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  #111  
Old 07-31-2011, 05:47 AM
ihaveasecret ihaveasecret is offline
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Maybe it has to do with how you're coming across. It seems like you're trying to enlighten everyone with your viewpoint and you have stubbornly refused to accept any objections to your ideas. You haven't really been discussing anything, you've been lecturing.
  #112  
Old 07-31-2011, 05:51 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by ihaveasecret View Post
Maybe it has to do with how you're coming across. It seems like you're trying to enlighten everyone with your viewpoint and you have stubbornly refused to accept any objections to your ideas. You haven't really been discussing anything, you've been lecturing.
Forget it. We tried explaining it to the OP. He prefers to remain obtuse.
  #113  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:16 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
I was really hoping poly people who are over the taboos of feeling multiple attractions would be open to understanding me and discussing these thoughts and feelings.
I think that's your problem here. You're talking about something that's the norm and expecting people outside the norm to sympathise with you and be understanding and stuff. It's like a straight person going to a gay support group and saying "I had a dream that I kissed a same sex person, I'm like you guys".
That just annoys people because it feels like you're trying to be special when you're just like most people. So it's like, why don't you discuss it with anyone else, who is just like you unless they happen to be in the minority? Why is it even worth bringing up? I've never felt I had to talk to gay people about the struggle of being straight but not "absolute straight" that is disgusted by the same sex and never has same-sex dreams ever, or with black people about being a white person but not "absolute white" with no minority whatsoever in my ancestors, ever.

People are upset because after managing to decode what you meant, we've realised it is "I'm a normal person! Woe is me! Can I use the words you guy use, too? I don't want to use the same word as everybody else. I want people to think I'm special."
That's what's annoying to us. To me at least. You're perfectly allowed to be mono and aren't the only one on this forum. And there are struggles that go with being mono, I'm sure, especially in a relationship with a poly. But here you're going around saying you're poly because you aren't that thing you yourself state doesn't exist. So what's your point then? Instead of figuring that people use that word for what is the norm, must you decide it means something else, which is so rare it is some sort of oddity? Haven't you thought that the reaosn there isn't a simpler word for it that the phrase "lifelong monogamy" is that it's not happening often enough to deserve its own word, and that "lifelong monogamy" is self-explanatory specifically because everyone knows what monogamy is, and can imagine the concept of it being over your whole life rather than at one time?
  #114  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:42 AM
ihaveasecret ihaveasecret is offline
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Yes, it would seem that you would be more comfortable posting on a regular relationship message board for monogamous people.

I am new to poly and even I know that it is totally incorrect to say there is a type of polyamory that is simply thinking about past relationships. You're monogamous, and quite conventionally so, but for some reason want to claim you are poly. Yet, all your reasoning for doing that has been challenged and refuted by real poly people, so obviously you are incorrect in your vision and probably will never feel any sort of satisfaction from posting here. And everyone here will wonder if you're just trying to be irritating. Can't you see that?

Last edited by ihaveasecret; 07-31-2011 at 07:48 AM.
  #115  
Old 07-31-2011, 01:59 PM
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Ohhh wow, I think I finally get the problem serial seems to be having.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are saying you were taught that lifetime monogamy is the ideal. One love interest your whole life. No gfs, no flirting, saving all your heart and body for marriage, as in the article Cindie shared.

So, you got married, but it failed. Now you are divorced, and yet you still feel like having a new love interest is cheating on your ex-wife. So much so, you think you're polyamorous!

But, you aren't. Not even close.
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  #116  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:42 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Ohhh wow, I think I finally get the problem serial seems to be having.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are saying you were taught that lifetime monogamy is the ideal. One love interest your whole life. No gfs, no flirting, saving all your heart and body for marriage, as in the article Cindie shared.

So, you got married, but it failed. Now you are divorced, and yet you still feel like having a new love interest is cheating on your ex-wife. So much so, you think you're polyamorous!

But, you aren't. Not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I think that's your problem here. You're talking about something that's the norm and expecting people outside the norm to sympathise with you and be understanding and stuff. It's like a straight person going to a gay support group and saying "I had a dream that I kissed a same sex person, I'm like you guys".
That just annoys people because it feels like you're trying to be special when you're just like most people. So it's like, why don't you discuss it with anyone else, who is just like you unless they happen to be in the minority? Why is it even worth bringing up? I've never felt I had to talk to gay people about the struggle of being straight but not "absolute straight" that is disgusted by the same sex and never has same-sex dreams ever, or with black people about being a white person but not "absolute white" with no minority whatsoever in my ancestors, ever.

