Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:55 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 194
Default

Cheesy Lady, you've brought up some interesting things that would be fun to talk about.

The first idea is about where we place our sexual relationship with ourselves on the hierarchy. I want you to maybe stop thinking of porn/masturbation with porn as your husband's "secondary," or at least consider my take on it.

I feel very strongly that everyone is entitled to a primary sexual relationship with themselves, a safe space where they can explore their sexual desires. This exploration may include reading sex books, masturbating, watching porn, confronting body image issues, or even just pondering sexual ideas that may occur to us. This "relationship with ourselves" is a special (and private!) place for only us, where we learn to be comfortable with our own sexualities and explore our own desires, not connected to our partners or our relationships or anything. This is about loving ourselves first.

A person with a healthy sexual relationship with themselves is better able to give to other people, I think. As hard as it is for me to grasp as a wife, I know I am my husband's secondary, in a way. His primary sexual relationship must always be himself, or else what can we give each other? And my primary sexual relationship is with myself, and always will be, my whole life, even when other partners come and go.

Cheesy Lady, you have a sexual relationship with yourself too, and have a right to it, just like your husband does. How you explore yourself or your sexuality is up to you. Whether your relationship with yourself and your body is healthy and positive is up to you, too.

So you can't think of porn as your husband's counterbalance to your potential boyfriend. His personal sexual explorations are, instead, a natural part of his sexuality, and in a healthy relationship, they balance out your personal sexual relationship with yourself. Does this mean you guys have to masturbate without each other to porn all the time? No! You get to decide how your relationship with yourself works.

Now, if your husband's relationship with himself gets co-dependent (lol) and he starts neglecting his other partners (you), then you two have something to talk about. But from what I hear from you guys, your husband has been viewing porn for years without you knowing (because you thought you'd forbidden him from seeing it, and he didn't think that, and kept watching it). So his porn use doesn't seem to have gotten in the way so far. Why fix something that isn't broken, therefore? Why go in and meddle with a good thing he's got going with himself, if it's not impacting on your relationship?
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:32 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead100 View Post
This whole revenge/getting even thing is way off the mark. I honestly didn't understand Mrs. Cheesehead's perspective.
Well, okay, I said I could be wrong. Perhaps you are not subconsciously tryng to get her back for wanting poly by using porn against her wishes. However, I still find your statement "this seems pretty unfair to me... I'm supposed to approve of her being with another guy, but she's going to veto me jerking off to internet porno???" as pretty indicative of your hurt or exasperation about this new stage in your marriage, of how you want a level playing field, and saw a correlation yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead100 View Post
To be labeled passive aggressive based on this (fraction of a) story is very insulting.
I didn't label you anything. I said that you might have an inclination toward retreating when hurt and then reacting in a way that has an element of "get even" to it. If you choose to feel insulted by this, and are not willing to explore whether or not there's any truth to it, then the issue is dead. What I wrote was offered in the spirit of being helpful. We all do passive-aggressive things from time to time, and we all have patterns of behavior that we carry around with us from an early age that do us no good anymore. I've done things I'm not proud of. I've also taken a ton of relationship and self-growth workshops, weekends, etc., where I've had to listen to others' feedback about myself without being allowed to defend any of it. Generally, it's understood that an immediate response of "I'm insulted" or "I'm offended" is often just a way to say, "No" when someone doesn't want to examine something they find unappealing to look at. Mrs. C. seems to think I've picked up something that you two need to address. Why not look at it like a scientist, without judging the behavior, and see if there's anything to it. We can only grow in our own personal journeys of enlightenment when we stop judging ourselves, our actions, our feelings, which in turn helps us not to judge our loved ones.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-05-2011, 06:35 AM
MorningTwilight MorningTwilight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheesyLady View Post
MorningTwilight - next time through you should grab some fresh cheese curds from a cheese factory. By fresh I mean not battered or deep fried, and still warm - they'll squeak as you eat them, squeaky cheese!
I've had this in Quebec, on pommes frites, with thick brown gravy, onions, and bacon. "Poutine," yum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheesyLady
Michelle - No, not all for me. Yes, I expect to benefit from the energy it would bring, same as I would hope I would bring home to him if I had an outside relationship. [...more remarks in which CheesyLady discusses porn as if it were her husband's secondary...]
I think it may be beneficial to think of it, in addition to the way MichelleZed discussed in her response down thread, as a form of release. Everybody needs that, and what they do to get it may differ from person to person.

Put another way, not everything Mr. C does needs to be (or should be) for your benefit. It's OK if some things he does are for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheesyLady
To put this whole thread in context, Mr. C some time ago (pre-poly) had asked my opinion on the whole thing and I thought I was clear I didn't want him using it when I made him some. When I found out about it again, then we got to discuss it in a new context.
In addition to looking to porn for fresh ideas and fantasizing about things one might not want to do with one's partner, there's also this thing called the Coolidge Effect, and it's this nasty bit of evolutionary behavior in a man that causes him to subconsciously become sexually bored with the same mate after awhile. The sight of a new potential mate brings the little soldier back to life. It's a "spread the seed" kind of thing. The point of bringing that up is that after being with you in person, Mr. C might want to look at someone else for a little bit, even if your lingerie pictures are ready to spontaneously combust in their own right!

