didn't have to agree to it. Your wife doesn't own you or your feelings.

But is it fair to ask her to accept your relationship with someone else--when, for you (UNLIKE for your wife), loving someone else really DOES mean you love your wife less?

This might be a case where amicable divorce is the best option (regardless of whether you end up with the best friend or not). But yes, that will hurt your wife--because she has kept on loving you for the past 8 years, while your feelings for her have disappeared.

Have you been honest with her about the fact that you don't really have feelings for her any more?

You can still love your wife as a friend and be an equal partner in raising your daughter together--but perhaps as a divorced couple.
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:50 PM
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Good Post Meera.
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
and lets not pick flyshit out of the pepper-jar, when people make comments like :

'The fact is, she needs to man up ...'

'She is having difficulty with her feelings about it, she should deal with them, like you did, and not be a fucking princess about it.'

That is pretty much telling her that because she is poly, she needs to STFU and get over it.
Oh, lordy, SourGirl, I am really not trying to argue with you but since I was the one who wrote one of the lines you quoted, I feel the need to restate what I meant. If you think I was saying, "Shut the fuck up and get over it," then obviously I wasn't clear. That statement has been complete misconstrued by you and I don't want the OP to read it the same way.

I just think that, if the wife is having difficulty with the OP's relationship with the gf/bff, then she has some personal, inner work to do on understanding and coming to terms with her feelings (hence the "deal with them" part of my comment) rather than telling them to stop being involved (the "fucking princess" part). That was far from "shut up and get over it," in my mind.

Of course, we only have what he wrote here to go on, but it seems like she hasn't made an effort to examine and deal with her feelings about it, for very long. It sounds like it got to be too much for her and she shut them down. But I am of the mind that people need to accept responsibility for their choices, and if she chose polyamory and he went with it, struggled for several years about it, why doesn't she give him the same effort? Why does she think she has a right to tell him what to do in his other relationship just because she's known the woman since she was a child? This makes no sense to me. He embarked on a relationship with her bff after talking to her about it; she said, okay, go for it. Why does she get to take that back just because she's uncomfortable? His relationship with another person is his relationship, not hers.

I also see a lot of good stuff in what MeeraReed posted.
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Last edited by nycindie; 10-24-2011 at 09:20 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:30 PM
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Even the OP says his wife is 'trying' . A couple of times..
He said his wife is in therapy with him and therefore putting in the effort with their marriage. In regards to dealing with his relationship with the BFF, she agreed to them dating, allowed them to have a couple of dates, then said no it's too wierd (all in about a 3 month period) That's not trying. That's hitting the first wall of the Icks and calling it quits.

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That is pretty much telling her that because she is poly, she needs to STFU and get over it.
No, this is saying that this can be tough, and quitting at the first sign of discomfort instead of working through it isn't fair to your spouse who worked his ass off to make it work when it was YOU in the relationship.

I'm sorry the term "man up" was taken that way. To me, it means stop reacting completely emotionally, put on the big girl panties, and figure out what's up. To me that's not anywhere near shut the fuck up.


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She does need to find a spot where she can process this in a way that is positive.
Which is what I said... she needs to think about why she's freaking out and get to the bottom of the issues. Maybe she would need them to slow down (well, stop I guess since you can't hardly slow down from a couple of dates), in order to give her the space to do that. But instead she panicked and pulled the plug, saying no more.

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Lets not forget the title of this thread ? MONO man and POLY wife. The reference to him choosing the bff over his wife, isn`t exactly going to help the wife`s issues.

Force, ultimatums, and pressure isn`t the way.
Very true that force and ultimatums and pressure are not the way.

I reread the original post... and the reason he said he is feeling less for his wife (though he loves her) is because he feels the relationship has been completely lopsided. He did the work and made it possible for her to have that relationship, thinking that would be that. And then here comes someone and he finally "sees" what she means... having feelings for someone else... and his wife is not (yet anyway) willing to do the same work or make the same changes for him.

Of course he's upset and resentful!!

And yeah, the comment about being mono with the BFF won't help, but maybe he's just pissed off. He gets the spiel that poly is so great, open loving relationships and he does the work to accept it and it turns out it's only OK for her, not him. (I'm not saying she actually THINKS this, but that's how she's acting.)

Over the years I've seen this a few times (although usually the gender roles are reversed) where one partner brings the poly thing into the relationship because they fall in love, the people open their relationship and then some time down the road the other partner finds feelings for somebody and the original person gets thrown for a total loop and freaks out.

I'm not saying I don't understand it. I'm not saying she shouldn't feel her feelings. I'm saying she's reacting out of fear and in the process she's alienating her partner and creating resentment. There's nothing wrong with taking a time out, and asking for a pause in the action so that you can sort through stuff and get a handle on things.

The good point is that they are in couples therapy, which is awesome, so hopefully they can air all of the different points of view and, with a neutral party, get to see the other person's side of things. And all of our yammering will be moot anyway.

Last edited by Minxxa; 10-24-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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