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  #21  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:56 AM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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*shrug* that part is up to you.

It is always your choice to see how a glass is filled.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2011, 05:15 AM
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Arrow open up

at the risk of sounding snarky...
chill, DoctorBones. Open up. If necessary refrain from checking this thread until in the company of a tall shotglass of Jamesons and the quiet of your mind.
The cultivation of resilience will help you survive...
as will the folks in this forum. Give it time and invite all comers to comment.
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  #23  
Old 08-09-2011, 05:44 AM
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How quickly things turn to shit.
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  #24  
Old 08-09-2011, 06:19 AM
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I was sincere in offering my viewpoint, in the spirit of tough love. I am not a hostile person but I am blunt. What I said about looking in the mirror and growing up was said to me once by my therapist (he didn't ask me if I had balls, but he did say if I had pubic hair it was time to grow up), and it was the best thing he ever could have said to me. I never forgot it. Why should I paint it with rainbows and daisies to tell you you're having a tantrum and creating a bad situation for yourself and the people you love? Most people don't realize we can think ourselves into being upset -- and we can stop doing that, too. But remember Jane and her problem. You asked if you should burden her with how left out and hurting you feel about not getting her good energy flowing your way anymore. And I say, "Really? Her daughter's been molested and you can't stop thinking of yourself?" I'm not hiding behind the computer to put you down -- I'm just telling it like it is to shake you awake, man. You're asleep at the wheel. Sorry you don't like how I deliver a dose of reality, but I was offering what I said to be helpful.
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Last edited by nycindie; 08-09-2011 at 06:21 AM.
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  #25  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:59 AM
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I'm going to ignore the rudeness of some of the other posters and tell you what I am hearing.

I'm not seeing this as a complete co-dependant issue. Maybe to some extent yes. But most of what I am seeing is someone who is reacting to the situations around them.

You are getting down on yourself for being upset over what is going on in Janes life and I am wondering why? If you care for someone and they are hurting do you not have the right to hurt for them? It would seem to me that it would be a very cruel dark world if others did not try to understand the pain someone they love is going through.

And on top of that you are dealing with a new dynamic with your life and the whole of both situations is leaving completely out of whack.

Seems pretty understandable to me.

And to be honest I'm mad at this man for what he's done, so why the hell can't you be? Not only has he hurt people you care for, but in doing that he has taken away the joy you should be experiencing in building a relationship. I think you have every right to be upset with him.

Now I don't think it should be all consuming. And that is where I do find a degree of co-dependancy. Because instead of having these justified feelings but seperating them from your day to day, you are allowing them to consume you.

I don't know Jane or how she is handling or reacting to things but I will tell you this, and maybe it's different because we had been together so long at that point but regardless, about 4 yrs ago I was diagnosed with cevical cancer. I was scared, lost, angry and a ton of other emotions. But mostly I was hurt and confused because Karma wouldn't discuss it with me. He'd hold me when I cried and went to Dr's apts, but I didn't know how he felt and I that left me feeling worse. Almost like he didn't care. When I finaly confronted him about it he said it was the opposite. He was scared as well, but he didn't feel he had the right to burden me with his emotions because I was the one facing it.

Maybe this is just me, but I needed to know he was scared. I needed to know he was feeling something!

This is a huge trauma for her, and while she doesn't need burdened with a large dose of guilt or co dependancy, I would think that sharing your anger at this man, and sharing the pain you feel for her and her daughter, would show her the depth of your feelings for her.

It's not a matter of laying it on her and expecting her to fix it for you, as much as it is sharing the pain. The Irish saying "Shared sorrow is half sorrow and shared joy is double joy." comes to mind. I don't understand how one can have a healthy relationship without sharing both sorrow and joy. Your not laying it on her shoulders to carry for you, as much as you are offering to carry it together.

At least that's how I see it.

Yes I do think you need some self work in the matter of letting everything going on be the driving force of your emotional state. But I honestly do not feel you are in the wrong for having the emotions you are having.

And one final snipet of advice. When you do speak with Jane or spend time with her, try not to allow everything to be the whole of your time together. Let her take the lead on if she wants to discuss it or not. Offer some distraction, take her out if she's up for it. Stay in and pamper her with a good meal, a movie, a back and foot rub. I love knowing that Karma will share burdens with me, but I also love knowing that it is not the whole of our relationship. He tries hard to give me little breaks of joy in the midst of sorrow.
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  #26  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:32 PM
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When I'm going through a crisis, it helps when people show me they believe that it will all work out, that I am strong enough to handle it. More than anything, I need their faith in me, when I'm feeling doubtful or overwhelmed.

Remind her that the good guys always win. Although, with evil, you may lose battles, but you will win the war. There is LOTS of injustice in this world. You can't let it drag you down into despair.

Hang in there, DB. I'm glad you had the moment in the car the other day. Lighthearted, positive upbeat music can do wonders.
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  #27  
Old 08-09-2011, 03:18 PM
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@NYCindie:

Maybe you're not trying to be nasty, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. But there's a world of difference between bluntness and contempt, and your first post in this thread virtually seethes with the latter. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Obviously, I'm hurt and stressed out and not entirely in my right mind right now. I have to own that.

But I felt your post was insulting, as if you were just throwing my words back in my face along with a few good slaps. Maybe that's how your therapist works. Maybe that's how your therapist works with *you*, having made some observations about he/she can best get through to you and help you see what you need to see. I don't know you so I can only speculate. But you came on like a drill sergeant and put my back up against the wall.

