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  #301  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:49 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Monday was the counselor's appointment and.... he ditched out.

He says he was scared. Then he says he wants a female counselor, not a male (I got the male because he was the only one in the practice who takes my husband's insurance, and they got us in so quickly! I thought it would do for starters, just to check him out, anyway. Oh well.). I'm not sure if I'll make another appointment -- it doesn't take much to make a few calls, himself, if he's serious. I was embarrassed to cancel the last one at the last HOUR.

He's staying away tonight again, and I am looking forward to another Wednesday night of peace with the kiddos. I love focusing on them! I am such a better mom these days!

I'm struggling with a lot of the grieving process, mourning the loss of the DREAM, maybe more than the loss of what we actually HAD. But that is still very painful. Sometimes I fly into a rage. So I try to keep my communication with him to a minimum. I recently asked him if we can write e-mails, instead of texting back and forth. We tend to lob insults and get little digs and barbs in while texting. Plus there are auto-corrects and misspellings that often turn things into jabberwocky! E-mails are more thought-out. He agreed to try this and see.

Love to all.
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  #302  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:56 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by Carma View Post
Monday was the counselor's appointment and.... he ditched out.

He says he was scared. Then he says he wants a female counselor, not a male
Bullshit. He's just told you that he is completely done and your marriage is not worth his time or effort.

Hugs!
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  #303  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:57 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma View Post
Monday was the counselor's appointment and.... he ditched out.

... I'm not sure if I'll make another appointment -- it doesn't take much to make a few calls, himself, if he's serious. I was embarrassed to cancel the last one at the last HOUR.
That totally sucks and speaks volumes of his lack of commitment to doing anything to make things work or heal between you. Fuck, I'd be royally pissed! But why didn't you go by yourself?
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  #304  
Old 11-09-2011, 08:06 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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That totally sucks and speaks volumes of his lack of commitment to doing anything to make things work or heal between you. Fuck, I'd be royally pissed! But why didn't you go by yourself?
I second both of those thoughts!

Also, lots of counselors still charge you if you don't give them 24 hours notice. Next time, just go yourself.

Letting go of sarcastic passive-aggressive barbs and asides is a good idea.
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  #305  
Old 11-09-2011, 08:52 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Sorry sweets. ((HUGS))

I agree with the ladies, though, that a counselor might be something really good for you personally to help you deal with the feelings and situation you are in constructively and have somebody objective who can listen and offer you the support you need right now to focus on yourself and your kids.

Maybe he's thinking he can charm the female therapist and that a male therapist wouldn't be swayed by his usual moves. :-O

And I agree with Mags that barbs and snipes aren't helping you at all. It just fuels the emotions/thoughts and keeps you in the circle of emotions that keep you feeling upset.

Maybe it's time to just keep the communication to the practical matters for a little bit and give yourself a rest for a little bit.
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  #306  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:31 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Oh hon. I'm sorry there's more drama. Yes, I agree with SNeacail, it does seem like an indication that he's done with the marriage.

But you would get a lot out of counseling. Look at all the work you've already done on yourself! I urge you to go to one even if Sundance never does.

If he wants to set up an appointment, it might be worth trying, especially if that would help the two of you dissolve the marriage amiciably. But otherwise, yet another instance to move on past, sweetie.
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  #307  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:34 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Gosh... if you have a desire to give it another shot...any chance you can find a lesbian poly friendly counselor in your area...be curious when he canceled last minute because he wanted a STRAIGHT female counselor...

The first visit is always the hardest, but you could probably get so much perspective bouncing things off of a neutral third party I am sure it would be worth it.
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  #308  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:47 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Hi Carma,
I spent about half an hour composing a post for you last night (around 4am, sleep-deprivation crazy - and after a 3-week absenteeism from Internet), and while I was previewing it I managed to close the window and everything got lost. Perhaps just as well...

