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Old 11-10-2011, 09:57 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Mr. FFR, I feel like I don't need to blog for awhile -- you spoke volumes of the truth in my situation. I am humbled and in awe, and I have to let it all sink in.

Last night I guess Sundance was ON the forum, because I have a "friend request" from him. I can't say if he read a thing or not, I don't know. But I guess it was a small attempt to show me he logged on, anyway.

I don't think I can go alone to the counselor, because I AM NOT ON THE INSURANCE POLICY. (This is a huge resentment of mine, that we were taken off the policy, but I don't really want to go into that right now.) But -- I am still going to call and find a female, and see if this time, he'll go. Someone told me it's like trying to fix my own car, or taking it straight to the dump, instead of taking it to a mechanic to see if it can be fixed.

Good grief, if I could just keep my cool.

He was gone last night and I did really well. I had a great night with the kids and did pretty well not obsessing over where he was or what he was doing or with whom. I guess it helped that he was completely silent on his end, so there was nothing to stir me up, except....the strange eerie lack of his chaos! Ha! You know, you get used to that chaos, too, even if it's unhealthy. All change is an adjustment, even good change.

I have to stop my brain from going from, "Wow, he's respecting my wishes, to give me some space, upholding the DADT agreement" to "He is just so enthralled with what he's doing, he's just not thinking of me because he's madly in love, or lust, and doesn't really give a shit about me anymore." EITHER ONE is a danger zone -- if I think he's being respectful, I feel gratitude. But then I think, I'm being a total fool, I'm delusional, he's not respectful, he's just having his jollies! And then I feel rejected and abandoned and MAD. Sooooo -- what I realize is, it's bad, bad, bad, to go there at all. I have to stay in my own head and stop trying to imagine what's going on in Sundance's. Well, isn't that something NEW??? For the past 13 years, my entire world has depended on anticipating Sundance's reactions! I have been so codependent, I don't know how else to be. He was extremely codependent on me, too -- and now he's being codependent with someone else! Such a huge change.

Thanks everyone for being so patient and kind with me. Getting through the denial is an agonizing process. Getting back to me is taking a lot of work. I had practically disappeared. Now I feel so tiny sometimes. And there's no one here to make me feel protected. Funny, there never really was!
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  #312  
Old 11-10-2011, 10:26 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I don't think I can go alone to the counselor, because I AM NOT ON THE INSURANCE POLICY. (This is a huge resentment of mine, that we were taken off the policy, but I don't really want to go into that right now.) But -- I am still going to call and find a female, and see if this time, he'll go. Someone told me it's like trying to fix my own car, or taking it straight to the dump, instead of taking it to a mechanic to see if it can be fixed.

...

I have to stop my brain from going from, "Wow, he's respecting my wishes, to give me some space, upholding the DADT agreement" to "He is just so enthralled with what he's doing, he's just not thinking of me because he's madly in love, or lust, and doesn't really give a shit about me anymore." EITHER ONE is a danger zone -- if I think he's being respectful, I feel gratitude. But then I think, I'm being a total fool, I'm delusional, he's not respectful, he's just having his jollies! And then I feel rejected and abandoned and MAD. Sooooo -- what I realize is, it's bad, bad, bad, to go there at all. I have to stay in my own head and stop trying to imagine what's going on in Sundance's. Well, isn't that something NEW??? For the past 13 years, my entire world has depended on anticipating Sundance's reactions! I have been so codependent, I don't know how else to be. He was extremely codependent on me, too -- and now he's being codependent with someone else! Such a huge change.

... Getting back to me is taking a lot of work. I had practically disappeared. Now I feel so tiny sometimes. And there's no one here to make me feel protected. Funny, there never really was!
Carma,

Give yourself credit - you realized what was happening and are acting accordingly. I'm sure it is agonizing but you 'read' very differently - in good ways - from when this first started and now. That 2nd paragraph represents so much work and growth on your part. Recognize that! (*pats Carma on back*)

And you are not tiny - you have your own back. Honestly, you are the only person that will ever watch out for you consistently (unless one is extremely lucky AND blessed).

Last edited by opalescent; 11-10-2011 at 10:27 PM. Reason: grammar upgrades
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  #313  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:14 PM
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He fucking took you off his insurance???!!!!

