Partly Venting / Advice Needed

M

matt91cali

New member
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128227

Before I get started, I wanted to post the link above to my initial introduction to this forum community. And also to apologize in advance, as this is going to be the longest post in a forum that I've ever done. So, I'm sorry for the following novel. :D

My Wife (F, 34, Bisexual) and I (M, 28, Straight) have been in the Lifestyle for a couple of years, her more so. She had started going to a Lifestyle club, just her and a couple of other curious female friends. They all went together for a while before she considered taking me as well. She had experiences as well, and would make sure that she would tell me whenever she played with anyone, without juicy details of course. It took quite some time for my Wife to be comfortable with me playing with other women, let alone have any experiences at all. After a little over a year, we were officially and successfully Swingers. We had switched to a more welcoming club since and continued from there. Now we're passed the Swingers part of it. (Trying to keep it short.)

So now, this new club looks and feels more like a house party. Everyone knows each other, they're friendly and all around just an awesome and welcoming group. My Wife had started going there first, had more solo experiences.
This was where one problem happened. I had still had restrictions on me and was not allowed any solo play, and still barely any experiences apart from Full Swaps as Swingers. So when I had finally said something about her having all these awesome experiences while I couldn't have any at all was bothering me. Never bothered me before, I am not jealous of her sexual activities. It was not this 'Exciting Adventure' she made being in the Lifestyle to be, because she was the only one living the adventure so to speak. We had argued plenty of times before that issue was resolved.

This club we go to now (house party) always has a different theme each weekend for the ladies and gents to dress the part. And one day a month, they host what is called 'Fet Night.' Very educational discussions for an hour, and Q&A sessions. Several months ago, my Wife mentioned the club was hosting Fet Night and Polyamory was the topic. She was excited to go, and hired a babysitter so we both could attend. So after the discussion was over that night, my Wife talked to me about exploring Polyamory with baby steps, but only her. Because she developed feelings for her FWB she had been playing with on her solo nights out. And after the wonderful discussion at the club, and after having all that information digesting, I gave her consent to pursue. It was light, at first. She always goes to the club every weekend with her boyfriend (at the time, she labelled him as her boyfriend but did not identify herself as Polyamorous yet), and on some occasions, we go together. The reason being we can't always get a babysitter. After a couple weeks we had arguments about me wanting to explore as well. Her view at the time was that it was not allowed, she is still getting used to it. Okay, that makes sense.

Another argument arised another day. Pretty much the same argument. Which I believed I was in the right, until she somehow turned it on me. I wanted to explore, because I felt like I was lonely whenever my Wife went on a date with her boyfriend. I believed that feeling was legitimate. Except this time, she emphasized that I need to work on my compersion and that this kind of Lifestyle is not 'Tit for Tat.' She says it makes her sick to her stomach thinking of me even just saying the word 'girlfriend.' And that her situation with her boyfriend is a 'special case.' Because she wasn't expecting or looking to have a boyfriend, that it just happened. And that she knows women, and that they are crazy, and no woman would respect our marriage the way her boyfriend does. And she also mentions her fears and insecurities that she'll lose me to another woman.

Now, I already know it's not about Tit for Tat. Ever since dipping her toes in the water, I have been doing plenty of research on Polyamory. But the argument came to a close, and she told me that I was now allowed to go to the club for solo nights. But ONLY on Fet Night. Because it's cheaper for single men that night. Okay, that's cool. I get to go out solo. But only once a month?

Alright, almost to present day. Promise! My Wife at this point identifies herself as Polyamorous, with a boyfriend and yours truly. She is actually now about to have surgery on her foot and will have a 6 week recovery.
But this is about the last 2 weeks before my current situation now. She visits her boyfriend every Wednesday and spends Friday-Sunday as well, these passed 3 weeks. I pick our son up from school on my way home from work, and she leaves about an hour before we get home. Son goes to bed, and I'm left alone until 10-11 at night. Sometimes I actually fall asleep before she gets back. Most of those nights, like any other time she's out with him, I'm stuck with this feeling of being lonely while she's gone, and the only thing I do is wish she were back home because of needing affection, a hug, conversation, etc.
But instead I try to drown those feelings with more self research and then Polyamorous research all over again. Those are Wednesday nights. On 2 of the Saturdays we 3 all went to the club, got stupid and fulfilled my Wife's MMF fantasy. I was very happy for her and to be a part of it. The oops here was that there's a condom rule outside of our marriage that was broken in process. She made the rule herself, we agreed on it. But she cut herself slack and said it was just in the heat of the moment. Okay. I did let it slide, even tho' it definitely bothered me. The 2nd Saturday, same thing happened except a condom was used.

This passed weekend, my Wife went on a road trip with her boyfriend to an event her boyfriend wanted to attend for a friend of his. That's when she was gone Friday-Sunday. The talk about me being lonely has been made apparent to all parties at this point. But anyway, before my Wife left for her road trip, she was talking to her boyfriend's best friend (who is very protective of my Wife's boyfriend). The chitchat was about the trip, and a comment was made where my Wife told the guy she had fallen in love with his best friend. Before I go on, we clarified it is okay for her to feel love for her boyfriend and vice versa. But now, she had said she fell in love with him. That was something that had hit me really hard, and she knew it. She could see it, and I confronted her about it. She apologized and said it didn't feel right to her either. And then she left with her boyfriend on their road trip. I had started texting her about me feeling lonely, and she straight up calls me a sad lovesick puppy. Uhhh, yea okay thanks?

Now fast-forward to modern times. She got back from her road trip, and is now prepping for her surgery at the end of the week. So naturally she's tired from the road trip and exhausted emotionally because she's about to be unable to walk or stand for 6 weeks. She's down and sad, but I try my darn best to reassure her everything will be okay. She has me and her boyfriend on the weekends while I'm at work Saturdays. She encourages me to continue to go out solo, to blow off steam and have social activity.

But here is my problem now. During her trip, I felt lonely. That lonely feeling was laughed at on the same day after the 'Fallen In Love' oops. My problem now is not only that. But that I've gotten more curious on Polyamory through my research, and my Wife's state of "Fulfillment."
But yet another problem is aftercare. On my part. Last 2 times my Wife and I had sex, her boyfriend was involved.
That was 2 and 3 weeks ago. So now I don't know what I'm feeling about it, but I would absolutely think one-on-one time is heavily needed.
And back to my interest in Polyamory. I still have that curiosity and interest in exploring as well.

I promise this is the last bit. My perspective, so to speak. I'm not gonna use the word 'unfair.' As much as I REALLY want to use it, that word always gets thrown back as if I'm asking Tit for Tat again. However I will say that is how I feel while my Wife is out with her boyfriend. It is my feeling and it is real. I am sharing the time, love, affection, attention and intimacy of my Wife with another man. So that would mean I'm not getting as much as I'm putting out into the Primary Relationship that is my marriage. I won't say it's unfair, but I really don't think I deserve to feel lonely as the Cause/Effect of entering a what seems to be one-sided Polyamorous relationship. I honestly don't think I do. And the fact that I have to just deal with my feelings while she's out with her boyfriend,
is beyond me. Especially when it seems like she is refusing to deal with her own feelings, fears and insecurities. I feel like not only am I dealing with my feelings, but also that I'm having to work around HERS. And THAT is what I define as unfair. (Yea, I said it.)

