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  #31  
Old 10-14-2011, 04:57 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Mags,

Oh, I completely know it can be done! I was in a similar position and I got out as well.

My point is, that not everybody is that strong. Or maybe has that much energy? Or they haven't gotten to the point where it's so bad they HAVE to do it. Or a million other things.

And the "reasons" for not leaving are in a way all just excuses not to have to take that step. If we pile up enough reasons we can't do it, we can stay, not have to change, feel the victim, justify our actions. :-/

He hasn't gotten to the point where he knows he has to leave. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but that's all on him. As an outside person, I'd stay the heck away from the whole situation because he needs to take the time and make an effort on his own behalf and the behalf of his kids right now, not self-soothe with sex from an outside partner so he doesn't have to think about or deal with it.

Just my opinion...
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  #32  
Old 10-14-2011, 05:14 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxxa View Post

He hasn't gotten to the point where he knows he has to leave. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but that's all on him. As an outside person, I'd stay the heck away from the whole situation because he needs to take the time and make an effort on his own behalf and the behalf of his kids right now, not self-soothe with sex from an outside partner so he doesn't have to think about or deal with it.

Just my opinion...
We're all full of opinions!

Yes, on the one hand she should (and says she has) decided to step back. I did that with J as well. He wasn't going to leave his wife... he decided her health insurance was more important than his own happiness.

OTOH (there's always another hand), X went on okc just looking for friends who were cool with transgender. He didn't even expect to find a woman who could love a cross-dresser. He needs open-minded queer or queer-friendly friends, but a lover who would get turned on by his gender? That meets and exceeds his hope. I feel I've already triggered some growth and hope in him from just iming with him.

Will it be enough to give him the courage to make changes? Time will tell. Transpeople need a lot of support, I've had firsthand experience with that with miss pixi. I know what I'm doing. Even if he wants only to be able to "dress" at home in private, I can support him finding the self love to find a way to do that. Even if he just wants to come over to my place, put on his skirt and stockings and watch Project Runway with me (or miss pixi and me).

Although today I did mention how it would be so fun to invite him to dinner with us and our LGBT friends, or take him to queer pride type events, transhealth conferences, etc., where there is no photo taking allowed, and people can use "scene names" to protect their anonymity.

He's got a Master's degree in writing. Today I encouraged him to compose an email to his wife, to get the ball rolling. Might be easier and more productive than just conversing and getting yelled at and disrespected, told how disgusting he is. He feels like he is dying on the inside. He's not really living, just existing.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

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me: Mags, female, pansexual, poly, 59, loving and living with
miss pixi, female, pansexual, poly, 37
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  #33  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:48 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Mags,

I think that being the person that can normalize someone, and even show them that they are sexually attractive is amazing! He's lucky to have found you. And hope that there are people out there for whom this is no big deal is probably something that was really needed.
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  #34  
Old 10-15-2011, 03:22 PM
Iloveyoutwo Iloveyoutwo is offline
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You've all made some really good points. I am pondering. Thank you.
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  #35  
Old 10-15-2011, 06:48 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Something I have learned, thanks to my poly nature and being with someone who is also poly, is that there is always strength and energy. No one dies from having to make a change in their life... in fact the bar is set higher in terms of energy and strength by making change I find. I have more strength and energy than I ever thought possible because I have pushed myself for a life that is always better than what I had. Keeping in mind all those I effect is important, but the bottom line for me is that if I am not content with what I have created then that also effects everyone in my life.
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  #36  
Old 10-15-2011, 09:14 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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My bf was my neighbor. I was friends with him and his wife. I saw firsthand how SHITTY she treated him. I tried and tried and tried to encourage her to be kind to him, to be forgiving, to be loving and tolerant and fucking CIVIL. She was filled with hatred towards him. I tried to help him come up with ways to soften her up -- give her flowers, say this, say that.... There was simply no hope. Once I finally saw there was no hope left, I stepped up and took care of the starving man! They had 4 kids and were financially strapped to the max. But he was so miserable, it was only a matter of time before he got the hell out.