Please tell me I've misunderstood what happened. What balls! I'd fucking change the locks on him if he did that to me. I am furious for you!! Even as angry as my husband was at me, he made sure not to leave me without insurance. I just can't fathom anyone being that vindictive...
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  #314  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:44 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Originally Posted by Carma View Post
I don't think I can go alone to the counselor, because I AM NOT ON THE INSURANCE POLICY. (This is a huge resentment of mine, that we were taken off the policy, but I don't really want to go into that right now.) But -- I am still going to call and find a female, and see if this time, he'll go. Someone told me it's like trying to fix my own car, or taking it straight to the dump, instead of taking it to a mechanic to see if it can be fixed.
[...]
I have to stop my brain from going from, "Wow, he's respecting my wishes, to give me some space, upholding the DADT agreement" to "He is just so enthralled with what he's doing, he's just not thinking of me because he's madly in love, or lust, and doesn't really give a shit about me anymore." EITHER ONE is a danger zone -- if I think he's being respectful, I feel gratitude. But then I think, I'm being a total fool, I'm delusional, he's not respectful, he's just having his jollies! And then I feel rejected and abandoned and MAD. Sooooo -- what I realize is, it's bad, bad, bad, to go there at all. I have to stay in my own head and stop trying to imagine what's going on in Sundance's. Well, isn't that something NEW??? For the past 13 years, my entire world has depended on anticipating Sundance's reactions! I have been so codependent, I don't know how else to be. He was extremely codependent on me, too -- and now he's being codependent with someone else! Such a huge change.
Something I meant to say in one of those earlier posts, but didn't manage to: You have a TERRIBLE habit of trying to second-guess SK (sometimes imagining really sinister, twisted reasons for everything he does and says [and even when it wasn't him: remember the lotion in the Victoria's Secret bag]; and sometimes hoping/wishing/believing that it'll all have a fairy-tale happy end for you ["Wow, he's respecting my wishes, to give me some space, upholding the DADT agreement"]).

Trying to undersand somebody else' motives and wishes is pretty healthy, especially if that person is a key person in your life. But all through this thread, I've got the impression that you take it (took it?) beyond that healthy interest and caring and onto an obsessive level. My gut feeling here and please forgive me if I'm wrong. But you seem(ed?) to be twisting up your emotions focussing on understanding SK, when you might have spent that energy better on yourself. [The question marks are because I'm really hoping that you're moving forward from that kind of behaviour.]

And now you're doing a bit of the same with the counsellor. There's nothing that you can do about the past, missed session. But please just consider the following for the next time.

You (and the children???) aren't covered on SK's health insurance plan. At least not to the degree of your being able to get counselling for just yourself. But you're not making an appointment for just yourself. And - apparently - SK's coverage extends to counselling sessions for the two of you.

So go ahead (in conjunction with SK if possible) and set up a new appointment. Then - if SK bottles out again an hour before (or two hours or whatever) - the next step depends on whether he cancels the appointment himself or leaves that responsibility up to you. In the former case, you have to get on the 'phone to the counsellor yourself ASAP. In the second case, you have 2 options. You either call in advance to explain the situation or you wait and show up at the appointed time to explain it face-to-face. Disadvantage of dealing with it by 'phone is that you'll possibly be dealing with the secretary and not directly with the counsellor.

Whether over the 'phone or in person, I suggest something along the lines of:

"This session is supposed to be for my husband and myself together. And it's his health insurance paying for it. But he got cold feet at the last minute and decided not to come. And I'm afraid that this isn't the first time. However, I have issues to deal with, I'm trying to work out a healthy future for myself, my children - and my husband if he gets his act together. I would appreciate it if we could hold this session anyway; and you'll be getting paid for it whether we do or we don't. If your professional ethics won't allow you to charge this solo session with me to my husband's insurance, then I can turn around right now and walk out, no damage done and I undersand your decision completely.

"BUT a) I really could use the counselling and I can't afford to pay for it; and b) I'm hoping that when my husband hears that I'm going through with this with or without him, he might make more of an effort to show up the next time."

Who knows, Carma, you might just find that you've stumbled across a counsellor who also happens to be a caring human being. What have you got to lose if you give it at least a try? (What have you got to gain if you don't try?) We can often surprise ourselves by finding bits of human kindness all around.

Of COURSE, the best would be if SK doesn't bottle out again. (His insurance company might get a TRIFLE peeved with him if he makes a habit of that.) The best would be if he goes with you. I just throw that other screenplay at you just in case...
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:49 AM
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He fucking took you off his insurance???!!!!

Please tell me I've misunderstood what happened. What balls! I'd fucking change the locks on him if he did that to me. I am furious for you!! Even as angry as my husband was at me, he made sure not to leave me without insurance. I just can't fathom anyone being that vindictive...
We, she said we. As in, she and the kids don't have health insurance through him or his job?
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  #316  
Old 11-11-2011, 09:37 PM
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Sundance's boss is eccentric. Sundance is the president, and when he came on he set up the insurance for himself as a family policy. There was no discussion of this, it was just something Sundance did and didn't really give it much thought -- I mean, OF COURSE the president of your company has his family insured, RIGHT??? Duh????

