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  #71  
Old 10-09-2011, 04:33 AM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
This guy came in your wife's mouth after first meeting and you aren't pissed!? Really?! Where are his boundaries with his loves? He cared so little for Veganchick and her life and loves that he did this? What does that say to his character. Where is this dude? I would like to know who he is so I can stay well away from him and his partners. He obviously cares nothing for anyone but him self. Damn that makes me mad. They should of stopped trying to get off day one! She gave everything and he gave nothing to this. As far as I see he used her and her starry eyed thoughts about his commune or whatever. I hope this was a lesson to have PERSPECTIVE and not jump in so fast to something that has a glossy cover. Substance is everything, this guy is filled with fluff. Gah I would be so angry! Ya, of course he sent a nice "you are awesome" letter back, she asked for nothing and gave everything and he didn't come! She gave her good health! The most prescious gift! How many other women has he cum in. So rude and self centered.
Woah, woah. We don't know anything about this Paul fellow. Let's not smear him based on no evidence.

For all we know, Paul was very respectful of Veganchick. If Veganchick enthusiastically consented to the sex acts they shared together, then there's nothing wrong with him going ahead with whatever he did. Not everyone has a boundary against unprotected oral sex, and if Veganchick didn't mention anything about it, he didn't do wrong by taking her yes for a yes.

Podunk, I hope Veganchick does come here and read this, and maybe even post. She needs to start empathizing with you and how you feel.
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  #72  
Old 10-09-2011, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MichelleZed View Post
Podunk, I hope Veganchick does come here and read this, and maybe even post. She needs to start empathizing with you and how you feel.
Just because she has been giving him space to have this thread without posting yet doesn't mean VC hasn't read it nor that she hasn't yet "started" having empathy for him.
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  #73  
Old 10-09-2011, 04:41 AM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Just because she has been giving him space to have this thread without posting yet doesn't mean VC hasn't read it nor "started" having empathy for him.
You're right, NYCindie. I didn't mean to assume to know where Veganchick is at. It does sound like Podunk would like a little more empathy from her. But she could be getting there... or not! I don't know.
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  #74  
Old 10-09-2011, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MichelleZed View Post
Woah, woah. We don't know anything about this Paul fellow. Let's not smear him based on no evidence.

For all we know, Paul was very respectful of Veganchick. If Veganchick enthusiastically consented to the sex acts they shared together, then there's nothing wrong with him going ahead with whatever he did. Not everyone has a boundary against unprotected oral sex, and if Veganchick didn't mention anything about it, he didn't do wrong by taking her yes for a yes.
it sounds like he came in her mouth and she swallowed. I don't know but I'm pretty sure if I was a guy and someone I didn't know encouraged me to cum in their mouth I still wouldn't. I would question their knowledge of safe sex and be an example of what safe sex is about. I wouldn't have much respect for someones lack of forethought really.

No he didn't do anything wrong. He just wasn't very ethical and responsible I don't think. To me that is the most important piece of poly. That might be different for others however. Oral sex can be a risky business and it seems neither of these to had thought of that. Oral sex does not mean someone is exempt from passing something on or having something passed to them.
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  #75  
Old 10-09-2011, 08:43 AM
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Sorry you're hurting, Podunk.

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I am sure you both can repair this. You said several times that your marriage is over. But don't be so quick to give up. Couples have bounced back and become stronger and more loving after things like this and worse. I know a woman who was able to forgive her boyfriend who beat her and even they repaired their relationship into something wonderful, loving, and healthy. So, don't bail... yet. As River said earlier in the thread, true love is so precious that, if it is there between you, it's something to fight for.
Just because some people have forgiven their partners for worse stuff and have been able to move past it, doesn't mean he has to. Not that you're saying he must, just saying I find it pretty irrelevant what others do in their relationships. I know many people who stay in dysfunctional relationships way too long. However, I agree with you that this situation is far from hopeless.
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  #76  
Old 10-09-2011, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Just because she has been giving him space to have this thread without posting yet doesn't mean VC hasn't read it nor that she hasn't yet "started" having empathy for him.
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Originally Posted by MichelleZed View Post
You're right, NYCindie. I didn't mean to assume to know where Veganchick is at. It does sound like Podunk would like a little more empathy from her. But she could be getting there... or not! I don't know.
Veganchick has only read some of the most recent posts. She is still hesitant to start at the beginning, maybe still some avoidance of owning this situation. She has written pages of her own with the intention of sharing here. She is a a little more reserved than me. I think it's harder for her to just throw her thoughts and emotions out there and see what comes.