People are upset because after managing to decode what you meant, we've realised it is "I'm a normal person! Woe is me! Can I use the words you guy use, too? I don't want to use the same word as everybody else. I want people to think I'm special."
That's what's annoying to us. To me at least. You're perfectly allowed to be mono and aren't the only one on this forum. And there are struggles that go with being mono, I'm sure, especially in a relationship with a poly. But here you're going around saying you're poly because you aren't that thing you yourself state doesn't exist. So what's your point then? Instead of figuring that people use that word for what is the norm, must you decide it means something else, which is so rare it is some sort of oddity? Haven't you thought that the reaosn there isn't a simpler word for it that the phrase "lifelong monogamy" is that it's not happening often enough to deserve its own word, and that "lifelong monogamy" is self-explanatory specifically because everyone knows what monogamy is, and can imagine the concept of it being over your whole life rather than at one time?
Ok, I'm finally starting to get why people are so irritated with me. You think I'm trying to claim "polyamory" as an ego/status trip to make myself more unique than just being an average (serial) monogamist. This is not my point. Feel free to call me a (serial) monogamist - I did choose it as my username after all. Also, I'm not arguing that serial monogamy is a form of polyamory because I'm trying to unite polyamorists with serial monogamists in some kind of social-political way. What I am doing is trying to show that I think many if not most serial monogamists have the capacity or potential of polyamory and that maybe a lot of the pain involved with achieving semi-monogamy is due to so-called monogamists pursuing an ideal out of social-conformity instead of a deep-hearted faith in monogamy as having some true benefits.

My issue personally is not so much how to be mono or poly. At this point I'm starting to become interested in the possibility of sustainable celibacy since this seems to fit best with my obsession with the ideal of absolute monogamy after divorce. However, I notice that being without a relationship doesn't make me desire having one less but more, so I think I may actually be becoming more poly-oriented by rejecting relationships, idk. Please don't attack me for being like a straight person who goes to a gay support group to talk about having gay dreams - not that I really see the problem with that. My personal issue has more to do with how to become more celibate without denying the facts of feelings and desires. Maybe I should seek out a celibacy support group but I think it is unlikely users will want to talk about polyamory and the tension between absolute and serial monogamy.

Could someone please honestly tell me if I'm going to be hated in this forum until I choose to either pursue poly relationships or go away? Or can I be celibate and post-monogamous and discuss social-philosophy in a general way? And REALLY I'm not trying to bolster my ego by claiming status, except maybe the status of devoted monogamist, which still appeals to me for some reason.

btw, thanks to everyone who made the effort to explain the negative attitudes I've been getting. It was really nice to actually understand what was behind it instead of guessing.

Last edited by serialmonogamist; 07-31-2011 at 04:46 PM.
  #117  
Old 07-31-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
. . . I'm not arguing that serial monogamy is a form of polyamory because I'm trying to unite polyamorists with serial monogamists in some kind of social-political way. What I am doing is trying to show that I think many if not most serial monogamists have the capacity or potential of polyamory and that maybe a lot of the pain involved with achieving semi-monogamy is due to so-called monogamists pursuing an ideal out of social-conformity instead of a deep-hearted faith in monogamy as having some true benefits.
A big problem with what you write is that you seem to think your experiences and feelings automatically apply de facto to everyone else. Plenty of people are happily monogamous and do not struggle with it, but you keep saying that there is pain and suffering with trying to achieve monogamy as if it is a given. When all you are talking about are natural attractions that occur in life and/or thinking about past relationships! Oh, how you suffer!

Furthermore, that you are "trying to show" how monogamists have the capacity or potential to be polyamorous is preaching to the choir, dude! Most people here have also been influenced by the larger societal dictates that monogamy is the expected norm and most of us here are in, dealing with, or curious about polyamorous relationships, so what are you trying to prove? You seem to think you've reached this epiphany you want to share, and it comes off as quite condescending to try and show a community of polyamorists (and their supporters) the light.