Two years ago, Sundance heard that his boss MAY be auditing the insurance accounts, and that he only wants employees on the policies and NOT their families. (WHICH I think is not even legal -- ?) Instead of WAITING for his crazy boss to have the AUDACITY to come to him and say, "Hey, I want your family off the policy," to which Sundance could reply very straightforwardly, "OH. I see. So you don't want to take care of my FAMILY? I guess I will have to look for another job then...." he took us off the policy.

Now, it's my guess that:
A) his boss wouldn't have really done this to him, and
B) if Sundance had stood up to him, he would have said, "Oh, no no no! I don't want to lose you, you're my right hand man, OF COURSE I want to provide for your family!" I mean, what kind of an asshole asks a long-time, EXCELLENT employee and the PRESIDENT of his multi-million dollar company, to throw his family into the abyss??? SERIOUSLY???? It's too expensive to insure our family, really????

I've been furious about this. Sundance signed us up for self-pay insurance, then didn't pay the premium. He'd sign us up for another one, auto-deduct, then not have the money in the account the day it was due to be withdrawn. The premiums were high, the deductibles were ridiculous, it was a giant hole of nonsense. Even just catastrophic, for three pretty healthy people, was too much. I realize health care is a nightmare in this country, but this did not have to happen. I still don't understand why Sundance did this to us.

He says "I know my boss, you don't." Actually, he has a very dysfunctional relationship with his boss. There is bad communication, both ways. (Geez, do I even need to go into all of this?) Suffice it to say, there is no real job security here, because the boss doesn't do anything the conventional way, everything is spoken word, nothing in writing, sketchy, temperamental, AND his company is 2 hours away from our home! The JOB has been a major factor of our marital problems. And Sundance is too afraid to look for anything else. We've struggled through this nightmare our entire marriage. I know Sun has self-worth issues, and that's why I understood and tolerated so much of the problems. But I have begged him to look, just LOOK for something else, and he NEVER has.

YES, Mr., I DO second-guess the hell out of Sundance, and other people!!! I grew up in an alcoholic home, dysfunction was our middle name!!!! I am aware of this, and I'm trying to do better. I'm glad you noticed!!! Sometimes I will immediately jump to worst-case scenarios, just so I can anticipate the worst. This is pretty typical behavior when dealing with alcoholism, from what I've learned and heard from others in similar situations. It's very unhealthy and it can really fuck up your relationships. Sometimes I'll mess things up, rather than wait for someone else to do it (even if they WEREN'T going to!) -- then at least I'm in control, see?? Weird, I know.

Sundance's lies have tapped into some of my biggest fears. Trust is so fragile when you have a history of people's unpredictable, erratic behavior. His has been erratic, all across the board, EXCEPT his love for me, that was the one thing I did believe in. So when he:
A) falls in love with someone else, and
B) lies about it
I am left in some crazy turmoil, you know???? Whether I brought this on myself, a victim of my own doing, or he is a horrible monster, my black-and-white, extremist mentality is trying to figure it out. Not fair. He's being a jerk, I don't think there's any doubt about that, but yes, I can be a self-sabotageing little brat, myself. I know, sometimes I play absolute victim, and paint him as abject evil. He has been reckless and irresponsible, but I'm not sure what my part in everything has been. Because I've taken on A LOT more responsibility for his behaviors than I ever should have -- and NOT ENOUGH responsibility for my own!!!

Finally, time to change. I want to do it all overnight. Doesn't work that way, does it?
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Last edited by Carma; 11-11-2011 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:58 PM
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Two years ago, Sundance heard that his boss MAY be auditing the insurance accounts, and that he only wants employees on the policies and NOT their families. (WHICH I think is not even legal -- ?) Instead of WAITING for his crazy boss to have the AUDACITY to come to him and say, "Hey, I want your family off the policy," to which Sundance could reply very straightforwardly, "OH. I see. So you don't want to take care of my FAMILY? I guess I will have to look for another job then...." he took us off the policy.
Your right it would NOT be legal to remove family members from insurance policies. However, the company doesn't have to pay for said family members and is within their rights to request payment from each employee for family members. When the company gets the renewals (and monthly bills), it is broken down by each employee and subsequent family members, so to say the boss didn't know before hand is bullshit. Even if he did change his mind and only want to pay for the employee, all he would have to do is have a payroll deduction for the difference. It is WAY cheaper to be on a company policy, where the boss pays even a partial amount than purchasing individual insurance.