The Coolidge Effect tends to loosen its grip after a few days to two weeks, fortunately. It's not your fault and there's not a helluva lot you can do about it; it's the way men's brains evolved, and it helps to explain, in large part, why Mr. C might want to look at porn once in awhile, even though he still finds you quite desirable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheesyLady
And no also to the idea of me having a problem with it because the gals are better looking than me or something. Mr. C shared some of the details of what it is that he is looking at, and it sounds more like home-made stuff than from a studio cranking the stuff out. Besides that, I don't see how I could be self-conscious with my body and be ok with starting a new relationship with someone outside of my marriage. Maybe that does happen, but is not the case for me. I appreciate other beautiful women (looking at clothed people around) and enjoy my own wonderfully feminine body.
All good to know! I hate it when women have body image issues. Newsflash: men do not (generally) think that runway models are attractive. Too skinny, no muscle, blech.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,680
Default a thread about porn and cheese

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningTwilight View Post
I've had this in Quebec, on pommes frites, with thick brown gravy, onions, and bacon. "Poutine," yum!
Mmmmm.... poutine. *drool*


Quote:
In addition to looking to porn for fresh ideas and fantasizing about things one might not want to do with one's partner, there's also this thing called the Coolidge Effect, and it's this nasty bit of evolutionary behavior in a man that causes him to subconsciously become sexually bored with the same mate after awhile.
Nasty, to look at another woman? This is a poly board, sir. I know you're kidding, but nasty is a bit harsh of a term.

Quote:

While the Coolidge effect is usually seen demonstrated by males—that is, males displaying renewed excitement with a novel female—Lester and Gorzalka developed a model to determine whether or not the Coolidge effect also occurs in females. Their experiment, which used hamsters instead of rats, found that it does occur in lesser degrees in females.
The research in the book Sex at Dawn suggests human females and other primates are meant to mate with several men during each sex session. I bet the female rats in the original experiment woudlve welcomed a few more males into their midst, because:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect

Quote:
A male rat would be placed into an enclosed large box with four or five female rats in estrus. He would immediately begin mating with all of the female rats repeatedly until eventually exhausted. Although the females would continue nudging and licking him to continue, he would not respond...
Bring in the reinforcements!

Quote:
The sight of a new potential mate brings the little soldier back to life. It's a "spread the seed" kind of thing.
All genders enjoy looking at/having sex with other attractive people besides their mates.

Quote:
The Coolidge Effect tends to loosen its grip after a few days to two weeks, fortunately. It's not your fault and there's not a helluva lot you can do about it; it's the way men's brains evolved...
What do you mean, a few days to 2 weeks?
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-05-2011, 10:29 AM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post

Bring in the reinforcements!

. . . What do you mean, a few days to 2 weeks?
*spits coffee all over keyboard*
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-05-2011, 06:10 PM
MorningTwilight MorningTwilight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
What do you mean, a few days to 2 weeks?
It seems to take about that long for the dopamine rush from orgasm to fully wear off, and your brain returns to normal. Perhaps I'm conflating that with the Coolidge Effect.

I really need to read something else besides relationship and sex stuff for awhile. Hrm, Neil Peart's Roadshow is sitting on my shelf, unloved ...

MT
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-05-2011, 09:03 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,680
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningTwilight View Post
It seems to take about that long for the dopamine rush from orgasm to fully wear off, and your brain returns to normal. Perhaps I'm conflating that with the Coolidge Effect.
Well, I dont know what you mean by normal. I can have sex several times a day most days (with multiple orgasms each time) (not that I am lucky enough to get that)~ I guess that's my brain's normal state. Of course, some men can have repeated intercourse and multiple orgasms in one day as well. Heck, even my 55 yr old ex h was capable of 3, even 5 Os in 24 hours sometimes... and still want more the next day. So I guess we are never "normal!"

Have fun with your non-sexy book.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-06-2011, 01:23 AM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningTwilight View Post
It seems to take about that long for the dopamine rush from orgasm to fully wear off, and your brain returns to normal.
Yeah, that can't be right. If your brain is only "normal" two weeks after an orgasm, nobody's brain would be normal, ever. Because who goes two weeks between orgasms? How do the scientists measure those levels?

Skeptical.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-06-2011, 01:54 AM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleZed View Post
. . . who goes two weeks between orgasms?
You're not seriously asking this, right? If so, then you'd be surprised!
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-06-2011, 02:10 AM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
You're not seriously asking this, right? If so, then you'd be surprised!
Okay, well then, maybe I'll amend that to say that it could hardly be considered abnormal to have an orgasm more frequently than every two weeks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boundary negotiation, casual sex, love, negotiations, sex, swinging

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:28 AM.