How to Raise the Issue of Polyamory

CamInGA

New member
I need some advice from you seasoned pros. I have been in a lesbian relationship with the same woman for 14 years. She has always been gay, I have never been with a woman prior to this relationship, but I have been married to a man before. The past 2-3 years, I have been craving the attention and affections of a man again. I love "Jean" with all my heart, but there is a certain emotional, sexual, psychological dynamic between opposite sexes that I miss.

We have a very close friend, Danny, who we call our husband. The three of us are best of friends, hang out together, are in the same business, etc. There is definately some sexual chemistry between Danny and myself. Jean has told me during our recent trials that if we break up, she would date Danny. He seems like he likes both of us for different reasons - I am adventurous, girly-girl, charismatic social butterfly while Jean is pragmatic, introverted and a workaholic. I see that he is attracted to both of us and respects our differences.

I really want to have a conversation with Jean about the possibility of us both dating Danny - but this is not the kind of conversation you have every day and I really don't what to say or where to begin. I am afraid she will feel threatened and just want to break up. However, I do feel a real need to spend time with a man. Part of that is because Jean works nights and I spend alot of time alone, and I would love the company of someone on those lonely nights.

Please feel free to offer any and all advice on how to proceed, or maybe you suggest I drop it entirely and just learn to be happy in my present circumstance. Whatever you have to say, I want to hear it!
 
Hullo and welcome!

...I have never been with a woman prior to this relationship, but I have been married to a man before. The past 2-3 years, I have been craving the attention and affections of a man again.

Do you self-ID as bi/pansexual? Have you communicated about the change in your feelings with Jean?

Jean has told me during our recent trials that if we break up, she would date Danny.

Seems Jean is okay with the concept of sexual fluidity herself. However, what have those recent trials been about? Are you solid again, or is there some lingering uncertainty or resentment there?

As anyone will tell you, a couple needs to have a solid foundation from where to explore poly (check tags for 'foundation' and maybe 'couples', too).

I really want to have a conversation with Jean about the possibility of us both dating Danny...

Why do you both need to date Danny? Couples dating single individuals is one of the hardest poly configs out there, and forcing your relationship into that mould before having any real poly experience is not a wise solution, especially if motivated by thoughts 'It's only fair', 'It will seem less threatening', etc.

However, I do feel a real need to spend time with a man. Part of that is because Jean works nights and I spend alot of time alone, and I would love the company of someone on those lonely nights.

These are two distinct motivations. 1. You want to explore your bisexual side. 2. You want more company to complement your and Jean's relationship. Without knowing anything much about your situation, I have to question if there are easier fixes to situation 2 than getting a new lover. If it's not Jean's company in specific you crave, but any company, why won't new friends or I dunno, volunteering activities do? If you live in a small town, I guess the nightlife is less active there.

All in all, there really is nothing bad about wanting more love and romance in your life. It doesn't signal anything's wrong or unfulfilling in your present relationship. Tons of bisexual folks are drawn to poly precisely because you don't have to choose.
 
Why do you both need to date Danny? Couples dating single individuals is one of the hardest poly configs out there, and forcing your relationship into that mould before having any real poly experience is not a wise solution, especially if motivated by thoughts 'It's only fair', 'It will seem less threatening', etc.
They already have a loving friendship with him, though just not sexual (yet ;)). Since that is there already, I think this situation has more potential to succeed than other couples who go out unicorn-hunting and hoping to find a complete stranger to make their fantasies come true.

My first reaction was the thought "how nice," when you described having a best friend like Danny in your life.

Have you searched in the forum much for similar threads? There are a number of ways to find stuff here, and there have been many threads on how to broach the subject of poly with a partner. You may want to look at the "sticky" topics. At the top of the Golden Nuggets forum is a thread called Master Threads Worth Reading. I did a search once for threads about how to bring up the topic of poly and related issues, which I posted there. Here it is:
Threads about determining if polyamory is for you, and how to discuss it .

The rest of that "Master Threads" topic has some other gems, too. Also do a tag search by either using the Advanced Search page and selecting Tags, or clicking on the Search button above where you will see a little drop-down box with a link to "Tag Search." That will take you to a page where the popular tags are listed (and a search box below).
 
Great Info

Thanks so much for the help.....since this is my first time on, I am still mastering what to do, etc. I will definately search past threads.

In answer to some of Black Unicorns questions - I would actually consider myself straight, but I happened to experiment one time with a woman and fell in love with her. But I have never been attracted to any other woman besides her, and don't really care to have a sexual relationship with any other woman. I prefer men.

I was troubled that you felt the couple dating a single has the worst chance for success of any option. But on the other hand, I can see how jealousies would arise out of this situation.