So any advice on how I should approach this would be greatly appreciated.

A Side Note: I am very, very happy for my Wife. In all seriousness and honesty, I am. And I do encourage her to keep dating this man, who is very respectful as my Wife has said. I gained a very good friend out of this. And I would not want them to break it off over issues that are between my Wife and I, because that is literally counterproductive, and each one of us could get really hurt and it would only breed resentment between us all.

Thanks again for reading! Any and all advice/thoughts greatly appreciated. Also wanting to know or clarify if whether or not the way I feel about this situation is right or wrong. Am I doing something wrong? Are my feelings and perspectives legitimate? Or am I really asking too much out of this newfound relationship?​
 
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matt91cali said:
... Thanks again for reading! Any and all advice/thoughts greatly appreciated.​
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The situation you describe doesn't conform to any particular relationship model, including the typical Western legal marriage ( the union of two persons to the exclusion of all others ) or polyamory ( details here ). Without a relatively objective baseline, our opinions are irrelevant. The best you can do is work within the boundaries you have agreed to set for yourselves, judge your progress according to how well that works for you, and when things don't work out, make adjustments that address the reality of the situation.
 
That's a bit hard to read with centered text. If you can still edit maybe change it to left justified text so more people can respond?

I'm sorry you struggle. Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words. You correct me if I get it wrong ok?

PEOPLE

  • You
  • Your wife
  • Her BF

PAST SITUATION

Your wife wanted to try swinging. Just her at first, then you also. But it was skewed. She could do solo play and full swaps. You could not do solo play at all, and barely any full swaps. You argued about this plenty of times before that issue was resolved. (How was it resolved?)

MORE RECENT PAST

While swinging, your wife developed feelings for her FWB play partner person. You both attend the swing club's Fet Night class about polyamory, and you give your consent to participate in a poly situation so wife can date her person who she now calls her BF. At this point in time, it's just wife with a poly BF though.

You cannot date new people yourself because wife says she wasn't expecting or looking to have a boyfriend, that it "just happened." And that she knows women, and that they are crazy, and no woman would respect the marriage the way her boyfriend does. And she also mentions her fears and insecurities that she'll lose you to another woman.

(So why would you agree to change the relationship model from [swinging only] to [swinging +poly only on her side of the V]? Rather than both having the option to poly date on both sides? Where you railroaded into this? Are you in the habit of just agreeing to whatever wife says?)

CURRENT PROBLEM

Your wife spends a lot of time with BF. Typically Wed night, and Friday, Sat, and Sunday as well.

This leaves you dealing with kid duties and the house and a lot of times you are asleep before she gets home. You are starting to feeling neglected and lonely. The last time you shared sex with wife was in the MFM trio sex at the club. You haven't shared sex together just you two in a while.

She's also recently been off on a road trip with the BF and it bothered you to hear that she told his friend that she loves her BF. (Why does it bother you? Polyamory means having more than 1 person to love.)

When you bring up your concerns to wife she tells you this isn't "tit for tat" and to learn compersion. She also calls you a sad lovesick puppy when you want comfort because you feel lonely. (Is she in the habit of calling you names?)

Basically she blows you off one way or another. (Is this a habit with her when you raise concerns?)

You are happy for her and wish her well with the BF. At same time, you are tired of being considerate and accommodating for her stuff on her side of the V.
and not get same consideration back.

  • She's not willing address the need to spend time with you as a couple so that relationship can stay healthy.

  • She's not willing to deal with her own insecure feelings so you can move on to do the swinging/poly you want to do on your side of the V.

It doesn't have to be tit for tat like everything perfectly lined up all the time. But all this time wife's been going first a lot, and you've been patiently waiting for your turn to move on. You are tired of waiting.

So now you are ready to explore and move on with things on your side of the V and need help bringing it up.

Is that more or less it? If so...

CONCLUSION

I don't know if my opinion helps you any.

Since she encourages you to get out and socialize while she's in recovery? Go ahead. She's there to do the house and kid thing. Get out and socialize.

Also plan some time together on your own as a couple. Maybe "in house" dates like dinner and a DVD or something.

After she is well in 6 weeks? Tell wife and your metamour (her BF) you would like to talk as 3 people. Make an appointment.

When the appointment time comes? Tell wife and meta you have been doing the swinging for ___ years and ____ mos on the poly part of things. On her side of the V she has found BF and you are supportive and encourage them to keep dating. You are happy for them.

On your side of the V? You think you have given ample time for wife to get her bearings and get her side of the V stable. So now you are ready to move on and start poly dating yourself also on your side and wanted to make them both aware you will be doing that. Condom rule still applies.

Do they have any questions or concerns? A concern you have is making sure every "mini couple" in the bigger poly network is getting enough time on their own.

  • You+ wife
  • Wife + BF
  • You + new potential GF
  • BF + Person X... if BF is also dating other people

Address reasonable concerns. Then get on with it. Go poly date.

Because whatever questions or concerns wife has that are unfair or unreasonable? You can respond to it. And let her deal with her feelings about your response/the concern on her own. You do not have to arrange the world so she never has to feel anything yucky. You don't have to be MEAN to her, but you also don't have to be doing all this emotional labor all the time esp if you are getting worn out with it.

Also wanting to know or clarify if whether or not the way I feel about this situation is right or wrong. Am I doing something wrong? Are my feelings and perspectives legitimate? Or am I really asking too much out of this newfound relationship?
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It's legitimate to feel how you feel -- Bored, tired, lonely, neglected etc.

Because it's basically been Open for her but not so much for you. And you went along with it from the start. So she keeps right on going when it changed to include poly -- stuff for her but not for you. Kinda selfish sounding.

And if you bring up concerns? She complains you rain in her parade rather than actually listening to her established partner (you) because she's all caught up with the new shiny partner (the BF.)

It is not too much to ask that you both have the same opportunities on both sides of the V. She has the option to do swinging as solo play or full swaps. She can poly date. Well, what is the problem with you having the same options? You can have the option to do swinging as solo play or full swaps. And you can poly date.

What concerns do you think she will raise?

If she says...

  • She doesn't want it because she is still getting used to it? Well, it's been X mos. How much longer does she need? Or is it just making excuses because she really wants Open for just her and not you? If she says something you can live with like another 3 mos? Give it to her since you waited this long already. What's another 3? But then really move on. But if she says something like another 3 years? Say "No, thank you. Not reasonable. I'm moving on to dating." Let her deal with confronting her fears. One deals with those by dealing with those, not by procrastinating or avoiding.

  • That her situation with her boyfriend is a 'special case.' Because she wasn't expecting or looking to have a boyfriend, that it just happened? Well, he's here now. And you would like to have a GF. So you plan to poly date.

  • If she offers to dump her BF -- tell her that is not kind to treat him disposable. And you still plan to poly date. If she's ending it with him because it's not working out, that's her business. If she's ending it to try to stop you from poly dating or control you -- that's not kind either.

  • If she says she knows women, and that they are crazy? You tell her that she has to trust you to dump anyone who is outright crazy and toxic.

