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  #21  
Old 09-20-2011, 02:12 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
It's better when folks just come right out and say what they mean. A lot of unnecessary obfuscation happens when people try to beat around the bush out of trying to protect each other from the truth and/or reality.
When saying what you mean, shows little to no compassion for the other person, more problems are caused. Avoiding certain triggers that will shut off your partners ability to listen objectively can go a long way to actually getting your point across. Sometimes you need a small sharp chisel instead of a sledge hammer, likewise the revrse can be true. There is also an art to being able to adequately articulate exactly what you mean.

@ NYC - some techniques our marriage councelor told us to focus on seemed silly and extremely forced when we first tried them. However, after doing it a few times, we found a comfortable way to accomplish the same goal and have been able to put that into use and it no longer feels forced or silly. Now when things are out of control and "our way" isn't working, we call a time out and use the words the councelor told us and it helps us bring things back under control. It's like learning to dance, eventually all the little steps will flow into a fluid motion you barely need to think about.

Of course, if your way is working for you, then there is no need to "fix it".
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  #22  
Old 09-20-2011, 02:14 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
When saying what you mean, shows little to no compassion for the other person, more problems are caused. Avoiding certain triggers that will shut off your partners ability to listen objectively can go a long way to actually getting your point across. Sometimes you need a small sharp chisel instead of a sledge hammer, likewise the revrse can be true. There is also an art to being able to adequately articulate exactly what you mean.

Of course, if your way is working for you, then there is no need to "fix it".
There is also an "art" to choosing partners that are compatible with one's personality and communication style. I've done that, so I don't have the problems you describe above.
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2011, 03:13 AM
Lane Lane is offline
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Develop the skills but throw away the rule book.
One step at a time.
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  #24  
Old 09-20-2011, 06:14 AM
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I know people who swear by quirky little ways of self talking while communicating to remind themselves of what they are trying to achieve. I see no problem with that if it works. It doesn't seem "silly" at all. If it gets you to a place where you can incorporate the communication style into your life without the self talk about little play on words, then great! Some people thrive on that stuff. I am not a big fan of it... to empathetic I think, I thrive on my got reaction in communicating... but I do remember and do go over the many tricks and lessons learned on how to communicate sometimes as a way to remember why I communicate the way I do. It reminds me of what works for me, what doesn't and what I could work on or have forgotten about.

My ultimate goal is to be the best I can be in communicating with EVERYONE... not just partners. I realize this isn't everyone's goal... but it is mine. Its part of what I value; being considerate of others at all times.
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  #25  
Old 09-22-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lane View Post
These aren't communication methods, just passive aggressive ways of getting what you want, or teaching your partner a lesson.

Personally I find this approach somewhat mean and not very effective. Perhaps I'm just young and naive, but I'd rather not strand my partner on the toilet. Also, we don't live together so we don't fight about these things.
dear lane, only tonight i really Feel in answering you back in this thread.

it's not a matter of being used or getting used to some new ways; it's not matter that one of us here say ONE word and you'll be saved and transform; it's not one word in a book or in a psychologist' room; it's all of everything. and of yourself growing every day of your life.
"before enlightenment chop up wood and bring water home;
after enlightenment chop up wood and bring water home".

it's matter of new, different consciousness. it takes time, usually, and than, maybe, future will show you even that you can strand your partner in the bathroom and
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remind me of what works for me, what doesn't and what I could work on or have forgotten about. redpepper
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I have problems with basic communication skills being turned into a technique or system to follow. I've taken tons of communication workshops with great teachers and what I've learned is that being present, being open, and truly listening without an agenda is the way to communicate effectively. Putting ourselves in someone else's shoes so we can hear them from their point of view is also key. All this, of course, takes practice. However, following some recipe for self-expression seems silly to me. Making sure we're adhering to some standardized process can take us out of the moment and prevent us from actually connecting with someone because we're too busy monitoring ourselves.

So, I think it's also important that we not be too rigid with ourselves. If we find a technique or process that works, don't beat ourselves up for veering off that path once in a while, or for letting volatile feelings get in the way of all the calm, rational, "I sentences" we're supposed to be having if we're enlightened. Sometimes a genuine outburst does more to get a message across than a studied, carefully constructed sentence. Develop the skills but throw away the rule book.
It's really interesting to me that an underlying assumption is that staying present is any easier than following any other technique. Most people find it excruciatingly difficult to do exactly what you describe and often require technique and practice to effectively do it.

The kind of techniques espoused with NVC and other technique help people focus on their own emotional landscape in such a way that it's actually easier for them to be present with someone else. If I can effectively actually communicate an "I" statement that's not a disguised "You" statement and have a better understanding of what I need in the situation, I've already done some of the work necessary to free me up to be present versus being buffetted by emotions that I'm not effectively attending to.

Your advice about not getting hung up on technique is really important as well. If you're beating yourself up about tecnique, then you're not really focused on the task at hand.

One last thing, true presence gives the ability to learn and adjust in the moment. This is powerful. Starting with a technique, on the other hand, may give us the courage to engage in the most difficult conversations in our lives versus all the ways we try to avoid them.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2011, 11:06 PM
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It's really interesting to me that an underlying assumption is that staying present is any easier than following any other technique. Most people find it excruciatingly difficult to do exactly what you describe and often require technique and practice to effectively do it.
Of course!

