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  #21  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:25 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by Carma View Post
I told him I am just not comfortable with him being so intimate with someone who is a complete stranger to me. I guarantee you, HE would have NEVER agreed to it if MY guy were an unknown!!!

Well he hated the idea of a separation, got enraged, said he'll end it with her if I end mine. Said if I don't end it I can pack my bags and we're getting a divorce.
But you didn't ask him to end it -- you asked him to stop lying! Big difference.

Oh, Carma. Don't worry about venting here, you're not torturing us. You are torturing yourself. The first thing I would do when he comes home is ask him why he is so resistant to the idea of the girlfriend knowing the truth, and being in touch with you. Why? What is going on in his head? Why can't he be honest all around? Have you pointed to him that he wouldn't have agreed to your being with Butch if he was a stranger?

You know, my husband had a temper. And I would often have to start a conversation with, "I need to talk to you and I want you to listen without blowing up. Please let me say what I have to say and let's talk without raising our voices, I need you to promise me that because I want us to have a discussion and really hear each other." And if he got pissed while talking, I would stop him and say, "I understand you're angry, but you're raising your voice again." And he would keep it in check. He was always good about that, but I think my being calm and asking for that helped.
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Last edited by nycindie; 09-09-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2011, 12:10 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Carma, as Cindie said, please dont worry youre torturing us! I was thinking about you a lot ever since you lost your last post.

It's so odd how some "poly" people are still so in the mono mindset they feel they have to sneak around even when their spouse is on board with their relationship. Old habits die hard, I guess.

(I can also related to the temper thing. My ex used to raise his voice in our discussions/fights... ach, I hated it. It felt like he was yelling. I'd say, please don't yell at me. He'd say, "I'm not yelling!" In a loud voice. "I'm just speaking emphatically. Don't tell me how to express my strong feelings!"

But I just couldn't take it. Reason number 1032 we broke up. Despite years of therapy. )

I don't want to offer you any advice. Just support and a listening ear.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2011, 03:55 AM
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Somegeezer Somegeezer is offline
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*cuddles all round* =]

I keep coming back to read this. Not much to add at all though. I know what anger problems are like though. It's taken me a long time to get myself to the point I'm at now. The people around me have never been helpful of it. At times, even taking me back a few steps.

It's hard work and takes a lot of willpower, but he can definitely help himself. I'm sure with a lot of support from you and others, he can really get there a lot faster than I am. I'm sorry he had to be that way in the first place.

Any time you need an ear. I'm here. =]
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2011, 05:48 AM
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*hugs* Oh dear...so much fear and pain and sorrow. I do know what it's like to live in fear of someone who is supposed to love you. I also have major issues with lies...most of my issues are leftover major childhood trauma that I'm dealing with. I think whatever happens, you should find a lovely therapist for yourself. If you never really had a chance to get over the issues from your first marriage, it will be difficult for you to resolve the ones from this one. Cringing in the corner like a beaten puppy at the thought that your husband might get angry is not going to help either of you. I use this imagery because it's the one my husband used during our first fight after we got married. He got very angry, because 1.He felt it was an insult to him when I flinched because he wouldn't hit me...and then 2. Because he wanted to hurt whoever made me so afraid... I think until you find a way to work through all these fears, you will not be able to move on and be happy. Your men won't be happy because you won't be able to tell them what you want or need...your fear is stopping you from communicating properly. Good luck! I'm still working through my issues, and depression but am slowly coming out of darkness...I know you can too.
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2011, 07:25 AM
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Thinking of you Carma. We all three do. I translated your story for my men and they feel extremly sorry for you and send you their sympathy. Be strong and keep on moving. I hope you can come to an agreement that shows the path to something more respectful and loving for the future.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2011, 11:54 AM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Thinking of you, Carma, and hoping talks are going okay with your husband.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2011, 12:13 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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My thoughts are with you, lady. You can do this.
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2011, 02:06 PM
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YOU ARE ALL AWESOME!!!!

Thank you for your support and kindness. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Somegeezer, it helps to get the insight from a guy, too, BTW.