  • If she says no woman would respect our marriage the way her boyfriend does? You tell her that she has to trust you to dump anyone who is outright crazy and toxic.

  • If she mentions her fears and insecurities that she'll lose you to another woman? You tell her you do not have plans to leave her for another woman at this time and she has to trust you on that. And that you encourage her line up a poly friendly counselor to help her do her emotional management if she needs extra support around that fact that you too will now be poly dating. You were ok agreeing to polyamory and even her going first. You are not ok with "Open for her but not for you."

Really what else would she bring up? :confused:

And if she starts with poor behavior like you calling names? Tell her that's a mean way to talk to her spouse, you expect better treatment from her, and that you expect an apology when she cools off. You are willing to discuss things calmly. You are not willing for her to throw a temper tantrum and act out at you. Then leave the room. Call her on poor behavior when it happens.

If it's been your habit to be kinda passive and go along with whatever she says or gloss over and ignore when she talks mean to you? She's going to be surprised to see you being more assertive and up front. But I think that would serve you better going forward.

She might not LIKE it, esp if she's enjoyed things always being skewed in her favor. But you know what? That's HER emotional management for her to deal with. Not yours.

I feel like not only am I dealing with my feelings, but also that I'm having to work around HERS. And THAT is what I define as unfair. (Yea, I said it.)
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If you want that to change? You have to STOP doing her emotional management stuff for her. Expect her to do her own emotional work.

Be supportive, be kind, but NO. You do not have to arrange the world around her so she never feels anything yucky. Sometimes she's just not gonna like some things and you have to be ok with her feeling that without it being YOUR job to fix it or accommodate.

That is my opinion.

Galagirl
 
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And that she knows women, and that they are crazy, and no woman would respect our marriage the way her boyfriend does
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Well that's a little uncalled for. I wonder if it's a core belief or an excuse?
 
Apologies, my OCD favors the middle side when optional. I can't seem to be able to edit it anymore. And also thank you for your well-organized reply. I will answer each section as I go with this.

You could not do solo play at all, and barely any full swaps. You argued about this plenty of times before that issue was resolved. (How was it resolved?)
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It had gotten resolved after a few more successful Full Swaps, where she had noticed that, while yes I was playing with another woman and my Wife playing with another man, but my attention would always shift back to my Wife. Not just during, but also immediately afterwards. After the realization of that, she started to become more aware and comfortable that I am able to do so as well as herself.

[(So why would you agree to change the relationship model from [swinging only] to [swinging +poly only on her side of the V]? Rather than both having the option to poly date on both sides? Where you railroaded into this? Are you in the habit of just agreeing to whatever wife says?)
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When my Wife had the talk with me after that Fet Night discussion, it was explained that she wanted to 'feel it out' first, since she is technically more experienced in the Lifestyle in general, but also because she had developed those feeling for her FWB. Whereas I had no emotional connections whatsoever. I agreed on that aspect alone, and it was not made clear at all that, once she discovered this newfound 'fire,' that she would be the only one allowed to do it. This fact is what sparked some of the initial arguments following her 'trial phase.' I consider myself a very, very open-minded individual, and it did not bother me at first. But once I showed disagreement, she would simply lose it and get angry at the mere thought of me exploring as well. She would make points that it is an unexpected, special case of Polyamory and act as if I don't really have the right to even think she should be okay with me going out and searching for a date or girlfriend. Since she herself was not intentionally looking to have a boyfriend. After such arguments, I get treated as if she wants nothing to do with me because her fears and insecurities skyrocketed from my disagreements or concerns.

Your wife spends a lot of time with BF. Typically Wed night, and Friday, Sat, and Sunday as well.
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She would come back home for Sunday. As we consider that day 'Family Day,' the only day apart from Friday that I have off. But, whenever she would come home, whether later in the day or in the morning, she crashes from pushing herself. The rest is exactly as you explained here.

(Why does it bother you? Polyamory means having more than 1 person to love.)
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I have no issues for either of them feeling love for each other. I'm happy for that, actually. But the way I percieved the phrase 'falling in love,' is normally how she'd refer to me.

(Is she in the habit of calling you names?)
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Her more so than I, whenever we have arguments or she is otherwise irritable or angry with me. Which I'm no saint, either. I have approached arguments in inappropriate manners in the past, in which attacks about comparisons were used as response to her name-calling. As in my Introduction post, I have been doing research on better approaching an inevitable argument. Research is my go-to, to better not just myself, but also because I have a habbit for wanting knowledge over all else when it comes to things that affect me. For example, I used to think I was incapable of most emotions after a very rough and abusive upbringing and a devastatingly abusive relationship prior to meeting my now Wife. But what I have is an emotional detachment disorder, which I researched and learned to overcome my subconscious barriers so that I could feel freely and live happier.

(Is this a habit with her when you raise concerns?)
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Not really, for the most part. She will give an explanation that seems very reasonable and not at all irrational, but when she doesn't show any initiative or progress in certain changes needing to be made. Which only seems to occur when it comes to Lifestyle-related issues.

It doesn't have to be tit for tat like everything perfectly lined up all the time. But all this time wife's been going first a lot, and you've been patiently waiting for your turn to move on. You are tired of waiting.
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More or less, your list is correct. She does heavily explain that it took her a LONG time to even have feelings for her boyfriend during their FWB phase, and the transition to finding out about being Poly even more so. Fet Night only confirmed her thought process through it all. Which, I only perceived this information as: Wait, so you had those lingering feelings this whole time, and never addressed them with me at all?

...But, having already done research about approaching and avoiding conflict, I could not at the time find a way to approach that in an appropriate manner.

Since she encourages you to get out and socialize while she's in recovery? Go ahead. She's there to do the house and kid thing. Get out and socialize.

Also plan some time together on your own as a couple. Maybe "in house" dates like dinner and a DVD or something.

After she is well in 6 weeks? Tell wife and your metamour (her BF) you would like to talk as 3 people. Make an appointment.

When the appointment time comes? Tell wife and meta you have been doing the swinging for ___ years and ____ mos on the poly part of things. On her side of the V she has found BF and you are supportive and encourage them to keep dating. You are happy for them.

On your side of the V? You think you have given ample time for wife to get her bearings and get her side of the V stable. So now you are ready to move on and start poly dating yourself also on your side and wanted to make them both aware you will be doing that. Condom rule still applies.

Do they have any questions or concerns? A concern you have is making sure every "mini couple" in the bigger poly network is getting enough time on their own.

Address reasonable concerns. Then get on with it. Go poly date.

Because whatever questions or concerns wife has that are unfair or unreasonable? You can respond to it. And let her deal with her feelings about your response/the concern on her own. You do not have to arrange the world so she never has to feel anything yucky. You don't have to be MEAN to her, but you also don't have to be doing all this emotional labor all the time esp if you are getting worn out with it.

It's legitimate to feel how you feel -- Bored, tired, lonely, neglected etc.

Because it's basically been Open for her but not so much for you. And you went along with it from the start. So she keeps right on going when it changed to include poly -- stuff for her but not for you. Kinda selfish sounding.

