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  #281  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:54 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Carma, I sent you a PM.

I agree with Mags and NYCINDIE.

this is NRE. It is not love. Not that it couldn't be eventually, but do not mix up hormones and drama and excitement for love.
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  #282  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:02 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Carma, I feel for you. You so want to believe in the good in people, yet it's so much harder for you to believe in yourself.

You need to find your strength, and stick to it. Don't let Sundance's skillful deceit and Barbie's googly-eyed NRE convince you that they have a purer love, nor that you are any less than someone who has stayed by him and loved him unconditionally all these years. You seem to always second-guess yourself and let others turn you around. This is a time when you need to stand up for what is good for you.
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Last edited by nycindie; 10-28-2011 at 04:07 PM.
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  #283  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:27 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Hon,

Diddlysquat has changed. I want you to consider something.

Barbie is totally irrelevant. She doesn't matter. Why? Because if she wasn't in the picture, there would be some other poor sod of a woman. She's the excuse for the behavior, not the cause. She is not who you need to be talking with. You need to talk with Sundance. And I'm not seeing that happening. Rather, he seems to be putting everything on you - you change and I'll be fine. You do this - give up Butch and I'll be happy. Go back to Butch and I'll be happy. Psych! No I won't be happy.

Don't waste your time and mental energy on Barbie - and not because she's evil or undeserving. She seems like a woman in love with poor boundaries. Please forgive me for poking at old wounds, but who does that remind you of? Talking/texting her gets you nothing. Just distractions from the central problem which is Sundance's apparent inability to grow, to indicate what he really wants and needs and communiate that. You spin off into fantasyland about the two of you being friends. Or Sundance getting whatever it is he wants. He's already got everything he wants and he's stilll fucking miserable.

You can't do a goddamn thing to make him happier. Give him Barbie on a platter. Never see Butch again. Make yourself his slavish loving wife. He will still be a miserable person because he does not seem to 1) have a sense of self or 2) his self is so strong that no one else really exists - i.e. a sociopath. You can do nothing to help. You can only save yourself and protect the kids (not from him, I've heard nothing to indicate he treats them poorly but protect them from this messed up situation while it gets sorted out).

Why spend so much energy on her? Telling her the 'truth' won't do her any good - she won't believe you and she certainly isn't in control of the relationship anyway. And telling her won't do you any good except maybe to get it off your chest to someone. (Telling the intertubes is not the same as telling a real, live person.)

And why again can't he move out? Financial? I know you won't deny him access to the children - he appears to be a good father. I just don't see this 'roommates' thing going well for you, or for him. If he is out of the house, I see you starting to get a mental and emotional handle on things.

And, hugs.
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  #284  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:53 PM
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rory rory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
And why again can't he move out? Financial? I know you won't deny him access to the children - he appears to be a good father. I just don't see this 'roommates' thing going well for you, or for him. If he is out of the house, I see you starting to get a mental and emotional handle on things.
I second this opinion so strongly. It would be good for you and good for the kids if you would actually separate. Children can tell there's something going on. I don't see forcing a roommate situation when both of you are really emotional and in a total mess being beneficial to them.
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  #285  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:25 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I think your definition of "roommates" is quite a bit different than mine. I was thinking that it would be more curiosity type contact ....Jr. has a game on Friday night are you planning to make that. That kind of stuff, family info, kid related schedules. Here's your mail. Not what nights he's coming home or good night sleep well calls.

I'm sorry but I find it really funny you can track him by his blow dryer and hair products. I don't think I've used one since high school or college.


It sounded like you had enough and it over as you both had known it. Now you can clearly and cleanly have Butch (Sun no longer cares ) live as roommates and each gets their romantic and sexual needs met with outside partners. Isn't that how he see's it. And the trouble is in breaking old habits like checking in or good night phone calls....or his being a liar. So if that was working on a basic level, you need to tell him the boundaries of this new dynamic. Please don't call to check it, please don't set up expectations of some act or action then not follow through.

Is there any possibility that this started out (for Sun) as pay back. He wanted you to feel the pain that he felt? And with his extensive dating history he really didn't plan on falling for Barbie it just creeped up on him. Have some laughs, some hot sex, heal a few wounds, share some hair care products or lotions and call it a day. Falling in Love was never part of the plan, maybe?

I think the counselor might be able to help you both figure out what is that you both ..REALLY want and what steps you need to take to get there.

Last edited by dingedheart; 10-28-2011 at 07:12 PM.
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  #286  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:01 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I think your definition of "roommates" is quite a bit different than mine. I was thinking that it would be more curiosity type contact ....Jr. has a game on Friday night are you planning to make that. That kind of stuff, family info, kid related schedules. Here's your mail. Not what nights he's coming home or good night sleep well calls.
Yeah, it's not working out too well yet, this roommate idea.


Quote:
It sounded like you had enough and it over as you both had known it. Now you can clearly and cleanly have Butch (Sun no longer cares )
But what about what Butch thinks? Being with Carma right now is probably just a wee bit stressful...