Recent trials have been about me wanting to date, and have a relationship with, a man. Plus, we rarely spend time together due to her work schedule and workaholism, and I get lonely and bored and seek out the company of others. Sometimes this is friends, but I have also gone out with guys I met online and tried to keep it secret, but she found out about it......big mess.

The company I am seeking is definately one of romance and affection. I have lots of friends, a job, etc. but I want someone to share my dreams with and have him want to help me fulfill them, and vice versa.

The more I think about this, the more I think it is a bad idea. I just have a feeling that even bringing up the subject will cause Jean tremendous insecurity since she already knows I am interested in seeing men. And I have not family and I am not ready to be all alone in the world, so I think I should let sleeping dogs lie and just suck it up.
 
I don't think anyone should have to "suck it up" and tolerate unhappiness just because someone else might choose to feel hurt about something that is important to them. You won't be doing anyone any good to hide out, and sublimate your true wants and needs, as it could just lead to your feeling sorry for yourself -- which, in turn, leads to resentment and possibly more cheating.

And the thing that BU was referring to about triads not working, was mostly about the idea that you and Jean have to be involved with Danny together. The reason that these sorts of situations don't usually work out is because there is usually an expectation that everyone will all love and be attracted to each other equally. Couples come here and at other poly sites and gatherings, to go "unicorn hunting." They expect to "bring in a girl" to be their "third" and add zip to their marriage, like some random car part that is expected to make their car run better or something. Obviously, that is unrealistic. There are good, healthy, working triads, but it take a dose of realism to make them that way. From reading other people's stories, it just never (okay, very rarely) pops into place automatically or very easily.

Your situation could work, and I believe I said why. You already know Danny and are best friends with him. Furthermore, Jean has expressed some sort of interest or fantasy about his potential as a partner. BUT if that's not really something she wants, and it is something Danny and you want, then consider being in a Vee. That is where three people are connected but not all having sex with each other. You would be the hinge of the Vee, and Danny and Jean would be the arms.

It sounds like you're pretty unhappy and dissatisfied, but you would rather hurt yourself by staying that way than risk going for your own happiness and possibly hurting Jean. But really, if you're not happy now, what do you have to lose by asking for what you want?

Have you ever talked about your attraction to Danny with him?
 
Last edited:
Nycindie - GREAT insight!!!

Thanks for so patiently talking with me about this and offering your insights. You know, I think you are right about the V structure - I cannot imagine Jean with any man, because she is a lifelong lesbian, shes never had sex with a man and says she never wants to. And I don't see Danny being attracted to her, because she is butch and he likes girly girls like me, though they are clearly very close friends. The V structure would definately work out better for all of us, and if Jean wants to be in a V with another woman, I'm OK with that, too.

I have not talked to Danny about my attraction to him. My underlying fear in all of this is losing people who I value so much - I have been with Jean for 14 years, we have alot of history, support, co-mingled business dealings, etc. and I worry about throwing all that away. Danny and Jean and I are in the process of buying another business together, so I am scared about not only losing my dearest friends, but also my livlihood.

I fear that if Danny and I verbalize what we are feeling through our flirting, phone conversations, etc. he will feel forced to choose between his incredibly close friendship with Jean and me. He tends to deal with stressful situation through joking, so the few times I have kind of steered the conversation toward that general ball park, he has made some kind of a joke about it and changed the subject. Clearly he does not want to discuss it and put these relationships at risk.

But he did tell me that he used to go to swing parties with one of his old girlfriends, and I know he is very open to whatever - we have all manner of friends gay, straight, bi, etc. and his attitude has always been live and let live. He's dated strippers, models, etc. and he is fine with all of it, anything goes. He has not had a steady girl in the 3 years I have known him. He has this one friend Karen he sleeps with from time to time when they go camping, which is about twice a year, and that's it. Karen is moving to NC this weekend so that will put an end to that.

I don't know why I feel like I'm being so selfish about my feelings about all of this....I think that is the root of my fears. I am putting my needs ahead of Jean's and Danny's, and ruining what is currently a workable situation - a super close friendship and business alliance.
 
I would actually consider myself straight, but I happened to experiment one time with a woman and fell in love with her. But I have never been attracted to any other woman besides her, and don't really care to have a sexual relationship with any other woman. I prefer men.

Wow. And yet you've been with this woman for 14 years! That's quite something.
 
Recent trials have been about me wanting to date, and have a relationship with, a man. Plus, we rarely spend time together due to her work schedule and workaholism, and I get lonely and bored and seek out the company of others. Sometimes this is friends, but I have also gone out with guys I met online and tried to keep it secret, but she found out about it......big mess.

One of the forum moderators, redpepper, went through something similar with her ex-wife - they are still friends, but the relationship as such didn't survive. Which might be very well what you are headed towards. Or not.

Is the specific problem that Jean fears she can't compete with a man, or that since you are actually straight, you will walk out on her? Would she be more open to the idea of you being with another woman? If her objection is both to polyamory and to you being with a man, you have a rough road in front of you.