And if you bring up concerns? She complains you rain in her parade rather than actually listening to her established partner (you) because she's all caught up with the new shiny partner (the BF.)

It is not too much to ask that you both have the same opportunities on both sides of the V. She has the option to do swinging as solo play or full swaps. She can poly date. Well, what is the problem with you having the same options? You can have the option to do swinging as solo play or full swaps. And you can poly date.

What concerns do you think she will raise?

If she says...

  • She doesn't want it because she is still getting used to it? Well, it's been X mos. How much longer does she need? Or is it just making excuses because she really wants Open for just her and not you? If she says something you can live with like another 3 mos? Give it to her since you waited this long already. What's another 3? But then really move on. But if she says something like another 3 years? Say "No, thank you. Not reasonable. I'm moving on to dating." Let her deal with confronting her fears. One deals with those by dealing with those, not by procrastinating or avoiding.

  • That her situation with her boyfriend is a 'special case.' Because she wasn't expecting or looking to have a boyfriend, that it just happened? Well, he's here now. And you would like to have a GF. So you plan to poly date.

  • If she offers to dump her BF -- tell her that is not kind to treat him disposable. And you still plan to poly date. If she's ending it with him because it's not working out, that's her business. If she's ending it to try to stop you from poly dating or control you -- that's not kind either.

  • If she says she knows women, and that they are crazy? You tell her that she has to trust you to dump anyone who is outright crazy and toxic.

  • If she says no woman would respect our marriage the way her boyfriend does? You tell her that she has to trust you to dump anyone who is outright crazy and toxic.

If you want that to change? You have to STOP doing her emotional management stuff for her. Expect her to do her own emotional work.

Be supportive, be kind, but NO. You do not have to arrange the world around her so she never feels anything yucky. Sometimes she's just not gonna like some things and you have to be ok with her feeling that without it being YOUR job to fix it or accommodate.

Galagirl
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I really do appreciate your input and opinions. Some of which I have already heard of from researching situations a bit similar to my own. But it's a relief nonetheless to see I'm not being demanding or needy or irrational about my concerns and feelings. Thank you so much, Galagirl!
 
PolyNatural said:
Without a relatively objective baseline, our opinions are irrelevant.
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Give the guy a break - this entire forum is about opinions. Lots of people come here from a swinging background, looking for help when feelings develop and they don't want to throw away what they've found. Just because people don't conform to your website doesn't mean that they are less poly than you are or that only "real" poly situations are admitted here for discussion.
 
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matt91cali said:
I'm sorry for the following novel.
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No problem at all! Quite often, first posts are long like yours. I did take the liberty of editing your post, to reduce repetition and correct the format.

We suggest in our guidelines that you choose nicknames for all the players in your story. It makes things much easier to read and understand. I'll put some in, but you can choose others, if you want.

My wife, Beth (F, 34, Bisexual) and I (M, 28, Straight) have been in the lifestyle for a couple of years, her for a bit longer. She had started going to a [swinging] club, with a couple of other curious female friends. They all went together for a while before she considered taking me as well.

She had experiences, and would make sure to tell me whenever she played with anyone, without the juicy details, of course. It took quite some time for Beth to be comfortable with me playing with other women, or have any experiences at all. After a little over a year, we were official and successful swingers.

We have switched to a more welcoming club; it feels more like a house party. Beth started going there first, and had some solo experiences.

This was where a problem happened. I still had restrictions on me and was not allowed any solo play. I had had barely any experiences at all, apart from full swaps as swingers. So, I finally said that her having all these awesome experiences, while I couldn't have any at all, was bothering me.

I am not jealous of her sexual activities, but it was not this "exciting adventure" she told me being in the lifestyle would be, because she was the only one living the adventure, so to speak. We argued plenty of times before that issue was resolved.

...One day a month, they host a "Fet Night." Very educational discussions, with Q&As. Several months ago, Beth mentioned the topic was polyamory.

She hired a babysitter, so we both could attend. That night, Beth talked to me about exploring polyamory with baby steps, but only her, because she had developed feelings for her FWB (Luke), a guy she had been playing with on her solo nights out.

...I gave her my consent to pursue this. It was light, at first. She goes to the club every weekend with Luke. (At the time, she labelled him as her boyfriend, but did not identify herself as polyamorous yet.) On some occasions, we go together. We can't always get a babysitter.

After a couple weeks, we had arguments about me wanting to explore as well. She said it was not allowed, because she is still getting used to it.

Another argument arose. Actually, it was pretty much the same argument. I believed I was in the right, but she turned it on me. I want to explore, because I feel lonely whenever Beth goes on a date with Luke. I believe that my feelings are legitimate.

This time, she emphasized that I needed to work on my compersion, and told me that this kind of lifestyle was not tit for tat. She said it made her sick to her stomach even thinking of me saying the word "girlfriend."

She said her situation with Luke was a "special case," because she wasn't expecting or looking to have a boyfriend, it just happened. Also, she knows women, and they are crazy, and no woman would respect our marriage the way Luke does. Also she mentioned her fears and insecurities: that she'll lose me to another woman.

I already know it's not about tit for tat. Ever since Beth dipped her toes in the water, I have been doing a lot of research on polyamory. (Finally) she told me that I was allowed to go to the club solo ONLY on Fet Night. Okay, that's cool. I get to go out solo. But only once a month? (That's not cool.)

At this point Beth identifies as polyamorous, with Luke and me. (She is now about to have surgery on her foot and will have a 6 week recovery.) She has been visiting Luke every Wednesday and spends Friday-Sunday as well, these past 3 weeks. I pick our son up from school on my way home from work, and she leaves about an hour before we get home. Son goes to bed, and I'm left alone until 10-11 at night. I feel lonely while she's gone. I need affection, a hug, conversation, etc.

On Wednesdays, I try to drown those feelings with more research on myself and on polyamory. On 2 of the Saturdays we all went to the club (including Luke), (got "stupid") and fulfilled Beth's MFM fantasy. We broke the condom rule. She made the rule herself, we'd agreed on it. She said it was just in the heat of the moment. I let it slide, even though it definitely bothered me.

This past weekend, Beth and Luke went on a road trip to an event that Luke wanted to attend, for a friend of his, Ben. That's when she was gone Friday-Sunday (even though they both know how lonely I've been).

Before Beth left for her road trip, she was talking to Ben (who is very protective of Luke). The chitchat was about the trip, and Beth told Ben she had fallen in love with Luke. (Before I go on, we clarified that it is okay for her to feel love for Luke, and vice versa.)

But now, she told Ben she fell in love with Luke! That was something that hit me really hard, and she knew it. I confronted her about it. She apologized and said it didn't feel right to her either. And then she left with Luke on their road trip! I started texting her about me feeling lonely, and she straight up called me a sad lovesick puppy...

Beth got back from her road trip, and is now prepping for her surgery at the end of the week. She's tired from the road trip, and exhausted emotionally because she'll be unable to walk or stand for 6 weeks. I'm trying my darn best to reassure her everything will be okay. She has me, and she has Luke on the weekends, while I'm at work on Saturdays.

She is encouraging me to continue to go out solo, to blow off steam and have social activity (while she's recovering).

