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  #71  
Old 12-02-2009, 06:48 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Here was the point I was trying to make.

A person who is inherently monogamous or wired monogamously has no desire to open up. This is not to be confused with a person who is just in a monogamous relationship because they have only found one love so far. That person may have a desire or acceptance to open up.
If by "open up" you mean opening up the romantic relationship to more than two people, then yes I agree. If by "open up" you mean approaching a relationship with an open mind and heart, then I would disagree.


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So, when viewing information on how to "open up" the information is perceived as a threat to what the truly monogamous person wants in their life. It is not seen as enlightening or positive because it goes against their nature and threatens the world they know.
This is where I differ. It is entirely possible to be monogamous and not perceive information that runs counter to what they want as a "threat". That perception of threat has nothing to do with mono or poly wiring. It has to do with whether someone is easily threatened or not. Or more to the point, it has more to do with being secure or insecure. A secure person wouldn't see a threat in different ideas where an insecure person would. Monogamous people are not inherently insecure. They're inherently monogamous. That is the difference I see.


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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Same words, same pages, but the information is received differently. The forecast of a warm dry summer could be perceived as the best thing in the world to a sun bather…but to a farmer the same forecast might be viewed as the worst thing as it could spell disaster to what he knows and loves…his crops.
That analogy doesn't fit for me because those are situations that point to quantifiable physical consequences, not emotional perceptions.

Now, if a person is monogamous and in an monogamous relationship with someone who then wants to change the agreements of their relationship to be open, then yeah there's a good reason to be threatened. But facing the end of one's relationship because of an idea being actively applied to one's life isn't the same as just reading about or learning about an idea. I could only feel threatened by such an idea if I felt there was a very real possibility of that idea disrupting my life. But perception of threat isn't because of being monogamous or poly, it's because of being in an insecure situation.
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  #72  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:22 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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If by "open up" you mean opening up the romantic relationship to more than two people, then yes I agree. .
That is what I meant, yes.

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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
A secure person wouldn't see a threat in different ideas where an insecure person would. Monogamous people are not inherently insecure. They're inherently monogamous.

If an inherently/wired mono couple were merely to be looking at information on opening up then they probably wouldn't see it as a threat or feel insecure. If one of the partners is entertaining the idea of opening up than the information would probably be viewed as a threat by the other partner unless they too wanted this.
One of the celebrated aspects of monogamous couplings is the security of exclusivity. It is not seen as a weakness or area of insecurity to not want your partner to share certain aspects of themselves with others. It is also seen as a gift to only share aspects of themsleves exclusively with one partner. To mono people this is not based on insecurity, it is what partially defines the nature of their relationship.

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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post

Now, if a person is monogamous and in an monogamous relationship with someone who then wants to change the agreements of their relationship to be open, then yeah there's a good reason to be threatened. But facing the end of one's relationship because of an idea being actively applied to one's life isn't the same as just reading about or learning about an idea. I could only feel threatened by such an idea if I felt there was a very real possibility of that idea disrupting my life. .
Agreed.
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  #73  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:30 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
One of the celebrated aspects of monogamous couplings is the security of exclusivity. It is not seen as a weakness or area of insecurity to not want your partner to share certain aspects of themselves with others.
I am not saying that wanting exclusivity is a weakness or area of insecurity. I am saying that feeling threatened by the very idea that other types of relationships aren't exclusive is a sign of insecurity. If my relationship is secure and I know where I stand, then I would have no problem reading about relationships that are put together in different ways than mine. And again, that feeling of threat or security can be felt by mono and poly people alike because that type of security has nothing to do with mono or poly wiring.

Last edited by Ceoli; 12-02-2009 at 07:36 PM.
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  #74  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:35 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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It is important to distinguish between the existence of alternative information and the application of that information to one's life.

I like to know what alternatives exist in order to make as informed a choice as possible, but that does not mean I find the roads not traveled a THREAT unless someone else tries to force them on me.
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  #75  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:43 PM
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I am saying that feeling threatened by the very idea that other types of relationships aren't exclusive as a sign of insecurity. .