Tonight (actually it's past 6am now, but I haven't got to bed yet) I've just read that SK bunked out on a counselling session (I haven't got 100% up-to-date, but I caught that). Just wanted to add my vote to the general concensus of opinion:

a) That REALLY sucks!

b) You should have gone ahead and used the session for yourself. As Magdlyn's pointed out, the fee probably won't be returned, cancelling at such short notice. [And after all the energy that you (singular) have put into trying to adapt to SK + trying to find a healthy solution for the BOTH of you (plural), it would only have been poetic justice for SK's insurance coverage to have paid for some personal counselling for yourself (singular).]

I gather that you were worried that SK might unleash his charm on the counsellor* and that you might come off as a neurotic. For a start, you DON'T need to worry about stuff like that. For one thing, a good counsellor should be able to see through crap like that. For another thing, if SK wants to wallow in his own shit, there's not TOO much that you can do about it... except to decide: "Do I wallow in his shit with him, or do I deal with my OWN shit?" (And there are more productive ways of dealing with shit than wallowing in it.)

Anyway, if you (singular or plural) decide to make another appointment, make sure you (singular) keep it whether SK does or not. Let his insurance pick up the tab.

Got to pat you on the back with how you dealt with SK on the 'phone when he called from his sleep-over! Frankly, I can't imagine you having done it that well a couple of months ago. There's hope for you yet, Carma!

BTW, that's my hug in the pile of everybody else's on the chair in the spare room: mine's the frayed-looking purple one (sloppy but warm).

---

* Obviously he reckons that he has more chance of charming a female counsellor than a male one.
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson

Last edited by MrFarFromRight; 11-10-2011 at 07:29 AM.
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  #309  
Old 11-10-2011, 07:26 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Oh, Carma!
Have just read some more, still not got to bed...

I DO wish that I (and others) didn't have to keep pointing out this stuff to you. You so want SK to turn out to be the enchanted (and enchanting) prince that you're not looking the truth straight in the eye: that you kissed an amphibian 13 years ago. And I'm sorry, Honey, but he wasn't even a frog... he was a toad.

Let me give you just THREE examples:

a) You go off to visit your daughters in NY. Before going, you ask SK not to take Barbie to see your house (or your children) while you're away. You actually WANT to form a friendship with Barbie... but all in it's own time, not until you're ready. (And besides, if she's going to come to your home, you should be there.) SK tidies up the place BEFORE heading out to see Barbie and then she "begs" him to show her the house (and even peek through the windows to see if she can catch a glimpse of your/his children.)

b) He tells you that it's OK for you to get back together with Butch. He's fine with that. Then when you do, he tells you that you've really let him down, and that he can't make love to you any more. (It's YOUR fault. You drove this poor man into another woman's arms. If YOU weren't such a mess, you could both be happy together. ["Buy your tickets here for the guilt trip!"])

c) One MORNING, before leaving for work, SK makes sure that he's packed his shaving kit and hair-drier. ("See you tonight, Babes. Looking forward to an evening with you and the kids!") Then - at 4:30pm - he TEXTS (not calls) you to say that he's "running late" and won't make it home that night. (Oh, he calls later to say that he's staying at a hotel... and that Barbie's going to be coming around.)

Sounds an AWFUL lot to me, like he was running right on time and right on track... but HIS track: one laid well in advance and that doesn't care if it sideswipes the foundations of your house.

And STILL you fantacise that this toad is going to turn into some amazingly wonderful prince and that you and he and Barbie and Butch are going to live happily ever after!

Carma, people CAN change. Even SK is not beyond the chance of redemption. But for him to change, he has to WANT to change... and put in some HARD work and face up to some pretty ugly truths about himself and about his extreme lack of consideration for your feelings. He has to WANT to stop lying. And even more, he has to have to stop trying to make YOU feel guilty for his piss-pathetic inability to deal with HIS shit.