During her trip, I felt lonely. That lonely feeling was laughed at on the same day as the "I've Fallen In Love" oops. I've gotten more curious about polyamory through my research, and around Beth's state of "fulfillment."

Another problem is (lack of) aftercare for me. The last 2 times Beth and I had sex, Luke was also involved. (!) That was 2 and 3 weeks ago. I don't know what I'm feeling about it, but I would think one-on-one time is heavily needed. (!)

I still have curiosity and interest in exploring poly for myself as well (ie: getting a girlfriend).

I don't want to use the word "unfair." As much as I REALLY want to use it, that word always gets thrown back at me. However, that is how I feel while Beth is out with her boyfriend. It is my feeling!!! It is real!!!

I am sharing Beth's time, love, affection, attention and intimacy with Luke. I'm not getting as much as I'm putting in to our our marriage.

I really don't think I deserve to feel lonely. Right now, this is a one-sided relationship. I just have to deal with my feelings while she's out with Luke, while she is refusing to deal with her own feelings, fears and insecurities. Not only am I not properly dealing with my own feelings, but also I'm having to work around HERS. And THAT is what I define as unfair. (Yeah, I said it!)

...I am very, very happy for Beth. I do encourage her to keep dating Luke, who is very respectful. I have gained a very good friend out of this. I would not want them to break it off over issues that are between Beth and me, because that is literally counterproductive. Each one of us could get really hurt, and it would only breed resentment between us all.

Is the way I feel about this situation right or wrong? Am I doing something wrong? Are my feelings and perspectives legitimate? Or am I really asking too much out of this newfound relationship?
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I totally concur with Galagirl. Your actions are passive. Beth is steamrollering you. Your feelings are valid. She is being unfair. You could step up and speak up for your rights. Polyamory needs to have a "joyful yes" from all concerned. Right now, you are NOT joyful, since you are letting Beth call all the shots.

Why are her feelings and desires paramount, but your feelings get mocked and laughed at?

Also, are there plans to get tested for STDs since you both shared sex fluids with Luke?

And, how can you go out and blow off steam while she's home alone with your kid, but unable to stand or walk on her foot?

I am curious, did you agree to her starting to swing with her girlfriends, so she could get some lesbian action, and somehow that morphed into her playing with men too? Why did you consent to her going off to swing solo in the first place? Why weren't you involved as an equal from the start? How does Beth get to be so in charge in all this?
 
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matt91cali said:
It had gotten resolved after a few more successful full swaps, where Beth had noticed that although I was playing with another woman, and she was playing with another man, my attention would always shift back to Beth. Not just during sex, but also immediately afterwards. Then Beth started to become more aware and comfortable that I am able to do this as well as she can.
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She's looking out for number one, isn't she? What about whether her attention shifts back to you? Not so much going on in that direction, huh?

When Beth had the talk with me after that Fet Night discussion, it was explained that she wanted to 'feel it out' first, since she is technically more experienced in the lifestyle in general, and because she had developed those feeling for Luke, whereas I had no emotional connections whatsoever.

I agreed on that aspect alone, but it was not made clear that, once she discovered this newfound 'fire,' she would be the only one allowed to do it.

This fact is what sparked some of the initial arguments following her 'trial phase.' I consider myself a very open-minded individual, and it did not bother me at first. But when I showed disagreement, she would simply lose it, and get angry at the mere thought of me exploring as well.

She would make points that it is an unexpected, special case of polyamory and act as if I don't have the right to even think she should be okay with me going out and searching for a date or girlfriend. She herself was not intentionally looking to have a boyfriend!
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You know what? Beth, and her feelings, and her polyamory, or whatever it is, are not "special." She can just get right down off her high horse. And you can face her as equals. Everyone has a right to feelings, and desires, whether they are unexpected or not.

Excuse me, but her argument is bullshit.

After such arguments, I get treated as if she wants nothing to do with me because her fears and insecurities skyrocketed from my disagreements or concerns.
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So, that's her game. Blow up, trash and mock you, and then give you the silent treatment. And you are with a person like this why?

Successful polyamory requires open, honest, RESPECTFUL communication. You said you grew up with abuse. It sounds like you chose something familiar.

She would come back home for Sunday, as we consider that day 'Family Day,' the only day apart from Friday that I have off. But, whenever she would come home, whether later in the day or in the morning, she crashes from pushing herself.
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Well, that's not right at all. (I'm trying to restrain myself.) It's supposed to be a day for you and her and your son. And yet, she's worn out from shagging at the swinger's club and just checks out when she's home. This isn't polyamory. This is more bullcrap.

I have no issues with either of them feeling love for each other. I'm happy for that, actually. But the way I perceived the phrase 'falling in love,' is normally how she'd refer to me.
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She used to be "in love" with you. But maybe not. Maybe she's been using you all along as a paycheck, sperm donor, and babysitter so she can go off and have anonymous, or not so anonymous, sex with others. And you sit home lonely. And she then mocks your loneliness!

I'm no saint, either. I have approached arguments in an inappropriate manner in the past, in which attacks about comparisons were used as response to her name-calling.

I have been doing research on better approaching an inevitable argument. Research is my go-to, to better not just myself, but also because I have a habit of wanting knowledge over all else when it comes to things that affect me.

I used to think I was incapable of most emotions after a very rough and abusive upbringing, and a devastatingly abusive relationship prior to meeting Beth. I have emotional detachment disorder, which I researched. I learned to overcome my subconscious barriers so that I could feel freely and live more happily.
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I'm not seeing much personal happiness here. I'm seeing Beth and Luke happy, you lonely and sad.


She will give an explanation that seems very reasonable and rational, but then she doesn't show any initiative or progress when it comes to lifestyle-related issues.
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She's riding a hormone high, baby. She's neglecting you, and your son too!

She explains that it took her a long time to even have feelings for Luke during their FWB phase...
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How long was she fucking him, more or less without your knowledge, off on her "solo" fun times while you sat home alone?

I assume Luke is not a person with a female partner that you ever did your "full swaps" with. How long has this thing been developing? What the hell makes it so "special" for her to "fall in love" with her sex partner? You're not there at the club. She's free to do and feel whatever. That happens ALL THE TIME with swingers. Feelings go hand in hand with fucking.

...and the transition to finding out about being poly even more so. Fet Night only confirmed her thought process. I perceived this information as: Wait, so you had these feelings this whole time, and never addressed them with me at all?
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Right?

Having already done research about approaching and avoiding conflict, I could not at the time find a way to approach that in an appropriate manner.
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So, now you're saying, despite your "research," you do NOT know how to approach conflict with Beth. You certainly don't seem to know that everyone is allowed to have feelings, and that your feelings are just as valid as hers, and that feelings can't be "wrong." You are just as "special" as she is, dude.

Now, actions and behaviors can be "wrong." Bad choices can be made. And hateful mocking speech, and laughing at others' feelings is rude and can be perceived as sociopathic.

It's a relief to see I'm not being demanding or needy or irrational about my concerns and feelings.
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Hey, man. Have you ever had therapy around your abusive childhood and adult relationships? Or have you gone it alone, emotionally detached, just reading books, all this time? It sounds like you need to talk to someone. There is only so much that internet strangers can do to help.
 