How is your relationship with Jean at the moment? Is there sex, affection, intimacy? I think that before going to pursue anything further, you really need to ask her to cut her hours or get some other help for her workaholism. Otherwise you spending time with another partner could work only to distance the two of you further, since initially, you would suffer from a heady hormone rush that makes existing relationships, especially if there's little quality time spent together, pale in comparison.

Your history with cheating will make it very difficult for Jean to work through her insecurities if and when you decide to pursue another relationship. There's tons of resources on jealousy management available, but she will need feel secure enough to even want to work through this with you.

I wouldn't advice you to bring this up with Danny before you've discussed it with her. If she later finds out, it will be hard for her not to see it as the two of you going behind her back and ganging up on her with an ultimatum that she either sucks it up or loses you both.

Many couples have faced the same situation and come out on the other side, together or separately. If you do feel this overpowering desire for male companionship and have already cheated in the past, I think it's actually more unwise if you continue keeping this under wraps for much longer. Chances are another opportunity will arise and you will cheat again, and everyone will end up heart-broken.

Good luck to you all!
 
If you and Jean have a strong relationship, shouldn't it be able to survive you bringing up something unconventional and maybe even a little threatening, as long as you let her know that you love her and that she's your first priority, and that if she's open to considering the idea then you'll go slow and act with respect and honesty?

Just talk to her first, let her know you haven't said a word to Danny and won't until you and she have reached some sort of agreement. You've gotta start with trust. Find some good essays you like that she could read. www.MoreThanTwo.com is a great resource for that.
 
I was married to a woman for a time. She is still a huge love in my life. The love didn't end, our paths together did. We are still close.

I met my now husband the way you describe. I now live with him and another man and we raise our child together. I have another boyfriend and a girlfriend as well. Things change, growth happens, people come and go, but it isn't necessary to "get rid" of people because their journey is going on a different path. That is the beauty of poly relationships... they can last beyond the standard "we are together" "we are not together." Its all a matter of creating what works for everyone and actively loving/supporting/caring/living together for as long as you see it is beneficial.

I started talking to J (my then wife) before talking to PN about opening our marriage up as I felt I was non-monogamous. Her and I discussed what it could all mean, what we could gain, what we could lose. She agreed to me talking to him about it and I did one night with her there. He was in agreement that we should see how it went and we tried being a triad for a time. It turned out my wife was going along with it all for me and was pushing herself to be something she is not. On the night we all ended up in bed together she broke down and could not go forward with anything sexual so she said she would leave while we did... It wasn't a good idea. She was really distraught and angry afterwards. I don't even remember if PN and I actually had sex. I just remember the pain I had caused. It was baffling to me as she had agreed! Yet was visibly in more pain than I had ever seen her in before.

The anticipation of new love can over shadow reality more times than not. NRE (new relationship energy) is not the truth. Its an illusion. Respecting that as you go along and pacing yourself is what I recommend... talking about it as a first step is actually the easy part... what follows can never be the same. I learned that that night. I was in la la land and was not following my gut and not seeing how I was causing someone pain.

I would make sure you know exactly what you are giving up as there is no turning back once the "poly talk" has happened. He could just be fine as a good friend... or maybe not. It could be the best thing that ever happened to both of you or a disaster. The thing is that if you are even here asking how to talk about it, you have likely chosen to take the leap. Good luck! :)
 
Interesting Propositions

You are right, BU, that I should NOT talk to Danny first. I actually realized that myself last night when I was talking to him on the phone. Jean has been sick, and he was asking about her, how she was, etc (of course she was working so he couldn't call her himself) and I realized how much he does care about her and how immoral and unloyal it would make me look in his eyes to even bring this up to him. It might end up pushing the two of them together and leaving me out in the cold.

Also - I can see how your point about the hormone rush that comes with a new relationship can be threatening to the existing relationship. Because I do get butterflies when I talk to him or am around him, and I could see how, especially sexually, that I would prefer him to her and would want to be around him all the time, making Jean feel left out and jealous.

How are we now? Well, let's see, we are close, we talk about most things, definately have friends in common. Sexual intimacy is lacking because we have very different work schedules, bedtimes, etc. so there is not alot of opportunity. I enjoy flirting and touching Danny, in fact recently Jean commented on that saying it was "weird and obvious that I want to rub on him" (i.e. I gave him a massage because he was in pain, and then a few days later offered to do another one). So I realized I need to reign myself in a little in that regard.

I think I may just say to her that it is OK with me if she wants to date Danny, and see how she reacts. At the very least, it will open up the discussion.
 
I think I may just say to her that it is OK with me if she wants to date Danny, and see how she reacts. At the very least, it will open up the discussion.

That seems a little disingenuous if it's really you who wants to date him. Do you not think she'll pick up on that?