If you came here asking questions about how to find or manage one or multiple relationships, you would undoubtedly have been met with many helpful words of advice. However, you only came here to pontificate to a crowd that doesn't need convincing. Furthermore, we have told you that you are taking an incorrect view of what polyamory is and you still insist on asserting it. No, you won't be hated here, but people are going to keep giving you shit as long as you stay on this track because it comes off as arrogant.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-31-2011 at 07:37 PM.
  #118  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:23 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
You seem to think you've reached this epiphany you want to share, and it comes off as quite condescending to try and show a community of polyamorists (and their supporters) the light.

If you came here asking questions about how to find or manage one or multiple relationships, you would undoubtedly have been met with many helpful words of advice. However, you only came here to pontificate to a crowd that doesn't need convincing.

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  #119  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:38 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
A big problem with what you write is that you seem to think your experiences and feelings automatically apply de facto to everyone else. Plenty of people are happily monogamous and do not struggle with it, but you keep saying that there is pain and suffering with trying to achieve monogamy as if it is a given. When all you are talking about is natural attractions that occur in life and/or thinking about past relationships! Oh, how you suffer!
No offense, but why do you and others here seem to think discussing things is all about self-aggrandizement? I don't worship pain and suffering. I do, however, want to explore the causes of it and discuss ways of alleviating/reducing it.

You say that some people live unproblematic mono lives but I don't believe that. You seem to think that there are radically different types of people instead of acknowledging that humans are basically universally the same only there are different cultures to filter the natural drives through. This could be a broader philosophical discussion but, without having it you can still avoid attacking me for my universalism.

The reason I'm specifically talking about suffering involved with achieving monogamy is that I don't think divorces would occur if people were truly absolute monogamists. Why would you leave your partner if you knew you had no capacity to fall in love again or establish a relationship with someone else? Wouldn't people just communicate and work out their differences if the only other choice was to be eternally separated from your only true love?

Quote:
Furthermore, that you are "trying to show" how monogamists have the capacity or potential to be polyamorous is preaching to the choir, dude! Most people here have also been influenced by the larger societal dictates that monogamy is the expected norm and most of us here are in, dealing with, or curious about polyamorous relationships, so what are you trying to prove? You seem to think you've reached this epiphany you want to share, and it comes off as quite condescending to try and show a community of polyamorists (and their supporters) the light.
I'm not trying to prove anything or worship my epiphany, though it was an epiphany for me, yes, as I'm sure it was for others here. I just sought a forum of people who have experienced the same epiphany and want to discuss it further. What's the problem with that? Maybe my tone comes across as preachy because I'm an academic. It's not meant to be rude. It's just my writing style, I think. One thing I really dislike in any situation, though, is to be harassed for being assertive, as if I have to behave submissively toward other people not to be rude. I believe in horizontal equality, so I don't expect submission from others or expect them to want/expect it from me.

Quote:
If you came here asking questions about how to find or manage one or multiple relationships, you would undoubtedly have been met with many helpful words of advice. However, you only came here to pontificate to a crowd that doesn't need convincing. Furthermore, we have told you that you are taking an incorrect view of what polyamory is and you still insist on asserting it. No, you won't be hated here, but people are going to keep giving you shit as long as you stay on this track because it comes off as arrogant.
Sorry if I come off as arrogant. I guess I'm just here to discuss various relationship and love issues but with people who have broader experience because they have managed multiple simultaneous relationships. More than anything I'm trying to understand people and how they relate to each other. I would also like to discuss people's negative experiences with monogamy because I want to gain more clarity about the theory and practical realities of monogamy in my own beliefs. I guess I could find a forum about monogamy for this, but do people really go online to discuss monogamy from a wider perspective on relationships that includes polyamory? I don't think they do. Anyway, thanks for not being totally dismissive and maybe I'll come off less arrogant in the future (hopefully, though I am assertive about things I feel I know).
  #120  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:51 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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There's plenty to read on the forum about people's negative experiences with monogamy AND their negative experiences with polyamory. Why not go ahead and search around the forum and jump in on some of the already-existing discussions and real-life chronologs to add your perspectives and insights with a context, instead of making generalizations about abstract concepts that make very little sense to you AND everyone else.

Because so far, you come across as if you like to hear yourself talk more than you actually care that what you're saying is valid or relevant.
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