She blames me for the break-up of their marriage. But I say, she should CREDIT me! She hated him!

I remember a stretch of time when I was nursing some resentments, being cold and distant to my husband. He said, "I NEED AFFECTION. I need love in my life. Do you WANT me to get a girlfriend??" (This was pre-poly, when I had NO idea whatsoever that that could actually be a possible solution, and even a good thing, haha!) I snapped out of my funk, and we became closer than we'd been in months.

I had a brief affair with a married man about 15 years ago. He said his marriage was "ok," but it was nothing like what we had. They completely separated and were planning a divorce, so he could be with me. He ended up going back to his wife, finally realizing how much she truly loved him (enough to let him go!) and how much he didn't want to lose her. It nearly fucking killed me, but I think the affair was the best thing that could have happened to them as a couple. They are still together and finally stopped taking each other for granted. (There's a lot to be said for marriages that are "ok.")

Sometimes cheating is justified. Sometimes it's the catalyst for change.

I'd be totally freaked out if my spouse had the power to run off to another country with my kids. So I can't blame your guy for trying to work around his situation.

Your husband sounds like a great guy. You both sound pretty cool to me.
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  #37  
Old 10-16-2011, 03:31 AM
Iloveyoutwo Iloveyoutwo is offline
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Thanks, Carma! My husband is the most awesome guy in my world, for sure! Thank you for your kind words. You know, I've been venting my frustrations regarding my bf to my husband and my sweet husband is the one encouraging me to be patient with the situation. I wish my bf could take all the gifts of love I have offered to him, but I will just try to be content with what he is able to take for now and hopefully some kind of good change will take place due to decisions he makes.
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  #38  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:17 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Well, iloveyou... sudden change in MY "relationship" (if you can even call it that) with my married man, X.

He couldn't talk to me all weekend, of course. He gets online at 9:01, immediately after getting to work, and IMs me.

Seems my input gave him so much courage and hope, he had an extra good therapy session on Friday and A Talk with his wife on Sunday. First real talk they've had since January.

He realizes he's been acting too much the victim, being too passive. It's time for him to tell her who he is, what he needs in a relationship, try and get her to understand it and maybe accept and (one hopes) celebrate it, instead of just wallowing in guilt and shame and self loathing and avoidance.

It was a difficult but good talk for them. He even ended up getting a hug at the end of it. He says they have a lot of good things they've built and it's time to see if he can be authentic, and get her on board and try to hold onto their relationship.

He didn't tell her he had an okc account or that he'd been talking to me.

His therapist said she didn't think he and I should meet. Of course, I am fine with just being friends and a support from the queer community, but he told me his lust for me is too great and he can't even risk meeting me. He's had too many sexual thoughts and feels he wouldn't be able to control himself.

But the worst part is, he told me he's not even going to chat with me anymore and just focus on his wife. I said, but you need queer friends. You are woefully uninformed about your own condition. How can you get her to understand when you don't even understand it all yourself? I could help with that.

But no. He doesn't even want to chat anymore. So I told him that hurt after all the long talks we've had. He said he was very sorry. I wished him luck and he said, You have my email. And he signed off.

sigh...
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. --Shaw

me: Mags, female, pansexual, poly, 59, loving and living with
miss pixi, female, pansexual, poly, 37
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  #39  
Old 10-17-2011, 04:01 PM
Iloveyoutwo Iloveyoutwo is offline
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I'm so sorry to hear this, Magdlyn. Hang in there.
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  #40  
Old 10-17-2011, 06:44 PM
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Derbylicious Derbylicious is offline
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I have to say this is gnawing at me...

Everything you know about his relationship with his wife and his past with other women comes from him. I wouldn't trust so blindly that things are that bad with his wife or that he hasn't cheated before with other women (there's even a chance that he's currently cheating with other women at the same time).

The thing about cheating is that it's lying. Lying leads to people getting hurt, maybe it will be his wife, maybe it will be you, maybe it will be him. The longer you let this go on the more likely you are to be hurt. It's safer for you in the long run to just maintain this as a friendship until when (and if) he's able to be in an open and honest relationship with you.
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