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  #251  
Old 07-27-2012, 06:10 PM
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The conversation with Bob went well. Even though I've told him from the start that I don't want anything serious with him, he thought that my words and actions were contradictory and suspected that I did want something more with him anyway. We cleared that up and now we're hopefully on the same page again. I had to come to a conclusion that my actions represent my feelings (I like him) and that he's used to being treated like that only when someone wants to be his partner. I had to explain to him the difference between my feelings and my rational decisions, that I don't just go with the feelings whenever I have them. I make my decisions based on many different things and feelings are just one of them. Even though I like him, we just can't be partners and I know that. And even though I know that, I still treat him with the same tenderness that I would with anyone I have feelings for. So I guess that's where things got confusing for him. Then we also concluded that we're friends first and the benefits are only a bonus. If sex is making things too difficult, we want to save the friendship and stop the sex. It hasn't come to that yet but at least we know now what's the most important thing for us and that's friendship. It was a good conversation.
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  #252  
Old 08-01-2012, 02:31 PM
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I had a really nice skype call with rory today. First we talked about stuff that had happened and stuff that was on our minds but then after a few hours we started looking for jobs and apartments in Dream City, both surfing on our own computers and commenting on the different things we found. It was such a sweet moment of sharing everyday life, like we were sitting next to each other doing our own things even though we're in different countries. I totally enjoyed it.

I think my feelings for Bob are diminishing. I'm just realising more and more every day how incompatible we are and how he doesn't make me feel as good as he used to. I do still want to see him and I care about him but let's just say I'm not going to be totally heartbroken when we go our separate ways soon.
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  #253  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:21 PM
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Yesterday I was at Bob's and we had a final closing conversation about whether we're compatible or not. I've had a feeling about this from the start. This is what I thought about him when I first started having any kind of non-platonic feelings for him:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
I don't have a crush on him, he's not someone I would date (too masculine), but I find myself thinking about him just sexually.
And a bit later:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
Me and Bob can't have a relationship. --- To top it off, I'm not even sure we would be that compatible, but this one I'm not really sure about yet, since I'm still getting to know him better.
The masculinity. That is basically the problem. We came to the conclusion that I need someone softer / more feminine than him and he needs someone tougher / more masculine than me (remember the bitchyness comment?). It just wouldn't work. I know this isn't anything new but somehow yesterday we just saw it all so clearly together. He even called it a breakthrough. I felt so calm and relieved after that discussion. At one point I asked him what do we see in each other, why are we still somehow drawn to each other. He said that maybe we just want to learn from each other. I think that sounds kinda accurate. I find him very interesting in a way, because he's such a complicated person and works so differently than me. I just like to observe his ways which I find fascinating but yet so incompatible with mine. So yeah. I'm happy to continue learning from each other as friends. This isn't going anywhere else unless one or both of us changes a lot.
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  #254  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:57 AM
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I think me and JJ are going to break up. He is so good to me and such a good partner, but something has happened and we haven't been close for a while now. We've become so distant that we're more like roommates than partners. Maybe we're just not feeling like we used to. He annoys me a lot even though he isn't doing anything differently than before, so that must be all me. We don't enjoy each other's company like we used to. We appreciate and respect each other and care about each other, but is that enough? Why should we go on like this?
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  #255  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:56 AM
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The visit to Home Country was mostly good, I had a lovely time with Mya. After that I've just been organising load of stuff for moving, i.e. mostly job hunting. I fluctuate between being excited and a little stressed out and being a ball of anxiety. The latter is getting more pronounced as it's getting closer (3 weeks, fucking hell!).

However, there was a huge relief that realised itself as Alec got a job offer (or rather, a few of them). It's all still a bit unclear around whereabouts his job will be in Dream City (which is making flat search challenging) but either way he should have the kind of work he's been unable to do here. I can't tell you people how happy I am about that. It's a load off our shoulders about our immediate financial survival, and on top of that, it is also really promising that things will be better for both of us in Dream City, which is tied to questions about future in this country.

I wrote earlier about boundaries around finances. I've been insanely happy with that decision. Helps, of course, that Alec has gotten a job so quickly, but that is not the biggest thing. I've felt great about the fact that we've been able to have really good, balanced discussions about all the future stuff, without him going on defensive and me letting my fear drive my actions. And I do feel like I trust Alec more, now that I've been able to let go of the controlling; I've been seeing that he does a lot, he has his own style, and it seems to be working well for him. And I haven't felt like the burden of responsibility lies on my shoulders when I've allowed him to do his share and kept out of some things entirely. Very happy about the positive developments.

I can't believe it's only 3 weeks until I live in the same city with Mya. So cool! At times it's hard to focus on that with all the stress getting in the way, but so cool. Yay!

I do have a bit of the old "how can I be enough for two partners who are both living in the same city" fear, an issue about which I'm realistically not too worried about. Emotions, if only they were rational. It's simply the change and the fact that I'm feeling so stressed out and expect that to be the situation in Dream City for some time as well. I do know that fears about 'not being enough'/'people expecting stuff from me'/'potentially having to make boundaries' do tend to coincide with feeling exhausted with other stuff. The moments when I feel like I'm too tired to do anything are the ones when I most need boundaries (i.e. time and space for myself) and the ones when I really wouldn't have the energy to make/enforce those (because I'll then have to manage guilt, too, which is exhausting). Btw, in advance dreading this kind of thing has very little to do with what I expect my partners to want for me (I do trust that both of them are interested in my well being) and more to do with simply mostly-irrational fears.

It is funny, really, how digging revealed again guilt at the bottom of one anxiety. Huh... (Sorry about the likely incoherence of this post.)
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Last edited by rory; 08-10-2012 at 08:09 AM.
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  #256  
Old 08-14-2012, 09:02 AM
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I noticed something recently about how I make decisions. I don't think I'm following the poly handbook on this.