Thank you for more info.

She will give an explanation that seems very reasonable and not at all irrational, but when she doesn't show any initiative or progress in certain changes needing to be made. Which only seems to occur when it comes to Lifestyle-related issues.
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Sounds like the main problem is her foot-dragging because she doesn't want to deal with her fears.

And/or you foot dragging because you are passive and don't just say "Hey, we've been doing Open marriage kinda skewed for a while now. I'd like it to be so I can also date on my side. I plan to start dating. I'm making you aware."

It had gotten resolved after a few more successful Full Swaps, where she had noticed that, while yes I was playing with another woman and my Wife playing with another man, but my attention would always shift back to my Wife. Not just during, but also immediately afterwards. After the realization of that, she started to become more aware and comfortable that I am able to do so as well as herself.
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Could remind her of this and remind her that same thing could happen with poly dating.

You poly date, she sees nothing doom happens, and she realizes she can become comfortable with this. Is that not a possibility?


I agreed on that aspect alone, and it was not made clear at all that, once she discovered this newfound 'fire,' that she would be the only one allowed to do it. This fact is what sparked some of the initial arguments following her 'trial phase.'
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Again... could be less passive and more assertive in looking out for your own interests moving forward if what you want is something more “fair” between you and not always skewed in her favor.

If you are ready for your own "trial phase" or whatever you want to call it? Let her know and get on with it.

I consider myself a very, very open-minded individual, and it did not bother me at first. But once I showed disagreement, she would simply lose it and get angry at the mere thought of me exploring as well. She would make points that it is an unexpected, special case of Polyamory and act as if I don't really have the right to even think she should be okay with me going out and searching for a date or girlfriend. Since she herself was not intentionally looking to have a boyfriend.
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You DO have the right to think whatever you want in your head. It's YOUR head.

She is coming at it like she didn't mean to fall for a swinging buddy. Well, so what? You also swing. “The special case” thing could also happen to you where you fall for a swing buddy. Has she not thought that out? :confused:

And really it is not all that “special case.” It happens commonly enough. So much so that some swingers make a rule about not having a regular partner to try to prevent emotional attachments from happening.

She may not have meant to develop feelings for him. But she DID ask to go to the polyamory class and she DID ask to have a "trial" period of poly to explore dating him. So that part IS intentional.

Today? Trial period is over. You are all presently in a poly V now and he's her BF now. So fussing about which part of their origins was "intentional or not" seems like pointless obfuscating. The present situation is basically she gets to poly date him. You don't get to poly date anyone and would like to.

After such arguments, I get treated as if she wants nothing to do with me because her fears and insecurities skyrocketed from my disagreements or concerns.
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Ok. So give her space. Be ok with that. She wants nothing to do with you for a while so she can get herself back together.

If she's outright RUDE to you, call her on that. Because letting her have space to cool off is one thing. Her being a jerk to you is another.


Galagirl said:
(Is she in the habit of calling you names?)
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Her more so than I, whenever we have arguments or she is otherwise irritable or angry with me.
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If you are tired of this behavior? Call her on it when it happens and ask her if she's willing to express her upset WITHOUT resorting to name calling.

If she's not going to exercise self control and not do insults? Say "No, thank you. Not willing to talk right now. I am willing to talk after you have cooled off enough not to resort to name calling." Then leave the room. You have legs. Be firmer about your personal boundaries and the treatment you will and will not put up with. Be less passive.

She does heavily explain that it took her a LONG time to even have feelings for her boyfriend during their FWB phase, and the transition to finding out about being Poly even more so. Fet Night only confirmed her thought process through it all. Which, I only perceived this information as: Wait, so you had those lingering feelings this whole time, and never addressed them with me at all?

...But, having already done research about approaching and avoiding conflict, I could not at the time find a way to approach that in an appropriate manner.
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So shelve it. I get your point about “Spouse, you have all this stuff going on in your internal life all this time and you don't share that with me until NOW?"

But I suggest you let that go for now and address later on if/when it arises again. Her “arrival to poly" story may not be the same as yours or the next person. And right NOW? You can only talk about so many things at once. So no point in trying to have many conversation topics at the same time because then it gets overwhelming and hard to stay on one track.

For example, I used to think I was incapable of most emotions after a very rough and abusive upbringing and a devastatingly abusive relationship prior to meeting my now Wife. But what I have is an emotional detachment disorder, which I researched and learned to overcome my subconscious barriers so that I could feel freely and live happier.
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While I'm sorry this happened to you, I commend you on doing your personal work so you can live more free/happy.

I hope your wife is willing to do her own personal work so your shared relationship can go better and not have all this name calling tantrum sounding stuff.

That's a drag in a marriage whether Open Marriage or not.

But it's a relief nonetheless to see I'm not being demanding or needy or irrational about my concerns and feelings.
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Does you wife say that to you? When you bring up concerns or your feelings, rather than acknowledge them she calls you names like demanding, needy, or irrational? :confused:

Or is this your worry from past abuse? Or both? :confused:

Maybe you guys want to consider seeing a poly-friendly counselor together as a couple? Or both as individuals and as a couple? Because you have a lot going on there with your past abuse history. I know a lot of survivors DO survive by becoming "passive make no waves so the abuser doesn't notice me as much" type people. It's about survival back then. But in your life today? You may have more work to do to let that passive response go, esp in interactions with your wife. Some of her outbursty behavior you may find triggery. And some of her way of going sounds like she rolls right over you. There is nothing wrong with research and knowledge, but you sound almost like you retreat into it for comfort or "being careful." Add all the extra layers of being active swingers and also doing poly... it's a lot of layers going on.

Aspiring to a healthier relationship and healthier communication isn't a bad thing. Do you want to just "survive" your marriage or "thrive" in your marriage?

What would be your ideal outcome or situation right now? You and wife both being able do swing solo or full swaps? With other partners like her BF / a GF for you who are both ok with both poly and swinging?

GL!
Galagirl
 
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FallenAngelina said:
Give the guy a break
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And all along, here I thought I was helping.
This entire forum is about opinions.
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That is a highly generalized statement that in my experience ( not to be confused with opinion ) isn't accurate.
Lots of people come here from a swinging background, looking for help when feelings develop and they don't want to throw away what they've found. Just because people don't conform to your website doesn't mean that ...
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That was perfect right up to where the dots above trail-off. I would have said, "It doesn't mean that their relationship isn't as heartfelt and complex as other people's, including some poly relationships."

That is less of a problem than saying:
... they are less poly than you are or that only "real" poly situations are admitted here for discussion.
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See what I mean? By removing the value judgement around the difference between swinging and polyamory, we remove the stigma. By removing the stigma, it's okay for swinging and polyamory to be their own things, and by being their own things, they add to the wonderful choices people have. It's okay to be different. Right?
 
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Evidence strongly suggests the latter.