I completely agree!! Now the big challenge is presenting the idea of alternate relationship styles to the mainstream in a manner that doesn't immediately evoke defensiveness. This is tricky because it is so easy to raise hackles which feeds into more negativity. I know mono people that are quick to judge and attack poly and I also know people in my community who attempt to bring about acceptance by converting people with traditional views. So how do we do this? How do we take the higher road?
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  #76  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:43 PM
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If any referance to "new ageyness" was implied, I apologize, because having never actually used that word, it was not implied or intended.
Do I need to start pulling out the quotes again? I quoted the line 3 times (and had 2 of them deleted) and STILL there's confusion.

There was a reason I posted that quote 3 times in a row. Maybe they should have been left alone.

And, since posters keep insisting on moving away from the actual point of dissension, I'll go along with the change in direction and reiterate that monogamous people are not inherently insecure, feel threatened, or close-minded, just as poly people are not inherently secure, open-minded or "enlightened".

There ya go, monogamous people don't suck, that's my mono-bashing comment for the morning.

I get really testing when I find myself defending a position I don't agree with (monogamy) simply because the the side I do agree with (polyamory) is using logical fallacies and outright untruths. I'm not monogamous, I don't agree with monogamy, but here I stand, defending monogamous people for not being close-minded because, well, they aren't (as a group). There are lots of people who are monogamous for no other reason than because they are not capable of romantically loving more than one person at a time and they do not feel threatened by the existence of other poly people. ANYONE whose relationship is facing a change in structure of any sort is likely to feel a little unstable at the idea of the relationship structure changing, particularly if it wasn't his or her idea to begin with - a poly person whose partner has brought up the idea of going monogamous has just as much likelihood of feeling "threatened" as a mono person being faced with polyamory for the first time. There is plenty for me to disagree with about monogamous culture, but the idea that monogamy inherently MAKES someone close-minded is just flat-out wrong.

Last edited by Joreth; 12-02-2009 at 07:50 PM.
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  #77  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:48 PM
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redsirenn redsirenn is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
I am not saying that wanting exclusivity is a weakness or area of insecurity. I am saying that feeling threatened by the very idea that other types of relationships aren't exclusive is a sign of insecurity. If my relationship is secure and I know where I stand, then I would have no problem reading about relationships that are put together in different ways than mine. And again, that feeling of threat or security can be felt by mono and poly people alike because that type of security has nothing to do with mono or poly wiring.
Yeah - I get this alot, so does Ouroboros. Even just talking hypothetically about things. In fact, it seems that people are even more defensive if things in our relationship are going well. I can only hypothesize, but it seems like they feel their relationship is at stake.

We each have friends that we realize we shouldn't broach this topic with based on how defensive they get... Even some of our most sexually positive friends, and friends that have explored poly before and gotten burned.

It is my wish that we could all be more secure in ourselves so that we can communicate different viewpoints among friends and broaden our perspectives further. Ahhh - that could apply to everything in life, and the world would be a little peacefuller.

Last edited by redsirenn; 12-02-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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  #78  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:49 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
I completely agree!! Now the big challenge is presenting the idea of alternate relationship styles to the mainstream in a manner that doesn't immediately evoke defensiveness. This is tricky because it is so easy to raise hackles which feeds into more negativity. I know mono people that are quick to judge and attack poly and I also know people in my community who attempt to bring about acceptance by converting people with traditional views. So how do we do this? How do we take the higher road?
Well, the first way is to not give a mono or poly nature credit for those differences of perception that have nothing to do with being mono or poly. Surprisingly enough, it goes pretty darn far in my experience.
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  #79  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:49 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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monogamous people don't suck,

.
I think some do...I get judged pretty hard by some monogamous people and have lost a lot of friends on this journey. But not all do for sure LOL!

I have a confession to make as well..I know some poly people in my community that suck as well

My actual in-person community I meant
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 12-02-2009 at 07:54 PM.
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  #80  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
I think some do...I get judged pretty hard by some monogamous people and have lost a lot of friends on this journey. But not all do for sure LOL!

I have a confession to make as well..I know some poly people in my communitiy that suck as well
That's the friggin' point! It's not a poly vs. mono problem, it's that some people suck, and some people don't, and the definition of "suck" is totally subjective.

I'll say it for you again...

It has nothing to do with whether one is monogamous or polyamorous. That's a false divide and you are contributing to the us vs. them atmosphere that makes general acceptance (of both sides) difficult.
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