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Old 10-09-2011, 11:51 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Default Physical intimacy with friends

Below is a statement from another thread, and my response. I would really appreciate feedback.

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Quote:
I have always needed companionship and deep friendships and can't seem to manage that without it becoming a relationship of partnership. Variety is part of that I guess.
This really struck true for me. I was talking about this with someone I am developing a close friendship with. I think it's the reason I don't have a lot of female friends, too. I inevitably end of falling for them in some way or another, and that's not cool for them. With men, the chances are much better they would be interested.

It's something I'm struggling with, really. Why must everything move toward a partnership? Is this some sort of problem I have, not being able to draw those neat little boxes for friends vs loves and actually keep everyone in their boxes?

Because for my true friends, I've already shared so much of myself, and they theirselves, how can I not want to see where that could go with physical intimacy? It's just one more way to bring you closer together, to show your love. Is that a bad thing?
To clarify, I don't mean making relationships with these people in the typical sense, like bf/gf. Just friends, with whom you also have sex, because it seems a natural compliment to your emotional intimacy.

I know I'm not expressing myself as well as I could, but hopefully enough of you get the gist and can help me work through this.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:16 PM
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This is something I have sort of struggled with. Or, well, don't know if it's a big problem or anything, but I can't really make those boxes either, at least not ones I would completely trust. Often, if I share a really intimate connection with a friend, I feel there is sexual connection, too. There are some exceptions, I have a few completely platonic friends. But for me, I guess sexual intimacy is a really natural part of intimacy, and I feel like I want to share it (even as I don't always do that for various reasons).

I seriously have no advice to offer, though.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:44 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Hey TP,

I think it's great that you are as sex positive as you are. It's a rare thing.
I think the reason it might be a concern is that not everyone else is as comfortable as you. Sex can complicate things just because, as we hear here a lot, sometimes someone is not as into the other person as they wished. Especially sexually. Just not compatible sometimes in bed.
That then puts a strain on what would otherwise be a great friendship. There's always this "threat" of sex hanging over their heads. Not wanting to hurt someone's feelings etc.

So it's a risk. You hop in the sack together and it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't - the majority of people are too uncomfortable to discuss that and up goes the wall. And a friendship often spoiled.

Not a lot of people are sex comfortable enough to just sit down and say " I love you to death as a friend but sexually we aren't a match" Fragile egos being what they are.

Make sense ?

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Old 10-09-2011, 02:48 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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This is definitely true for me too. I've wondered -- do I find my friends attractive because I love them as friends, or because I subconsciously pick hot friends?

Luckily, most of my friends are pretty chill about casual sexual interactions if they happen to happen (ranging from snugglingto a drunken makeout session to fuckin') and aren't squicked by bisexuality (thus avoiding the "my same gender friends flee me!" problem described above), so it's never really been a problem.

I think for people who aren't hardwired mono these sorts of attractions must be pretty common, no?

Of course, I could see it being a major logistical problem if you tried to partner with all your friends and they weren't open to the idea of forming a commune!
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:05 PM
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Haha, for me, friendship kills all sexual feeling really . Maybe there's not enough tension? Too much trust and comfort? I don't mean this in a weird way, as if you would always need to feel danger to have great sex - I can't really put my finger on it. Infatuation, maybe? Which is always somehow connected with a sense of newness? The only real FWB I've ever had I didn't know that well before we got it on.

However, the process of making new friends would still give room for infatuation. I guess I need to have positive feedback to become really interested. I might think, wow, she's really cute, but if there's no corresponding energy coming from them, I move on to Frienship Land. Might explain also why I don't have the hots for my closest friends, one being a straight woman and the other a gay man.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:17 PM
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I have finally concluded that I do not do FWB. It simply doesn't work for me. I have a tough time separating out romantic feelings and physical intimacy. If it gets physical, I find myself wanting a relationship. I often don't even like to cuddle much with my friends. I'm just not capable of casual when it comes to that stuff. It's entirely possible that later in life, I may find myself wanting to have those types of connections. But not for now. I had a girl that I was sort of fwb-ing... But I think the only reason it felt ok was because I don't want a relationship with a woman. Then I realized that I wasn't sexually interested in women either.... Lol For me, nowadays, a friend is a friend, totally platonic. I'm not even sure that I'd want to play much with good friends.... Hmmm decisions!
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:17 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Hey TP,

I think it's great that you are as sex positive as you are. It's a rare thing.
I think the reason it might be a concern is that not everyone else is as comfortable as you. Sex can complicate things just because, as we hear here a lot, sometimes someone is not as into the other person as they wished. Especially sexually. Just not compatible sometimes in bed.
That then puts a strain on what would otherwise be a great friendship. There's always this "threat" of sex hanging over their heads. Not wanting to hurt someone's feelings etc.
Yes. I've made that mistake before. He would say no one minute, then flirt the next. It was very confusing, and more hurtful than if he'd just said no and left it at that.

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Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
So it's a risk. You hop in the sack together and it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't - the majority of people are too uncomfortable to discuss that and up goes the wall. And a friendship often spoiled.

Not a lot of people are sex comfortable enough to just sit down and say " I love you to death as a friend but sexually we aren't a match" Fragile egos being what they are.

Make sense ?
Yes and no. I am not too uncomfortable to discuss how I feel about it. Which means they will hear and have the opportunity to speak. But you know what? There is so much less pressure (for me, anyway) to perform, because it's a totally different kind of sex (to me) than relationship sex. It's a bonding experience; it doesn't need to be earth shattering. I have a hard time believing that you can't have reasonably good sex between two people who care about each other. That said, I would say that good sex with a friend isn't the same as good, compatible sex with a partner.