I cried like a baby all night. I NEVER cry! It was horrifying to cry those wracking sobs -- I locked myself in the bathroom with the fan and the water running so the kids wouldn't hear -- and at the same time it was such an awesome relief. Felt like finally throwing up after having a queasy tummy for.... well, a long time.

Sundance came home and saw me crying. He was very matter-of-fact, actually, which unsettled me a bit but I wasn't crying to get a reaction from him, anyway; I was crying to get my emotion out. We did talk quite a bit. He clearly does not want a separation of any sort. He wants only two options: I quit with Butch, then he quits with her, or we keep going on as we are. He insists that I am over-reacting, that I am making more of his relationship with her than it is.

I didn't sleep all night (actually the 3rd night in a row for this ) and at about 4 am I snuggled up to him and we actually made love and it was very good!

So much for my plan! It's ok, I'm coming up with another idea, haha.

I hope he doesn't come on here, but I am thinking about calling her. Asking to see if SHE would like to talk. I don't want to tell him ahead of time, of course he'd explicitly "forbid" it. But like some of you wise and wonderful people have said -- we are all adults here, right? I think it's time the "sisters" make contact. I feel bad for her and maybe it would help her to talk with me, too. I'd like to even arrange a meeting but I'll have to see what her initial reaction is. (We live 2 hours apart, and each have 4 kids at home, so it would have to take some planning). I'm thinking of saying: "Hi ____, it's ______. I wondered if you'd like to talk sometime?" Then see what she says. Might even have to say, "I come in peace!" I don't know, she is probably going to be a little intimidated, or maybe scared, but overall we've both got to be pretty curious!

I'll sit on this til Monday, anyway. I don't want her tipping him off before she at least considers speaking to me, because I'm sure he'd dissuade HER from talking to ME, too.

Maybe I CAN share, if she doesn't remain a complete stranger. We don't have to be friends but I think it's time for some acknowledgement, at the very least.

I must add though that I'm scared she'll ask some questions that I don't feel comfortable answering. I guess some things really are Sundance's to answer. I mean, some things can remain private within our marriage. I want to be very careful and respectful of that. It may be tricky. I also want to resist asking her anything that will put her on the spot too. That would be cruel. I'm hoping to just keep it kind of light. Maybe even giggle a bit, I don't know. I've been idealistic before, I really want to be smart about this. And of course, keep in mind that I WILL have consequences to face with my husband, who will initially be very, very angry that I overstepped his bounds.

Kea, Mag, NY (and anyone I forgot, in the thread) -- thanks for sharing your own experience in dealing with the anger. It's so scary. Beaten puppy -- that is so often my reaction, and Sundance has mentioned it too. Funny isn't it, how that makes them even angrier with you sometimes?! How ironic. He has accused me of using that as an act, to make him feel guilty or to keep him for expressing himself. Without ever stopping to think, "Maybe I need to be more gentle in my communication with this wounded person who I love?" It does make me examine my own self, though. Unfortunately, I can get very caught up in asking myself, "AM I overreacting??? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill, or a molehill out of a mountain???" It sure helps to have people who understand this particular situation.

Well, that's where I'm at, this morning. (Always subject to change, at the drop of the hat! EXHAUSTING!)

I adore you all, for being here for me. I am trying to be as honest with myself as I possibly can, and it helps to come here and do the hard work, and to feel safe to do so. THANK YOU, from the bottom of my twisted little messed up heart!
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2011, 02:08 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
But you didn't ask him to end it -- you asked him to stop lying! Big difference.
LOVE this.
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  #30  
Old 09-10-2011, 03:20 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma View Post
YOU ARE ALL AWESOME!!!!
Yeah, we are!


Quote:
I cried... it was such an awesome relief.
Good.


Quote:
He wants only two options: I quit with Butch, then he quits with her, or we keep going on as we are. He insists that I am over-reacting, that I am making more of his relationship with her than it is.
He'd rather quit her than stop lying to her?? OK, I think somehow he is handling her in a bad way just to get you to break up with Butch... He doesn't need to lie to Barbie. All he has to tell her is that you and he have an open marriage and you are fine with him seeing her. There doesnt need to be any breaking up of anyone.


Good luck with calling B, and dealing with the angry fallout. Keep a frying pan or rolling pin handy.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 09-11-2011 at 02:16 AM.
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