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  #41  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:41 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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No, NY, I didn't mind your summary at all, just wanted to clarify. Details can get pickity persnickity! But I really did appreciate your helpfulness, and ONLY saw it as such.

(BTW -- sending much love to you and your city today).

I haven't yet decided what to do about calling her. Leaning at the moment at NOT doing it -- but that's because I'm feeling a little less scrambled -- because Sundance and I have been together all weekend, and have made love every night, and I'm feeling pretty hopeful about our marriage, even though it has gotten really fucked up! (Literally!)

I must confess that I am considering ending things with Butch. I need to focus on my marriage right now. I don't want a divorce. I don't want my kids finding out/freaking out, about the paramours. I need to simplify my life, deal with the problems that are within my own home, and get a life back that is open and honest. I'm tired of sneaking around with Butch. Discretion is one thing, but this is SECRET. I want to live in the sunlight. If Sundance wants to give up the sneakiness and the thrill of living in the shadows, which I believe deep down he does, then I think he will join me.

I also think that deep down, it may be a relief for Butch, too. (Well, ONE form of relief will end for him, ahhhhhhh. So sad for that.) We can still be friends but the sexual nature of our relationship will have to end. And for awhile, we will have to keep some distance so that part can heal. I don't think Butch will be too crushed over it -- if so I guess he will deal with it, the same way he has dealt with his emotions all the way throughout our relationship! He will respect me, my feelings, and the marriage I must recommit to. My LOVE for him will never end. But like I've been talking about the past week or so -- love and sex are not the same thing! They don't always have to go hand in hand. Duh. And emotionally, we've always worked to keep a guard up, to refrain from too much romance or sentimentality, so I guess that was a blessing in disguise, after all.

It could have been different. I did have a dream of something beautiful and I grieve the loss of that dream. But what I ended up with fell short of the ideal, to say the least.

For me, I think poly could have only worked if it were OPEN. WIDE open. But I can't do that with people who prefer to live chunks of their life in secrecy, compartmentalizing everything. It took some trial and error to find this out, and painful honesty and humility to admit that maybe it's not going to work for me, for my marriage, for my family.
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  #42  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:43 PM
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Default going from a V back to mono, maybe!

Can hardly believe I am actually changing directions, AGAIN! What a journey this has been.
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  #43  
Old 09-11-2011, 03:01 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Everyone's telling Carma to call Barbie and tell her the truth. The only problem is: if Barbie hears it from Carma, she won't believe any of it. Would you believe the polyamorous rantings from your boyfriend's "crazy" wife?

Unfortunately, Barbie is going to have to hear it from Sundance.
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  #44  
Old 09-11-2011, 03:21 PM
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I don't think I'm going to have to tell her anything. I'm going to just focus on my marriage and let the rest take care of itself. That sounds very simplistic, but I think it may work. I may have to be patient, and it's not going to happen overnight. And I'm loving this IDEA today, but actually following through with it is not going to be so easy. Me and my ideals.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2011, 04:29 PM
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Yeah, it sounds like this may be best. I think there will always be that question -- did Sundance handle things so poorly in order to manipulate into leaving Butch? -- but in the end it doesn't really matter. If your marriage is the most important thing to you, and it can't survive poly, then the poly's gotta go. It's certainly not like you haven't tried. I do hope that with a little time and space and a new counselor, Sundance can deal with his anger and dishonesty issues, and you can deal with your tendency to blame yourself for things. *hug!!*
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  #46  
Old 09-12-2011, 02:37 PM
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Dear Anna,
THANK YOU. Your kind words mean so much right now.
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  #47  
Old 09-13-2011, 12:20 AM
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Somegeezer Somegeezer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleZed View Post
Everyone's telling Carma to call Barbie and tell her the truth. The only problem is: if Barbie hears it from Carma, she won't believe any of it. Would you believe the polyamorous rantings from your boyfriend's "crazy" wife?

Unfortunately, Barbie is going to have to hear it from Sundance.
It would be Barbie's problem to believe it or not, at least she would have been told.

Carma: Are you sure leaving Butch would be best? Do you have problems with Butch as you do with Sundance? Is it really worth hurting someone who has done nothing wrong, to keep someone happy who can't even tell the truth?
At the end of the day, that is your decision and you know what is best for you. I'd just like to know why you would let Butch go, assuming he has done nothing wrong in your relationship together to deserve it.
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  #48  
Old 09-13-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somegeezer View Post
It would be Barbie's problem to believe it or not, at least she would have been told.