You might do better just saying you've been doing some reading and thinking about polyamory, and that Danny sprung to mind since you both have a bond with him, and aren't the possibilities interesting?
 
Great suggestion

I like this idea......great idea. Tonight is date night for Jean and I, so maybe the opportunity will present itself. If I ply her with a few beers it can't hurt, lol! That way it is just a discussion, no need to be defensive, etc. and I can get a feeling for what she thinks about the whole notion.
 
Thank You Red Pepper

I think the response from Red Pepper, who has actually lived through a similar situation, is very good and offers me alot of insights. Annabelle was also helpful, there are ways to raise the discussion in a non-threatening way, but mainly go slow and ALWAYS respect the feelings of the other person, don't let your own horny desires run all over someone else's soul.
 
It's funny how you've mentioned twice that you'd like Jean to date Paul, when you're the one that really wants to!

You'd feel awful if they started shagging and you weren't shagging him, wouldn't you?

Have you both openly fantasized to each other about having sex with him?

Leave out the labels, who is a lesbian, who is straight. You both like gay sex (even if you're apparently now in the throes of Lesbian Bed Death), you personally like het sex, and J's got the hots for Danny.

TALK ABOUT IT.
 
I think the response from Red Pepper, who has actually lived through a similar situation, is very good and offers me alot of insights. Annabelle was also helpful, there are ways to raise the discussion in a non-threatening way, but mainly go slow and ALWAYS respect the feelings of the other person, don't let your own horny desires run all over someone else's soul.

You've got it. :)
 
Need To Talk About It

I guess what strikes me about what all of you have said and advised is that it's not weird and unnatural to want to be with two people at once. I think you just talk about it and see if you can happen upon a solution that works for everyone. We all three truly love one another, so we should be able to come up with a solution that works for all parties concerned.

Magdlyn is right - I don't want Jean and Danny having sex on the side without me. All too often, we let labels dictate what our feelings should be about someone. Just because Jean has been a lifelong lesbian doesn't mean she couldn't develop feelings for Danny. I do know that our friend John told me that Jean is very threatened when I dance with guys, or show them any kind of attention, because she is insecure since I used to be with guys and feels I might leave her for one.

With her, I fear more that she would leave me for another woman. I rarely ever think about her being even attracted to men. I actually wouldn't mind if she wanted to sleep with someone else, just not someone that I also want to sleep with - I wouldn't like that at all!

I wish when the three of us were together we could somehow all talk about it, but it just seems like a strange kind of discussion to have. I hope the discussion between Jean and I will come sooner rather than later so this can be resolved......she and Danny are going to be together all weekend because I will be out of town working a trade show for work. Maybe if she and I could discuss it, then she could find an opportunity this weekend to talk to Danny about it. For some reason I think it will be easier for her to talk to him than me.
 
After reading more of your posts, I do think the fact that they own a business together is something to consider. On one hand, it sounds marvelous, like a movie - you are all there, working on something, you look up at him just as the light streams in the window just right, music plays as he looks at you, a wonderful love affair ensues. However, it could also turn out not so good, and jeopardize good friendships and a business arrangement. Could it be that you have developed a crush on him simply because of proximity? And the fact that you are craving some masculine energy and a good hard pounding? Maybe you're kind of focused on him just because he's always around and you're feeling lonely due to Jean's schedule.

It's possible that he is the totally wrong person to pursue anything with, even though he may be flirty with you. Some people push boundaries with others they feel they can never have (because of your relationship with Jean). He has changed the subject whenever you make humorous remarks that could have led to a discussion about getting involved, he's buying a biz with Jean, and he's not had a relationship for three years. The last part is the biggest red flag for me. He may not be the best candidate for you to get involved with.

I think, though, that you need to discuss opening your relationship with Jean, without suggesting him as a possibility right away. However you word it that you want to also be with a man, see what she says first before you bring up Danny.
 
Last edited:
I Never Thought About That.....

That's true, he is in close proximity and that could be the reason for the attraction. We spend alot of time together, know each other very well, etc. so it is logical that he is the object of my affection. It's certainly going to be a disaster if the three of us go into business and then this dating thing doesn't work, who leaves, etc?

The way the business thing is shaking out, he and I are going to be doing alot of it ourselves. It's about 1.5 hours away, Jean has to run the other business here locally so she will be around occassionally on weekends, but alot of it is Danny and I doing it alone. I can't help but feel if the opportunity presented itself, things might happen, and it would be better for it to all be out in the open.

He is just such a good, nice person, a true southern gentleman with exceptional morals, and I think out of respect for my relationship with Jean he probably would put the brakes on something before it went too far, but then it would just be awkward between us.

In some ways, it would be better for me to see a man she doesn't know. Then the jealousies, etc. wouldn't be quite as personal.
 
Back
Top