He says he loves you, that he'd rather be with you than with Barbie? Then why the hell isn't he willing to put in the work to turn himself into the kind of person that you can respect and trust? Why does he play crooked games, and then call YOU an ice-princess for not loving His Royal Toadness? Why isn't he capable of showing up for a counselling session which MIGHT have been the first step to salvaging your marriage? (Or ending it healthily...) Why does he ridicule you for getting moral support from this forum?

Take a look out your backdoor and tell me if you see any magic wands growing on that tree out there. If not, I don't hold out much hope.

Consider the possibility that there just might just be "a Beauty in Walking Away"...

And pay attention to this woman, please!:
Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
Hon,

Diddlysquat has changed. I want you to consider something.

Barbie is totally irrelevant. She doesn't matter. Why? Because if she wasn't in the picture, there would be some other poor sod of a woman. She's the excuse for the behavior, not the cause. She is not who you need to be talking with. You need to talk with Sundance. And I'm not seeing that happening. Rather, he seems to be putting everything on you - you change and I'll be fine. You do this - give up Butch and I'll be happy. Go back to Butch and I'll be happy. Psych! No I won't be happy.

Don't waste your time and mental energy on Barbie - and not because she's evil or undeserving.
Good stuff. Tough love. You know that you've got LOTS of good people on your team, Carma. So watcha doin' wastin' yer time wid losers???
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #310  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:09 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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OK, I actually got into bed at about 9am (2 1/2 hours ago), shut my eyes and probably even dozed off for a while. Was back on my feet at 10am. Sometime I'm going to have to pay for all this missing sleep.

Having at least RESTED, I've calmed down a lot, and repeat the standards:

a) We're only hearing (reading) your side of the story. Maybe SK isn't as bad as you make him out to be.

b) It takes 2 to tango.

I think it would take a hell of an imagination to invent all that stuff you write about. And what would be the point? Are you a cynic getting your rocks off on tying up polys' energy in pointless invented scenarios? I choose to think not. I choose to think that you're on the level, telling the truth... AT LEAST as you see it.

But I do think that you bear some responsibility for everything that's been going on. If everything happens as you describe it, you've been an enabler. You allow SK to treat you as he does. You even encourage it. Asking to see his text communications with Barbie and the photos that she sent him. Or even AGREEING to see them if he offered to show you them. You write that you suffer from seeing that stuff. And SK MUST notice that you suffer, unless he's COMPLETELY autistic. So by agreeing to have a look at it, you're putting yourself in a position where he can watch you suffer. I don't know whether he gloats about that, or reckons that he's getting his just dues for whatever "suffering" you caused HIM in the past (or now). Maybe he's so high on NRE that he really DOESN'T notice you suffering.

But you know it, Carma.

So why do you play the game, hmm?

Why do you hand a box of matches to someone who's either an arsonist (criminal) or a pyromaniac (psychological problem)... while you're wearing a little synthetic number that would go up in a whoosh... and melt onto your skin while burning?

As I said, there's hope for you yet. Cutting his sob-story [about how he was missing you and the children during his overnight] off and telling him to enjoy it was a real step in the right direction. Having a good time with your kids while he was on the overnight with Barbie was [among other positive aspects] an act of self-appreciation and self-love. Keep up the good work.

You know, it's just POSSIBLE that if you refuse to play his crooked game, if you refuse to enable, he MIGHT "straighten up and fly right", there MIGHT be a future for you together. But I think that it's a slim straw, and you shouldn't obsess on it, because it won't necessarily (or even probably - unless [as I earlier wrote] he puts in a heavy load of work on himself) work out that way. What's for certain is that if you keep handing him the matches before he learns to deal with them responsibly, you're going to get burned.

My hunch is that you're not going to get someone who treats you with respect, until you realise that you DESERVE to be respected. And that means respecting yourself.

+ another hug.
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson

Last edited by MrFarFromRight; 11-10-2011 at 02:52 PM. Reason: grammatical correction
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