Carma: Are you sure leaving Butch would be best? Do you have problems with Butch as you do with Sundance? Is it really worth hurting someone who has done nothing wrong, to keep someone happy who can't even tell the truth?
At the end of the day, that is your decision and you know what is best for you. I'd just like to know why you would let Butch go, assuming he has done nothing wrong in your relationship together to deserve it.
Thanks for your questions, Sg. Making me do the thinking work today.

I'm still freaking out a bit about what Barbie is being told, and what I'm being told, that isn't true, or at least, is only partially true. Makes me completely crazy. So I am trying like hell to just focus on my own choices today. Today I am choosing not to be intimate with Butch.

I'm kinda treating this like a recovery program. I was powerless over the extramarital relationships and my life had become unmanageable.

Butch has done nothing wrong. But our relationship was not "real." We met once or twice a week, with no kids around us, no outside distractions, just the two of us and a mattress. Focused 100% on one another. Other than that, EVERYTHING was restricted, compartmentalized, limited, restrained. We'd text or talk on the phone only occasionally. We did have some really great heart-to-hearts, I must say, but again, it was when no one was around and we had the luxury of giving one another undivided attention. He talked about his life and the challenges he's going through, and I tried to listen selflessly and keep my own problems out of it. I didn't want to burden him -- he already has enough over his head. I have Sundance; he has no one. I also never wanted to play a sympathy card - use him as a shoulder to cry on. I didn't want to need him. The only need I took to Butch? Was the need to love him. He let me do that, and I know he had to let go some male pride in order to do that.

YES, I realize there are going to be snorkers out there, who say, "Oh, so he LET you fuck him, how noble! And how altruistic of you, carma, to give sex for nothing." Someone even said once, only the STUPID whores don't get paid. I can honestly tell you the only "payment" I ever wanted was knowing I made his life better, even for a moment.

But it got to the point where, if he knew how badly my own life was sucking from it, he'd want it to stop too. He isn't a charity case! He never asked me to sacrifice everything for his sake.

That's a big key: he never asked. I just self-appointed. Assumed he had too much pride to ask.

He never wanted more than a temporary thing with me. He never wanted to be the cause of my marriage breaking apart. In truth, he just wants to focus on his kids right now, that and looking for a better job. If I had come to him with all my emotions -- or even a fraction of them -- he would have told me to go away, that he couldn't take the drama. I was not being completely honest with him, in that regard, because I was hiding my emotions, to spare him. Well, I was doing a good job at it until Sundance had another woman falling in love with him and I realized, this is not the life I want to have. Both of us splitting ourselves in two, holding back here, giving 95% there, being 100% present in bed with another man, then not speaking to that man for days in order to respect my husband.....

My life is fucked up people.
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  #49  
Old 09-13-2011, 05:34 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Take heart, Carma. Your life is not that fucked up. Emotions can be a bit messy, that's all, but you're not fucked up for having emotions.

It's not logistically easy to juggle husbands and wives and boyfriends and girlfriends and kids and life and jobs. It was all getting to be too much, right? Think of this as decluttering, a chance to catch your breath and live a simpler life for awhile.

That special alone time you had with Butch (you, him, bed) you can have with your husband. In fact, I'd demand it. Your kids are teenagers, right? No need for a babysitter even. Get a hotel and spend some re-connecting time.

... he has broken it off with the girlfriend, right?
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  #50  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:28 PM
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He SAYS he has.......

We will see. She lives near his work, 2 hours away. So it will be easy for him to sneak during the day, while he's at work 9-5, but damn near impossible to sneak when he's not.

i.e. If he sneaks, I will find out.

But I don't think he wants to sneak, or intends to. It will depend on many factors. Like, if she keeps pursuing him. Or if I have a bad day and he feels like my time of making amends was just a ploy to manipulate him into breaking up with her. He has even made the joke, "Oh, sure, just when I was starting to have some fun, you call the whole thing off!"

No matter how much fun he was having with her, it can't be fun to come home and watch your wife falling to pieces.

I do not want him to be miserable! But for awhile, we are going to have to face the unpleasant issues in our marriage, and not keep sweeping them under the rug, or blaming them on the outside relationships, or ESCAPING into the outside relationships! On the flip side, I am so relieved not to be juggling anymore, it does feel wonderful to pour my heart into Sundance. So it's not all bad! But I don't want to be unrealistic, either.

I think he feels like he forgave me for cheating (back before we made our "poly pact"), therefore I will forgive him if he cheats. I hope he realizes that two wrongs will not make this right. I am trying to make it very clear that I will not tolerate him cheating. The lies are bad enough. We have some honesty and trust to work on, for sure.
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