I never said it was easy (although one can only be present, not stay present. When you try to stay present, it implies that you are trying to drag your state of being from the last moment, which is gone, and bring it with you into this moment and future moments. That goal effectively takes us out of the present. All one can really do is be here now). Simple, yes, but easy, no. I did say it does take practice. We slip in and out of being present so many times a day, but we often don't realize it.

I guess I like a more organic approach to practicing these skills, like just having a goal of observing our interactions first before trying to use a technique. Looking and seeing is a quick way into this moment of now, and when we really see what's going on, without an agenda, often we don't need a rule book to tell us how to respond. And I have nothing against using exercises to snap ourselves awake, but I think it's always better to have fun with it, not judge ourselves, and make it a game. Like taking a day to notice how many times I complain in my head about things. Just notice. And that is a way to cultivate awareness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindfulAgony View Post
The kind of techniques espoused with NVC and other technique help people focus on their own emotional landscape in such a way that it's actually easier for them to be present with someone else. If I can effectively actually communicate an "I" statement that's not a disguised "You" statement and have a better understanding of what I need in the situation, I've already done some of the work necessary to free me up to be present versus being buffetted by emotions that I'm not effectively attending to.
Age old advice that's been wrapped up in a pretty package to sell books, perhaps. None of this stuff about communicating with "I" statements is anything new. Gosh, I feel like I first heard that a lifetime ago. Trying to live by a recipe is what I object to, because that does take us out of the present moment when we have to keep checking if we're getting it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindfulAgony View Post
Your advice about not getting hung up on technique is really important as well. If you're beating yourself up about tecnique, then you're not really focused on the task at hand.

One last thing, true presence gives the ability to learn and adjust in the moment. This is powerful. Starting with a technique, on the other hand, may give us the courage to engage in the most difficult conversations in our lives versus all the ways we try to avoid them.
Yes, a wise teacher of mine used to say, have a game plan, but know that one of the rules of the game is that the plan can change at any moment.
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Last edited by nycindie; 09-25-2011 at 11:16 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-26-2011, 01:11 AM
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For me, the idea with an I sentence is not that is a law set in stone but a principle that tends to value owning your shit.

In a conflict being able to say, this is how I feel, this what I perceive has brought it about.

Instead of

You're a stupid asshole
You never do anything right
You don't love me

Expressing how YOU feel and acknowledging that it is YOUR feeling. Then saying when you did this, I felt X, Y, Z.

To me, it's about personal responsibility. And self-awareness. Seeing your feelings and understanding where they come from. Then, expressing that information as calmly and kindly as you can. It has very little to do with pronouns. :P
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  #29  
Old 09-26-2011, 11:34 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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I have found some very useful enhancements to my communication style recently...
An example of which I will describe;
I had a client asking me a question. He wanted a direct answer..
I started by describing the landscape.
He said - I want you to answer my question.
I said - Yes, I can see that.

And I made a decision to continue my communication.
He got frustrated and demanded an answer to what he thought was a simple question.

I calmy said to him - The words I am sharing with you are not random words that I pick from a hat. The reason I am having this conversation with you is that I believe this is information that is crucial to the foundation of your question....and of course, I want to answer your question. But I will not skimp on the answer, even though you want me to. What I am saying now is part of the answer...and you will see this is important when I proceed to the actual answer giving...

He paused and thanked me and we continued.

I'm inclined to think - my communication is mine. I want to remain mindful of it's delivery....but it is actually mine. I think there's a danger when you give too much of your communication style to the audience..
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  #30  
Old 09-26-2011, 06:05 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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I'm definitely working on communication lately. I'm finding that there is a mix between learning "techniques" for communication, and being aware, present and in the moment needed.

For myself, I'm finding that becoming a better listener is helping me the most in communication.

And lastly, for right now-- I do a lot of the communicating about major issues through email. This seems to work best for both me and my hubs. First, I tend to get overly wordy, easily distracted and go off on tangents when I try to discuss things in person. And often, the way I phrase something the first time doesn't really convey what I mean and gets misunderstood.

With email, I can think more about what I really want to say -- the meat of the message. I can be much more succinct, and edit as needed if I reread something and it's not really saying what I mean. And it works better for hubs because he can read it, think about it, reread it and see if he's reading it the same way twice , and then take time to answer.

Not that we don't communicate in person as well, but doing this first and THEN talking about it seems to be working much better for us.

We also talked this weekend about taking moments when we are upset to regroup. He needs time sometimes to walk away and cool down, and so do I. But knowing how to say that instead of just walking away angry is important.

I also told him I'm working hard in not "reacting" to things emotionally right away, but allowing conversations or moments to sink in for a while, and think about them more before responding. Because of this, there may be moments when he says something and I'm having a reaction, and I will let him know I need to put that away for a bit and sit on it-- I'll get back to him later.

It's a work in progress to be sure, but these small things have helped us tremendously-- which is good because we have a lot of stuff to work out right now!
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