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  #291  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:43 AM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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I'm on my phone so this will be short. In addition to the Tara Brach book and podcasts (which I'm telling you now will be eye openin and may help you find some peace amidst the chaos) I also recommend a book by Michele wiener-Davis called "how to change your life and everyone in it". Its not as manipulative as it sounds. ;-).

Basically it's about creative problem solving based on solution focused brief therapy. Seriously-- get it!!

Much love doll ....

Last edited by Minxxa; 10-30-2011 at 01:10 AM.
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  #292  
Old 10-31-2011, 06:10 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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I have always stuffed anger and now I am expressing it more with Sundance. It is so hard living together but "separated." I am not doing it very gracefully right now.

We are seeing a counselor a week from today. Hopefully that will help -- at least I won't be doing it alone! None of you has been able to see Sundance in action -- ha. It's no wonder he's too scared to come here. I can't imagine what that counselor is going to make of all this! Maybe Sundance thinks he'll be able to use his charm -- good luck, because this time we're seeing a male therapist. Hard to charm with just words on a screen, he is well aware of that. He relies on his looks for practically everything -- even though I've said before, he's really good with words. But this is too much like.... WORK, right??? And it's ongoing. The counseling session lasts, what, an hour???? He probably figures he can shmooze his way through that. With a male therapist all he has to do is cry a little, talk about his father issues, show he is soft inside, etc.

Actually, I'm so mad, the therapist MIGHT see my as a psycho!

But what I'm most mad about is the lies, and if I can point out a few of them to the third party, and he catches him in a few, he will see what I'm dealing with.

Okay, enough writing scripts. I'm just struggling.
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  #293  
Old 10-31-2011, 06:38 PM
MichelleZed MichelleZed is offline
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Hugs to you, Carma. I honestly don't know what to advise in your situation--it's all way over my head.

Sundance exhibits really bizarre lying behaviour. Saying he wasn't going to stay over night, but then packing his stuff to stay over night? It's just... weird. What do you do with that?
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  #294  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:04 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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STOP! STOP anticipating how things MIGHT go in therapy and make a list of items you want to address (give a copy to the therapist). I can guarantee you that you will NOT get to even half the stuff on your list, if you even get past the first thing. Most therapists aren't unfamiliar with dealing with "charming" personalities and know how to get to the real issues. So have some faith and go in with a positive mindset and your list to keep YOU from being distracted.
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  #295  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:37 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I'd like to second what SN said and add stop worrying about how everyone is going to be perceived. Sun as the liar or charmer you as a psycho. None of that will be constructive unless the purpose is to just look backwards assess blame.

Why can't you find grace for a week? I'm sure you can do that, I'm sure you've done much harder things. Your goal is civility and stability in the house...mission statement. Stay focused and don't let yourself be suckered off point. Good luck ...this tape will self destruct in 30 seconds. Cue match and music....
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  #296  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:40 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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I agree you definitely need to make a list and give it to the therapist ahead of time. Put LYING/TRUST as the #1 issue. As much as other issues are a problem, it all comes back to trust.

I guarantee your therapist is used to having people try to play their games with them, and is going to not take everything either one of you says as absolute truth. It will take time, though for the therapist to get a feel for each of your personalities and listen to you talk enough to start to grasp some of the underlying issues. Not to mention that each person's "truth" is coming from their own perspectives and through their own viewpoints, with all of the crap that comes with that, and that's part of their job, to help figure out what is going on with all of that.

Many people think that if they are "playing" the therapist and they don't call them on it straight up (or on the first visit), that they're somehow fooling them. But any good therapist is #1 going to take time to get to know everyone, and #2 not call someone a liar, even if they think they're not getting the truth. They will, however, ask questions and get people thinking for themselves.

Hopefully a third party will be able to at least get the communication moving about these subjects without all of the recriminations, accusations and the gaslighting. He's definitely trying to make you second guess yourself to take the heat off himself-- and it's mostly likely worked well all of these years so he's probably confused as to why it's not working anymore.
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  #297  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:44 AM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Sundance stayed the night with Barbie last night, I stayed home with the kids and it was a GREAT night! I felt more peace than I've felt in a long time. He called at 8:00 to check that everything was ok at home, I said we're all doing fine. He tried his usual tact, "Well, I'm not sure I'm fine, I miss being home...." but I cheerfully cut him off and said, "It's only one night, don't worry, you'll be here tomorrow." We said goodbye and I focused on the kids all night and never once swirled like I did LAST Wednesday. (Last Wednesday he had all kinds of schemes running, as you recall, saying he's not staying, when all the while he had his stuff packed; and saying he was staying at a hotel, and saying she was only going to be with him til 10:00....) My head was swirling with his lies, and this week there weren't any! Except the "I miss you....." one, but he may miss what he wished were possible, anyway. The same way I do sometimes. But I don't miss the reality of what our marriage had become. (And I'm sure he wasn't missing home too much when Barbie put it all down, DUH! )

I have seen Butch a few times, but we've kept it platonic and friendly, and that has been terrific too. His heart is still very weak, and he's been feeling strange. So aside from the fact that he doesn't really want to get tangled up in my marital drama again, we are both respecting the limitations of his heart, i.e. sex could KILL him! He is such an incredible man. You wouldn't even believe the shit he's gone through, and he still holds his head up. I would be curled up in a ball if I were him.

I'm so glad I had so much support through this process. I wish we could all meet in person so I could give you each a big hug. Please accept a cyber squeeze as the best I can do.
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  #298  
Old 11-03-2011, 02:03 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Props to you Carma! I'm glad that evening went well for all involved.
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  #299  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:20 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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I really like how you focused on you while he was at Barbie's and didn't let him draw you into his stuff when he called. Sounds like it's working for you to figure out what you want and need and let him be doing his own figuring. Just keep that attitude when you're at the counselor's and you should reap a lot more benefit from the session!
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  #300  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:37 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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That's good to hear Carma.

I'm glad you're finding some peace and some time to think about yourself and your kidlets.

Virtual hugs back!
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