It's been a long time since I came to the conclusion that once I live in the same place with Mya, I would like to spend two nights a week with her. I've mentioned it here, and I've mentioned it to Alec, but that was a while back, and we expected that to happen later. However, now we are all three moving to Dream City (yay!!).

So, I got this feeling that I need to talk with Alec again, and tell him that once we've moved, I will want to spend two nights a week with Mya. Firstly, he needs the information and, secondly, I want to hear how he feels about it. Yet, I felt that whatever his feelings might be, this wouldn't be something I was prepared to negotiate.

That is something that got me thinking. In a poly situation, aren't you supposed to be willing to negotiate on things? To be willing to take everybody's feelings into account? Is there perhaps something wrong, am I being selfish, when I have already decided this and talked about it with Mya, without giving Alec the chance to voice his opinion? After all, it is a change and it affects him quite a bit.

But no. I did realise something here. While I really really want to have those two nights a week with Mya, that is not the reason why I am unwilling to negotiate. What I want is this concrete thing. What I need goes deeper than that. What I need in a relationship is autonomy, and that is not negotiable.

Alec and I had the talk.
me: "I was thinking, once we are in Dream City, I will be spending two nights a week with Mya."
Alec: "right"
me: "you have thoughts on that..?"
Alec: "What can I say? You'll do whatever you want to do."

Some part of me feels like I'm breaking some cultural relationship-code when I won't argue with that, telling him "oh no come on I want your opinion so we can make a compromiseee". Like I'm being selfish.

However, I want to be honest. And honestly, what he said is the truth in its purest form. I will, indeed, do what I want to do. That doesn't mean I will act on every whim I get, I mean what I actually want, including all the aspects of my life. In there many things are present including my relationships with my partners.

I don't think I am being selfish. I think I am being true to myself, and that I have high expectations my partners. I expect them to, firstly, trust that I will make decisions which value and uphold the relationship with them. I will make time for them, because I want to do so and because the relationship is important to me. Secondly, if they feel like they are not getting what they want in their relationship with me, I expect them to do something. One option is for them to talk to me about it and see if we can find a solution that will make all happy. But if such cannot be found, and what I am choosing to do is causing them to be unhappy, they also have the responsibility to change things for themself, i.e. leave the relationship.

It doesn't come down to selfishness though my social conditioning regarding gender and romantic relationships would try to tell me so. It comes down to what I need in a relationship. I need autonomy. I need my partner to be both supportive of that autonomy and able to handle what it means for their life. If they need a relationship where decisions are made as a team, if they need a couple relationship, our needs just aren't compatible, and they need to stay true to that as I will stay true to my need for autonomy.
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Last edited by rory; 08-14-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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  #257  
Old 08-14-2012, 09:37 AM
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Poly handbook be damned! I love how you explained your process and insights. I think poly women should hold you up as a role model - I'm totally serious. Autonomy is so important in any relationship, it's a shame so many people don't get that.
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  #258  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:02 AM
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I totally agree with nycindie. And I also think more people should value autonomy more. Rory's attitude makes me feel like I'm just as important as Alec and she is the one deciding how and when we get to see each other and I don't have to wait around for Alec's permission. Obviously I care about what Alec is feeling but I just wouldn't be comfortable with him and rory deciding what can and can't happen in my and rory's relationship. I also feel like me and rory are a good match in many ways and this is one of them. We both value autonomy very much and couldn't have a "traditional" we-decide-everything-together-as-a-couple type of relationship.
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  #259  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:22 AM
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My relationship life is a mess right now regarding everything else but rory. We're doing perfectly fine. Me and JJ on the other hand are one discussion away from a divorce. I don't think there's anything at the moment that could make things better. There is a chance for getting back together at some point but I think I just need that ending point first. And if we do feel like trying again, we have to commit to it, really try hard and fix everything that's broken. Right now I don't have the motivation to do that. I need a break from the unhappy situation as it is now.

I saw Bob yesterday for the last time before I leave the country. It was a very emotional visit. He's also breaking up with his girlfriend so we tried to support each other with our break-ups. I saw something in him that night that I haven't seen before. Something very soft, emotional and vulnerable. All of a sudden I forgot everything I've ever thought about us not being compatible. He moved something inside me. Why now? Why did this have to happen on my last visit? Right now I'm feeling very sad that we're not going to be in the same place soon. That man is driving me crazy. I feel like I'm sort of addicted to him. Like I know he's not good for me (or do I? I keep questioning myself), but I keep coming back and wanting more. Well, this thing in its current form is going to end anyway no matter what I think about it. Dream City is where I want to be, no question about that. But man, this is harder than I thought.
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  #260  
Old 08-14-2012, 02:10 PM
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rory - I find your point about autonomy interesting. Sago and I also really value this, and it's the foundation of how we respect each other.

When I ask S for his opinion about the things I want, he often replies in a similar fashion to Alec, i.e. true statement acknowledging my autonomy.

However, it seems what I often need in these situations is to hear whether this is something he can cope with, that he's okay to accommodate... that sort of thing. Usually he doesn't know for sure (who does) but if it's raising any flags for him I want to know. Even if it won't ultimately change my wants/needs... I do still genuinely want to understand his perspective on it so I can feed that back in to how I behave, or consider my own options.

One of the best things S ever said to me was "I care about our relationship too much to fuck it up by not communicating with you when I need to, if something is bothering me." With that understanding, I think we can navigate many 'un-negotiable' needs/desires.

Mya - sorry to hear about things tense with JJ, and also sad with Bob.

Good luck with your move, all of you. Lots of love
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