I don't know. I've never had bad sex as an adult. There has always been something that was unique, or worthwhile about my experiences. That doesn't mean I would be in a relationship with everyone I've had sex with; a higher degree of sexual compatibility is necessary for a relationship (for me) than what might be achieved through a good, loving time with a friend.

Last edited by TruckerPete; 10-09-2011 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Quote issues. Stupid iPad.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:00 PM
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The quote you used was mine... I was talking about something different on my blog than what was brought up here I think and its left me confused.....

I was saying that I have felt constrained in the past by the monogamous relationships I had when it came to developing other close relationships, such as friendships; with men particularly... but also women.

Then I said what you quoted:
"I have always needed companionship and deep friendships and can't seem to manage that without it becoming a relationship of partnership. Variety is part of that I guess."

Mono and I have a deep friendship and partnership that is not like the formula for monogamy that I am accustom to from my past. My monogamous relationships were built on co-dependency and a closed mindset towards developing intimate/close friendships with others. This change in relationship style, now that I have something different with a man that is monogamous to me, seems to me to mean that mono or poly mean nothing in the long run as far as terms that describe go. Its all a matter of how you want to achieve relationships with people. I have come to a place of being description-less at this point.

The sex part of this plays a secondary role and I think that those that are like me but identify as sex positive first are achieving and living something similar but putting the sex first. So be it, it just isn't what I was trying to say about myself is all. I put the relationship first and if the friendship deepens to the point that it is worth adding sex, I will consider it and bring it to the table... it isn't brought to the table first, friendship is and then intimacy and closeness that comes with deep friendship is and then sex, which leads to a lover situation. This to me is what you were commenting on when you wrote on my blog TP no? Am I understanding that you are saying that you have experienced something similar in your own life? Or is the experience different?

I am with ray on this I think. I don't do FWB either. I have intimate friends and those are my loves or partners. That is it... "friends" is just not that deep to me... I have partners and acquaintances more than anything. At least this is what I think others see as friends. For me friends just is not a deep thing like it is with those I am closest to. The difference is, or crossing line is in the sex that is added because once that is added, I am yours for life in terms of intimacy, support, friendship, caring, giving, and dedication. If someone doesn't want that or can't handle that, I know now not to have sex with them.... most people are in that boat it seems.
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Last edited by redpepper; 10-09-2011 at 08:50 PM. Reason: topic for elsewhere.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:33 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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I will reply more later, but it's hard to quote and review and edit on an iPad. First, if I did misunderstand you RP, it's still given me food for thought, so not a bad thing at all!

But I don't think I did? I am not talking about friends with benefits. Yes, I have had those, still sort of have one on and off. I mean sharing myself completely with a Friend. (One of those ones that most people are lucky to have a handful of.)

I will try to explain with an example, but this example is just one facet of the kind of sharing I mean. It's not all identical to this.

I had a friend in university who had terrible luck with women. He had a lot of trouble meeting gals he liked, and was rejected a lot. It was sad, because he was a wonderful person. He felt unloveable and unattractive. I told him this was absolutely not the case at all. And he looked at me and said, "Really? Would YOU sleep with me?" as if that was an absurd idea. I told him that of course I would.

So we did. Just that once. It was wonderful to show him how much I cared about him. And I think he really needed to see that from someone. And honestly, our friendship didn't change, except to deepen.

Like I said, that's just one facet, more of a sex for healing type of thing. But maybe that makes my meaning a little clearer?
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
Like I said, that's just one facet, more of a sex for healing type of thing. But maybe that makes my meaning a little clearer?
Ummm... no.

Hahaha! Actually, when I first read your initial post, I was confused. I wasn't sure what you were asking so I thought I'd wait and see what other people posted. But what I gather you want to know is if other people have/had friendships with people that they are able to have sex with, and still maintain the friendship without any hang-ups about having had sex, yet it doesn't become a romantic love-partner thang? And you are speculating why it isn't more common that we can fuck our friends, since we do have this nice friend connection with them anyway? And you're not referring to FWB type things because those tend to be more like fuck buddies, rather than good, close friends who you can fuck when moved to do so.

And when you ask, "Why must everything move toward a partnership?" is it because you've found that when sex happens in a Friendship, those friends seem to want to move it in that direction, of becoming a partner, romance, or something "bigger" or "other than" what already was there, simply because of the sex, rather than just continue to appreciate the friendship and also enjoy physical intimacy as a complement to the emotional intimacy of friendship? And when that (partnership) wasn't possible, then, perhaps, the friendship was no longer able to continue because, that person couldn't get past the fact that sex happened and you were "only" supposed to be friends.

Am I following you correctly?

I have had friends that I fucked, and some of those relationships continued as friendships and some did not. It seems that if we continued as friends, then we did not have sex again. It was like, the thing we both knew we did but never spoke about afterward if we were to continue being friends. Either that, or if we did have sex again, then the friendship had changed. For me these types of relationships happened many years ago, before I was married. I don't have a lot of friends now, but if it were to happen again, I think things would take a different course. I'm much more comfortable now discussing my feelings and expressing what's important to me than I ever was, so I think that might help keep the friendships from falling apart as they used to. But it still boils down to whether or not we can get past our default programming about what friendships, relationships, and sexual liaisons are supposed to be, and if we can let ourselves define them in our own ways.
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Last edited by nycindie; 10-10-2011 at 12:11 PM.
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