Quote:
live as roommates...
Seems like Carma works 3 overnights a week, caring for her grandparents. Sun has a 4 hour daily commute, plus his 8 hour workday. Hard to say how fully separating will work what with 4 young kids at home.
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  #287  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:08 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Mags,
Sorry, but Butch has been silent on the sideline for so long he's lost his voice now. . It very unfair but life's unfair. And really isn't this a time when carma could really use the support, seem kind of fair weather or now that Sun doesn't care he's lost interest? Either way that"s not going to fly....he"s still in like it or not.
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  #288  
Old 10-29-2011, 05:48 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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You guys are all so freaking awesome. I have so much to think about. So much to chew on. WOW, I have never felt so much support and love as I am getting from all of you. You can all see so much more clearly than I can, it's AMAZING sometimes (and kinda freaks me out!) I'll be back on later.
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  #289  
Old 10-29-2011, 08:21 PM
marksbabygirl marksbabygirl is offline
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Carma - everyone can see clearly because we are not mired in emotion and history and children and family and finances.

You are.

But if you go back and read YOUR story - but read it as if it were someone else - what would you tell them? How would you advise them?

Once you've clearly laid out the advice you'd give another - then TAKE IT. Take the advice, and move forward.

You deserve so much better than what you've laid out here.
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  #290  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:05 AM
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Carma Carma is offline
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I keep trying to avoid a real separation, even though I think in so many ways it would be A LOT better, much healthier for me. Believe it or not, no, my kids really don't know the "D" word is coming, and the thought of it for the boys devastates me. But if I stay like this they are going to have a crazy dad AND a crazy mom!

FROM Magdlyn:
Quote:
I can tell she will do or say ANYTHING to help Sundance, including begging me to love him!
How pointless and rude. You've tried to love that handsome gym-pumped, hair-gelled lying shallow bastard and what does it get you?

Hahaha Mags!
You are so right -- I HAVE tried to love him! I have tried like hell. And it's BEEN hell. Who could ever fawn over someone like that enough, ever???

[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]FROM opalescent:
You can't do a goddamn thing to make him happier. Give him Barbie on a platter. Never see Butch again. Make yourself his slavish loving wife. He will still be a miserable person because he does not seem to 1) have a sense of self or 2) his self is so strong that no one else really exists - i.e. a sociopath. You can do nothing to help.

You said it, sister. But my EGO (or my wanting to see the best in people, like nyc said) keeps telling me I CAN love him enough. And of course, HE gets me to believe everything is my fault, because I wouldn't love him. Well, of course he does. I swear, when I write it down here and I read it back, all in black and white, it's so OBVIOUS (yes, marksbabygirl). But living with him is twisting me up really bad.

He keeps saying he hasn't given up hope. Last night he said "There's still a flame here, you know." And I said, "Of course there is, but let's not get burned by it again!"

He is a master at sucking me in. I guess when I want to believe it's possible, I suck him back in, too, without being manipulative or intentionally misleading. I am struggling to keep the TRUTH in the forefront, you know? I have lived a lie for too long -- and you know, even a couple months is too long!!!

Our finances are a fucking nightmare. Credit - in the gutter. I doubt we could sell our house for what it's worth. My job watching my grandparents -- they give me a stipend for gas, etc., but nothing to show on a rental application or anything. So I have to do some freaky shit, guys, and I'm scared! Overhaul my entire life! So yeah, I keep caving in to Sundance, and putting up with his BS, because I don't have a whole lot of options, AND, I think if it really comes down to asking him to leave, he could get REALLY crazy.

I need to do things step by step, but the first step is making the decision, which you are all helping with, immensely. Unfortunately, most of the people in my life are charmed enough with Sundance, AND, they know the turmoil the kids and I are going to be headed into. Most people just hate to see a marriage and a family break up, and i hate to be the one to cause everyone so much sadness. Isn't that goofy?! I know. I felt the same thing when I divorced my first husband. I didn't want people to be sad for me! Even though if they knew the true hell I'd been living, they would have encouraged me to leave years ago. I was good at playing along, and I'm doing it again -- playing "Happy Family." Believe me, it's Sundance's favorite show, too, which I'm sure is no surprise to any of you! Image man. Yes, Dinged, the blowdryer and hair products DO tell all.

I am trying so hard to detach from him, from his behavior and his lies. Shouldn't I be able to do that??? I know I should. But it's such a quick turnaround, I guess my head is still swimming. This NRE has turned him into a lunatic. But just because it will likely wear off, eventually, doesn't mean he won't just move on to another girl to feed his ego. I think something has snapped in him, and he is totally addicted to the high. (I've mentioned before that Sundance was EXTREMELY promiscuous before he met me. I think that was just in remission, or something).

Oh -- about my conversation with Barbie, you're right , I did get kinda romantic about the things she said, it's true. And that was dumb of me. HOWEVER, it's a good thing -- because if I blow Sundance's cover, DUH, he'll be slinking back to me, and he'll be resentful! I'm not sure I want to be responsible for "torpedoing" his love affair AS HE ALREADY ACCUSED ME OF, after I had the text conversation with her..... (He claimed she was upset about it, and that she told him she is walking away, to give our marriage a chance. Like hell she is!!! I never said ANYTHING to make her feel that way. I know that is total BS). No, no, no -- at this point, I don't want to blow his cover with her -- if she loves his image, and he can keep her believing it, goody for him. They could honestly be a match made in heaven!

I've gotta do this one day at a time. But thanks to ALL of you and your perspective, and your kindness and your time, I can stand my ground for another day and not give in to his sweet lies. I was hoping I could manage to put up with it long enough to go back to school -- he said he'd put me through, so I can get my Masters, get a job at the college, and the kids could get free tuition. That is the only college plan we've got, with our crappy finances.

I think I'm too "nice" to pull this off. "Nice" = easily manipulated, doesn't it? My daughter told me to read, "Why Men Love Bitches." She said it will change my outlook, haha!
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