Leetah
 
Hi Matt,

The impression I got here, is that your wife is solidly entrenched in the scenario of her having privileges that you don't have. She gets to have a boyfriend; you are not allowed to look for a girlfriend. She rationalizes that by calling her boyfriend a "special case of poly," but the bottom line is that she gets to be the sole poly spouse in your marriage. To be honest, I don't think that's ever going to change. If you ever get to a point where it was previously promised that you could start being poly, she'll find yet another way to kick that can further down the road. What you have to figure out is, can you stand to be a non-poly husband to a poly wife. If you can stand it, if you can get to a point where you can live with it, then things will work out okay. But if poly living is a must for you, then you're headed for an unhappy marriage. Or, no marriage at all.

The one other thing you can try is GalaGirl's suggestion; that is, just tell your wife that you are going to start looking for a girlfriend, and that you are not asking your wife for permission, you are just informing her that that's what you're going to do. Then let the chips fall where they may. If your wife reacts by demanding a divorce, then that is a possible consequence you prepare yourself for ahead of time. If your wife reacts with an ultimatum, i.e., "If you start looking for a girlfriend, then I am going to divorce you," then at least you have a clear choice you can make on the path ahead. It would confirm, for you, what I was saying in the above paragraph, and you can make a choice based on that. But there is also the hope that she, while being unhappy and/or angry about it, will let you look for a girlfriend and will maybe even adjust to it over time.

But I don't think her permission will be forthcoming, at least not until after you give yourself permission. I don't think it's wrong of you to want to look for a girlfriend. Your wife calls it tit for tat, I call it a fair/balanced scenario. You just have to figure out whether you're going to do it anyway in spite of the fact that your wife does not approve. Or you have to figure out whether you're going to stay married to her in spite of the fact that she wants a lopsided setup. You have to figure out how important poly is to you. Some people can live without it. Some people can remain monogamous while their spouse is polyamorous, and be happy in that arrangement. Do you think you can? I do think that's the arrangement you're going to have to live with, unless you somehow force the issue. I could be wrong, of course. I hope I'm wrong. I hope you can work things out.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
GalaGirl said:
Sounds like the main problem is her foot-dragging because she doesn't want to deal with her fears.

And/or you foot dragging because you are passive and don't just say "Hey, we've been doing Open marriage kinda skewed for a while now. I'd like it to be so I can also date on my side. I plan to start dating. I'm making you aware."
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(I'll use the listed names from earlier in this thread.)

I'm afraid I can't disagree. Even Beth tells me I seem, for the most part, passive. Which I mean, I am never really 'against' most things. It's just when I'm feeling like I'm no longer enjoying myself in certain situations. That's when I start talking about it.

But as aforementioned, before I just go try handling it guns blazing, I have resorted to research. In this specific instance, I'm seeking advice on whether I myself am in the wrong, or what my feelings are telling me is right. Validity upon my reasons, I guess.

GalaGirl said:
You poly date, she sees nothing doom happens, and she realizes she can become comfortable with this. Is that not a possibility?
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It definitely sounds like a simple way of thinking, in my opinion. I mean that's how I feel and think, but I believe all she'd perceive from that is: "Husband and a girlfriend?? But I'm your Wife!! Dates!? Dates will lead to sex! Love!!?? But you love ME!! I thought I was your one and only!!" (Yes, she can make it this intense.)

GalaGirl said:
Again... could be less passive and more assertive in looking out for your own interests moving forward if what you want is something more “fair” between you and not always skewed in her favor.
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I'm definitely working on and improving.
Still lots to work on in that aspect, tho'. But I agree.

GalaGirl said:
She is coming at it like she didn't mean to fall for a swinging buddy. Well, so what? You also swing. “The special case” thing could also happen to you where you fall for a swing buddy. Has she not thought that out? :confused:
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I'm sure Beth has thought of it in some way, and in that thought process, possibly motivated the 'You can only go out to the club on Fet Night' rule. Which, while educational those nights are, it's pretty much a dead zone after the discussion part is over.

GalaGirl said:
And really it is not all that “special case.” It happens commonly enough. So much so that some swingers make a rule about not having a regular partner to try to prevent emotional attachments from happening.
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Such was a big rule during our Swinging only relationship. Seems once we switched clubs is when the rule started to be considered void on Beth's part. And that doesn't surprise me, as the club has a vast crowd of Poly individuals and couples. And she's naturally a bubbly and social woman.

GalaGirl said:
She may not have meant to develop feelings for him. But she DID ask to go to the polyamory class and she DID ask to have a "trial" period of poly to explore dating him. So that part IS intentional.
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This is a point I VERY much intend to make. It was unintentional back then, which she has made clear. But in the now, she intends to keep dating him and intends to continue her relationship with him as her boyfriend. And yes, it is fully intentional.

GalaGirl said:
Or is this your worry from past abuse? Or both? :confused:
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I guess you could say its a mix of both. I never really thought of it that way.

GalaGirl said:
Maybe you guys want to consider seeing a poly-friendly counselor together as a couple? Or both as individuals and as a couple? Because you have a lot going on there with your past abuse history. I know a lot of survivors DO survive by becoming "passive make no waves so the abuser doesn't notice me as much" type people. It's about survival back then. But in your life today? You may have more work to do to let that passive response go, esp in interactions with your wife. Some of her outbursty behavior you may find triggery. And some of her way of going sounds like she rolls right over you. There is nothing wrong with research and knowledge, but you sound almost like you retreat into it for comfort or "being careful." Add all the extra layers of being active swingers and also doing poly... it's a lot of layers going on.

Aspiring to a healthier relationship and healthier communication isn't a bad thing. Do you want to just "survive" your marriage or "thrive" in your marriage?

What would be your ideal outcome or situation right now? You and wife both being able do swing solo or full swaps? With other partners like her BF / a GF for you who are both ok with both poly and swinging?
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Without a doubt, I want nothing more than to thrive in my marriage. But I intend to do so on equal grounds. That is the obstacle here. What I want is to be treated equally, and Beth refers to that alone as 'tit for tat.' Which it isn't. I can see how it is perceived as such, but she's not understanding that I'm not getting what I need or want out of this anymore because I, for whatever reason, seem to be inferior to Beth's Lifestyle status.
 
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Jumpin' dick in a jar, Batman! :eek:

Op your wife is clearly treating you as a piece of property and not as an autonomous adult individual who is her equal. You do not have to take this BS.
 
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tit for tat: the infliction of an injury or insult in return for one that one has suffered.

(It sounds like, this for that, or, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.)

So, she thinks you feel injured and want to injure her in return.

I think you do feel injured, if feeling disrespected and lonely can be considered mere injury. But I don't think you want fairness just to injure her in return.

And, your "injury" happened a long time ago, as a child, in your psyche (and maybe on your body), when you were made to feel powerless. We don't even know how they hurt you. But you're 28 and still operating with the skills you learned as a child, to receive less injury, keep your head down, and not rock the boat.

Change comes from within. This situation is a life lesson for your internal growth. Only when you know you have value and worth, and don't deserve to feel "lesser" than Beth, or anyone else, will your life change.

Because if you don't change, this pattern will keep repeating.

... for whatever reason, I seem to be lesser than Beth's lifestyle.
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The reason is in you. Your programming, your response to childhood abuse. You, and only you, can change this. It would be much easier to come to a healthier mindset with the help of a therapist.
 