In talking to veganchick tonight, I think I finally found some words to help her understand how much she hurt me. For the first time, I saw some compassion in her eyes.
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  #77  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:05 AM
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Woah, woah. We don't know anything about this Paul fellow. Let's not smear him based on no evidence.
I don't think Paul is a bad guy. I don't know him well, mostly only what veganchick has shared. Paul married a poly woman two years ago. He still isn't really sure about this whole poly thing, but is exploring the possibilities and enjoying (or at least trying to) a bunch of free sex in the meantime. If I had to describe Paul based on what I now know, I'd call him a swinger.

It seems veganchick saw Paul initially as this experienced poly guy. At their parting, it was actually her giving him advice. She told him what an interesting and beautiful person Meghan seems to be and suggested that he take the time to get to know her better. He said that he would. I wish him well.
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  #78  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:39 AM
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I think, also, that perhaps you read my post as trying to say that maybe VC didn't lie. I wasn't saying that.
It did come across that way when I read it.

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I am sure you both can repair this. You said several times that your marriage is over. But don't be so quick to give up.
I said that in the depth of shattering, in real time as this was in the middle of unfolding. My original post was not some idyllic reflection and did not enjoy the luxury of hindsight. It was pure raw passion flopped out there for better or worse. We have come far in these few days. I'm not sure I could even re-read my original post right now.

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Sure, have recreational sex if you want, but I would be much more mindful if you intend on using that as a way into developing real, heart-connected relationships.
I agree and think I learned that a long time ago from our swinging experiences. I made the mistake of assuming that veganchick had too. Well, not the mistake really, we had discussed as much. I guess it didn't really sink in though for veganchick until she experienced it herself.
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  #79  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rory View Post
Just because some people have forgiven their partners for worse stuff and have been able to move past it, doesn't mean he has to. Not that you're saying he must, just saying I find it pretty irrelevant what others do in their relationships. I know many people who stay in dysfunctional relationships way too long. However, I agree with you that this situation is far from hopeless.
I am too hurt right now to know and still clinging to what we had before this mess. The loss of that relationship as I knew it is still too painful and devastating to process. Even with the many things we can salvage and the unlimited possibilities of what we can build in the future, it is going to take some time to decide if I even want that. I want what we had and I can never have that with veganchick. Starting over with someone else would at least allow the hope of having something that special again.

Redpepper suggested I get a sense of humor. She doesn't know me so I will forgive that little jab. My sense of humor never quits, we have both broken down laughing many times in the middle of this, at the most inappropriate of times. Even with my life crumbling around me I can't help saying completely ridiculous things at times. That said, I will share the analogy I came up with for veganchick tonight. It left us laughing, but she got it, it made sense to her.

Have you ever eaten at an Ethiopian restaurant? The food is served on a huge flatbread in the middle of the table and everyone shares. On the flatbread are little piles of many wonderfully spicy and exotic dishes. It's food art, a taste adventure, each little pile bringing something new and wonderful to the tongue. Well that's our relationship up until this point. Unfortunately, veganchick for reasons unknown, decided to take a big stinking steamy shit right in the middle of the flatbread. Now I could still eat around that and enjoy all the other dishes, but would I want to?

Just something to think about. I guess it depends on how hungry I am and how tasty all those other dishes might be. There are other Ethiopian restaurants around. I haven't eaten there, maybe they have even better food? I don't know. I could chance it or stay here and eat around the shit. We'll see.
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  #80  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Podunk View Post
I am too hurt right now to know and still clinging to what we had before this mess. The loss of that relationship as I knew it is still too painful and devastating to process. Even with the many things we can salvage and the unlimited possibilities of what we can build in the future, it is going to take some time to decide if I even want that. I want what we had and I can never have that with veganchick.
I know it feels like this when your trust is broken. It feels like there is nothing but shit left of your beautiful relationship. But it doesn't necessarily have to be that bad! You won't know until you both have some time to process this both separately and together. It will take some time for you both to be able to understand each other in this, and you both need to work to gain that. But once you do, when you understand her side, and she uderstands yours, then both of you can begin to assess whether you can and want to rebuild your relationship (as it was or into something even better). *hug*
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