Which is unfortunate. You make some good points. But the way in which you deliver them - wow.
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  #28  
Old 08-09-2011, 04:54 PM
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Yes, you did read too much into it. Of course I'm not trying to be nasty - of what use is that? Contempt is not something I ever invest in. I have enough crap going on in my life, that's not how I get my jollies. If what I wrote had been said to you in person, you would have heard the gentle but firm tough love in my voice, and felt my hand on your arm, shaking you a bit. Again, sorry to have come on so strong, but often that is what works. Lots of people here have told me me that they didn't like "hearing" what I had to say at first, only to thank me later after they saw how the bluntness reverberated for a while and actually helped them. Yeah, a drill sergeant isn't always a bad thing.

Now, stop focusing on the delivery and try to focus on the message, from me and other folks. I believe the consensus is that there is some self-work needed and that while Jane would appreciate your support, it would be too much to lay on her how much you feel like she's been taken away from you. Jane needs to know that you are there for her. I think it is also significant that this is a fairly new relationship between you and her -- perhaps you may be wrapping yourself up too much in it to avoid looking at other stuff (feelings). Your wife is likely in NRE and you are feeling left out everywhere.

It isn't enough to admit to co-dependency, that is just the first step. So much work needs to be done to free oneself. Carma mentioned Al-Anon earlier and I think that's an excellent suggestion if you believe co-dependency is your issue and you want to get a handle on it. A friend of mine goes and it's been hugely helpful, even though his co-dependency issues have nothing to do with alcoholism.
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Click here to find out why the Polyamorous Misanthrope is feeling disgusted.

Last edited by nycindie; 08-10-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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  #29  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:10 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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the reason I asked what exactly brought you to tears was to see if you thought upon reflection it out of proportion ...or unwarranted under the circumstance. From what I read ...(.I could be wrong ) I think that the swirl of emotions surrounding your wife's relationship are bubbling out at any opportunity they can find.

Did you do the naked exercise to check your manhood? what ...why would that be insulting. wait ...next someone may tell you to get your balls out of your wife's purse....not at all insulting just a really good suggestion ...in the spirit problem solving.

If drama and emotions are not your thing this is going to be very hard for you regardless of the codependency issues.

Who's idea was it to open your marriage?

Good luck D
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:58 AM
ihaveasecret ihaveasecret is offline
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Default selfishness in relationships

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBones View Post
Despite, or even because of, everything I'm about to describe, I still love her powerfully.
The above sentence is what stands out for me. I find it the most interesting in everything you wrote. What do you mean when you say "despite or because of" the events that transpired that you "still" love her? That would imply that her circumstance might merit some reason not to love her, wouldn't it? When you love someone, don't you love them no matter what? Or do you think there are reasons that you would voluntarily take your love away?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBones View Post
She's barely holding together, and it's killing me to watch.

I'm becoming aware that I have a MASSIVE problem with codependency that is making this situation almost unbearable for me. Jane is just trying not to fall apart. I'm dealing with more anger than I have ever experienced in my life, and I can't figure out where the anger leaves off and the crushing depression begins.

...

At the same time, I'm having trouble here at home too. My wife has recently started dating a really nice guy who she really, really likes, and I'm finding that I'm experiencing far more jealousy and insecurity over this than I expected. I find it very hard to know that she has a sexual relationship with this man, despite the fact that this has taken absolutely nothing away from me and that it contributes to her being happy. Again, raging codependency.
So, what are you doing to address this codependency? What ways do you think you can go about resolving it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBones View Post
an uncomfortably large chunk of it is selfish anger at him for depriving me of the flow of Jane's positive energy toward me. I've never learned to take good emotional care of myself and I feel abandoned despite the fact that she didn't, and never would, choose this. I have managed to take her crushing personal crisis and make it about me. That's pretty messed up and I'm slightly ashamed to admit it.

The most important thing I can do here, I think, is to learn to live for myself so that I can go without that validation and positive energy when they aren't available, and still be happy.
Wow. That's... wow. It is extremely important that you realized this and admitted it, but I think even more important (and urgent!) that you unravel it. How is it even possible that you would think of yourself when a loved one is in such turmoil and upheaval? I cannot fathom that kind of thinking... Is that something from a deepseated feeling of loss, a childhood thing, or old relationship issues? If you seek counseling, this is something not to be ignored, certainly.

I also wonder why your so focused on "how to be happy" when someone needs you. Not that you don't deserve happiness, but we can't be happy every day, and certainly not during times of crisis. Satisfaction, feeling grounded, yes, but "I want to be happy" when someone you love is having her world torn apart? I thinkl your focus is very, very off kilter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorBones View Post
Every fiber of my being is screaming for relief and I want so badly to engage in all my codependent behaviors, especially to tell Jane how I'm feeling and try to cry on her shoulder despite the terrible pain of her own that she's experiencing. When she asks, and I know she will because that's part of who she is (and part of why I love her), I'll tell her the truth about how I'm struggling.
This (above) sounds like someone who enters into relationships mostly for what he can get out of them. So, what do you give?

Maybe that is the way out of codependency (besides some real soul-seraching honesty and therapy). There is a school of thought that people should give what they want to get, and that is where satisfaction lies. This could be the key for both your relationships - offer the things you want, and try not to look for a return. You might be surprised.

Last edited by ihaveasecret; 08-10-2011 at 01:44 AM.
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