But as aforementioned, before I just go try handling it guns blazing, I have resorted to research.
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Being assertive is not being aggressive. It doesn't have to be “guns ablazing.” It just means being firm about what you will and will not put up with.

Someone wants you to do something unreasonable? You politely say "No. No thank you. I won't be doing that." You don't have to go ashole but you DO say "no, thanks." The kids used to make me watch cartoons -- you remind me of this one.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6flffv

In this specific instance, I'm seeking advice on whether I myself am in the wrong, or what my feelings are telling me is right. Validity upon my reasons, I guess.
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You are not in the wrong to be fed up with "Open for Her, but not for me." There are other threads similar to that here.

Galagirl said:
You poly date, she sees nothing doom happens, and she realizes she can become comfortable with this. Is that not a possibility?
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It definitely sounds like a simple way of thinking, in my opinion. I mean that's how I feel and think,
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Well, it IS a possibility. It might not be how it plays out, but honestly I don't think Beth is gonna even try unless she HAS to.

IME, people get all muddled with the feelings and they agonize and whatnot. Emotional resilience is a skill, and it's grown by DOING IT. Not by waiting for it to come from the sky. Usually the actions themselves are straightforward.

If you no longer consent to do "Open for her but not you? " You can choose not to participate like that and you can choose to tell her that. You could also make her aware you plan to start poly dating. She's dating. So can you.

YOU are in charge of your behaviors.

If she dumps you because you want equality in your relationships and she wants to be more like a Queen Bee? Well, that would stink. But best you find that out now rather than dancing around the fact that you have incompatible values.

It is fair for both spouses in an Open marriage to have the option to see other people. You might choose to never exercise the option, but it is fair and equal for both spouses to have it. And if you choose not to? Then it is YOUR choice and not like your wife trying to be the boss of you where she tells you what you can and cannot do.

but I believe all she'd perceive from that is: "Husband and a girlfriend?? But I'm your Wife!! Dates!? Dates will lead to sex! Love!!?? But you love ME!! I thought I was your one and only!!" (Yes, she can make it this intense.)
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So? You are not willing for wife to do her own emotional management and deal with her own perceptions?

You are not able to say "Wife, I see that you worry. Let me reassure you -- we've been married all this time, I love you, the marriage got through you dating just fine. I believe it will get through me dating just fine. If you need extra support, I encourage you to see a poly counselor" or similar?

Do the work of detangling. It doesn't mean you don't care about your spouse at all. It means you are both individuals AND a couple. Not fused at the hip. YKWIM? It is not being "disloyal" to have your own thoughts about things, your own feelings about things, your own POV, your own way of thinking. You can be your own person AND married. When people marry, they do not become a personblob that "thinks and breathes as one" or some foolishness. If Beth takes you having your own thoughts as you being an asshole or doing something to her or against her, you have to know you are NOT actually an asshole. It's that she wants unreasonable things like you subsuming yourself to the relationship.

I'm sure Beth has thought of it in some way, and in that thought process, possibly motivated the 'You can only go out to the club on Fet Night' rule. Which, while educational those nights are, it's pretty much a dead zone after the discussion part is over.
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You keep talking about "rules." Is she your mom who makes the rules for you? Aren't you adults who come to agreements rather than her dictating what happens?

And this "rule" about you can only go out on Fet Night -- since it's dead after the class? Is that her just looking good like she's so open minded while really still keeping you in a box? Open Marriage for her but not really for you? Is that it?

And if you do not find that reasonable, are you not able to say "No, thanks. When I go out, I choose when I go. I am willing to make sure my home and kid responsibilities are dealt with, that you know it is on the calendar so you aren't caught by surprise, but I'm an adult. I socialize at the club when I want to go. Same as you do."

But in the now, she intends to keep dating him and intends to continue her relationship with him as her boyfriend. And yes, it is fully intentional.
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So since all 3 of you are intentionally practicing a poly V model, does it not occur to Beth that both BF and you would also want to poly date? Or is this all only for Beth and not anyone else? Your consent to participate in things belongs to YOU. If you don't want to do "Open for just her" -- don't.

Without a doubt, I want nothing more than to thrive in my marriage. But I intend to do so on equal grounds. That is the obstacle here. What I want is to be treated equally, and Beth refers to that alone as 'tit for tat.' Which it isn't.
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I gently suggest it is NOT an obstacle. You just get on with it and YOU start treating yourself equally.

I suggest you BEHAVE like it's ALREADY equal. And get on with your life. Rather than waiting on Beth to "agree" to treat you equal. You already are.

Expect Beth to adjust. She can tantrum that you are being a "meanie" wanting “tit for tat” but dude, you DO want a relationship and marriage where partners are equal. What's wrong with that? :confused: Is this some big surprise to her? Did you guys not talk about how the marriage would be before getting married? :confused:

If Beth wants a relationship and marriage where she is "Queen Bee" and all dance attendance on her? She gets most of the stuff? Then you guys are not compatible or Beth has some maturing to do.

If not actually compatible? Better you figure that out now and deal with what comes next rather than you walking around on tiptoes for the rest of your life forever waiting to be treated equally by someone who doesn't want to treat you as such and won't.

Maybe when leaving past abuse and then the relationship abuse Beth seemed pretty great in comparison to all that history. But over time and as you healed? Maybe you've outgrown Beth. Or at least... Beth who behaves like THIS.

If Beth has some maturing to do? Best she get on with it then. And you keeping her in this “bubble” isn't doing her any favors. Yes, it won't be fun for her. But that's the nature of growth. It happens outside the comfort zone.

I can see how it is perceived as such, but she's not understanding that I'm not getting what I need or want out of this anymore because I, for whatever reason, seem to be inferior to Beth's Lifestyle status.
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Why does Beth have to understand before YOU start behaving like the marriage is ALREADY equal? :confused: If you have been doing passive hanging back behavior, you are not able to decide you want to change your behavior? It's ok for you to take up the space you do in the world.

If Beth prioritizes her Lifestyle status over the health of her marriage or your health? So what? That's on Beth and for her to change her behavior. Not you.

How about YOU give yourself permission to prioritize your health, and getting what you want out of Life and what you want out of your marriage? If it turns out that Beth no longer makes the cut for what you want out of a marriage partner? Well, that's something else to deal with then. But you could get on with dealing with the things your life rather than forever waiting.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one. Behave as though you are ALREADY in an equal marriage. Get on with it.

If Beth has a problem with that? Let it BE her problem. Her emotional management is on her to do. She won't grow or deal with it until she HAS to from the sound of it. What's she going to do? Complain to people "Argh! My spouse is such an asshole! He wants our marriage to be equal!"

What are you afraid of here? :confused:

Because if you are so passive you keep waiting for the pasta to be ready first before you put the dry spaghetti in to cook? You are never gonna have dinner! :(

Straighten out your order of approaching things.

Stop hanging back so passive on the things in YOUR life because you are waiting for Beth to get it better together in hers. She either will or won't attend to her life things, but that doesn't have to stop you from attending to your life things and leading the life you want to lead.

If taking up the space you do in the world seems scary or you aren't quite ready -- def encourage you to see a counselor. Open marriage stuff set aside... the dynamic you have with your wife? It could be improved.

Galagirl
 
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