Talk about being petty and out for revenge of some kind. That this happened two years ago, says that you two have had some SERIOUS issues for a long time.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:12 PM
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Oh, also -- Sundance told me yesterday that he read through this whole blog. "ALL 48 pages of it" (or however many there are), he said, implying that my blogging has been EXCESSIVE.

I'm not entirely sure he read everything, who knows? Probably scanned it, at least. I must admit, it's a lot of material. But it's our LIFE, I would think he'd find it somewhat worth reading?!?! More so than, say, PEOPLE MAGAZINE, huh???

He said, "I'm going to go on there and set things straight. The LIES on there...." Just so you know, he just may show up to expose me as the complete bullshitter I really am.... Fine with me. May the REAL Sundance, please stand up???

Actually, I feel snarky for saying that. I do wish he'd come here. But not with that defensive motive/mentality. I wish he'd calmly and humbly come and ask for understanding. I have sure found that, here. I am sorry he didn't participate, all along -- things could have gone better. Now, yes, he will have to get through some amount of pre-judging, but I guess he underestimates the intelligence and the compassion of you all!

I am SORRY this is only ONE SIDE of the story -- it's the only side I've got. If I've misrepresented some things, it's my viewpoint -- but I've TRIED to see things from other people's perspective, DUH, that's part of why I'm here. If he read through the posts, he would have seen how often people do try to give him the benefit of the doubt, how often people here have called me out on my shit!!!

But if I've misrepresented him, and that hurts him, I feel terrible about that. I know I've taken liberties to expose a lot of his weaknesses and his mistakes and his shortcomings, and we've all taken his inventory damn good, haven't we? But this is my story, and I've got a right to it. I'm sorry he never wanted to come and offer his voice. We've all been sorry about that!

And one important thing -- this is ANONYMOUS, right?! Sheesh! I'm not publishing it in the local newspaper, with real names.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:17 PM
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Aw, sweetie. Suckage mas grande. :-\

So since books are my thing I'm gonna recommend one for you, that might help you with working through things in your head a little.

It's called "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie

My completely unsolicited thoughts based on nothing more than words on a page (ha, ha) is that because of the way you were raised, you work on the premise of waiting for the other shoe to drop and alternating between trying to keep it from happening and making it happen so that the anxiety from waiting stops.

SK still reminds me a lot of the ADHD stuff (things like not having insurance for the fam and meaning to, and making plans and not paying, etc etc etc) but that really doesn't matter one way or another at this point. What does matter is that you need to break away from the dynamic you have with him, and have had with others in your past, and learn how to focus on you and what you need. This book is good at telling you ways to do that and making patterns you may have more obvious so you can catch them in action.

I'm also thinking MAYBE something like Alanon might help? I know a few people that have gone through them to deal with codependency issues and considering your past you may very well find people that understand and can help. And it's FREE!

And damn it stop kicking yourself for being a mess, join the damn club! :-) I'm finding we are all a mess in one way or another. It's a universal truth. The lie is the way we all pretend we're not and think we're the only ones pretending and everybody else is really all pulled together.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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I am SORRY this is only ONE SIDE of the story -- it's the only side I've got. If I've misrepresented some things, it's my viewpoint -- but I've TRIED to see things from other people's perspective, DUH, that's part of why I'm here. If he read through the posts, he would have seen how often people do try to give him the benefit of the doubt, how often people here have called me out on my shit!!!

But if I've misrepresented him, and that hurts him, I feel terrible about that. I know I've taken liberties to expose a lot of his weaknesses and his mistakes and his shortcomings, and we've all taken his inventory damn good, haven't we? But this is my story, and I've got a right to it. I'm sorry he never wanted to come and offer his voice. We've all been sorry about that!

And one important thing -- this is ANONYMOUS, right?! Sheesh! I'm not publishing it in the local newspaper, with real names.

Here's the thing. All of our stories are one-sided. All of our opinions are ours alone. the way we see situations and events can ONLY be from our own pespective. So duh.

Nobody here takes anybody's word on things, but they try to see alternate sides and give opinions. And yes, your shit has been called repeatedly!

If he truly wants to be understood, he needs to understand that this is from your perspective and try to show you his perspective. It's not about "defending" one's self or "proving" anything. It's about communicating, and empathy and putting yourself in the other person's shoes so you can try to see where they're coming from. This board can be a jumping off point to meaningful conversation, it doesn't have to be a he said/she said thing unless somebody wants to take it that way.

This site is totally anonymous, however my own feeling is that people often don't like to see things that they've done or said in actual print because it causes them to have to really look at the events and prevents them from playing the little head games we all do so that we can avoid really looking at our own actions and how they affect somebody else.
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