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  #61  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:24 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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I think it's at least as likely that T just doesn't understand that things like this can operate in an aboveboard fashion. Some people can be tempted, in an NRE-induced state, to just pretend that if they don't ask, there is nothing wrong going on. Stick their heads in the sand, as it were. Passively deceptive, I like to say. As in, he's not telling her not to tell you, or he's not lying to you, but if she chooses to, that's not his problem ...

If you and she keep letting him know that everyone is aware of what's going on, he should snap out of it, if it's just a case of bad programming.

Out of curiosity, did your wife tell him you knew, or did he ask?
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  #62  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:25 PM
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vixtresses vixtresses is offline
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Isn't it weird how people can be so ready to engage in an affair, but freak out when it is legitimized by your approval (don't really know how else to put that... I'm not thrilled with my choice of words, but I don't know what else to say)? That was one thing my boyfriend and I discussed in the beginning, that both of us were not OK with embarking on an external relationship under the guise of an affair.

I don't think you're nuts for how you felt in bed with your wife after she'd been with T. It actually sounds very familiar to what went on between Romeo and I the first couple of times I was intimate with another man. So if you're nuts, then so are we.

I really appreciate being able to read about the struggles of some of the men on this forum. I feel like it gives me some perspective into what might be going on in my boyfriend's head, and gives me an idea how to support him and not trample all over his feelings while we figure this whole thing out. What you've written is very raw, honest, and real, and I appreciate you sharing it with us.
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  #63  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
Today's update. She woke up and told me she had plans to meet T for coffee.
This is a yellow flag for me. I think that perhaps any difficulty you might have with their relationship could be assuaged by knowing in advance when they go out and how often, etc. A schedule. It can't be as considerate or easy for you, for her to just spring on you that they're getting together on the same day. What if you have plans or wanted to surprise her with something? You can't do that if you don't know what days she's with you. When you are not traveling, I think her time with you should be prioritized, and a schedule for her time with him needs to be established (or at least an agreed-upon number of days per week allotted to him). From what I've seen here, spouses deal better when liaisons with OSOs are scheduled and spouses are informed and, therefore, prepared. You can have a looser arrangement when you're out of town, but also set up a schedule for her to have talks/video chats/contact with you when you're away, so you can feel included.
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One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think thats great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'. He says he cares about me and doesnt want to break up my marriage, but then he is very quick to betray my confidence. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a little.
I have a feeling it is just due to inexperience. He surely knew that you were aware they are seeing each other; he just probably didn't realize what level of details was out in the open.
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The other thing I thought I would throw out to this audience since you are so helpful is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?
Lotsa guys get into that. From a woman's perspective, I think it's a very empowering thing to be with more than one man in a day and I am sure that feeling in command of her sexuality translates to some awesome sex for you.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-15-2011 at 04:16 PM.
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  #64  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:47 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post

One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think thats great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'. He says he cares about me and doesnt want to break up my marriage, but then he is very quick to betray my confidence. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a little.

The other thing I thought I would throw out to this audience since you are so helpful is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?

The trust required to be in a V is an interesting dynamic. Not only do you have to trust that this man is not trying to steal your wife, HE is trusting that you are not going to suddenly freak out and kill him!!! THAT is some trust, right?!? (In the beginning, each time we were together Butch would ask me, "Are you SURE we're cool???" Remember, the Sundance Kid was a sure-shooter, haha!) Also, there is a lot of sketchiness over the male code of honor and respect. My husband could easily lose respect for a man who is sleeping with a married woman, let alone when that woman happens to be HIS wife! On the flip side, my BF could lose respect for a husband who shares his wife and seems not to value her enough to fight to keep her exclusively his (the old-fashioned view prevailing that a wife is property). There has been a historical shame in being a "cuckold" -- but I BELIEVE the shame lies in being duped, the husband being the last to know, more than the actual wife having sex with another man. Even though, with our honesty, we have removed that element, I think it is still scary for my husband to be in this position. Naturally no man wants to set himself for judgement or humiliation in the community. Being in a V makes them each very vulnerable to that. I am amazed when I stop and think about the way my men trust each other. It's not always easy, for either of them.

Speaking of cuckold, and the second issue you mentioned in your post...
at the beginning of our arrangement I looked up some stuff on the internet on "hot wife" and "cuckold" -- it was very erotic and a new perspective I had never heard of before. We're not quite as kinky as the people who are really into that stuff, but it did spice things up and make us realize that nothing is so taboo and horrible as we once may have thought! Check it out and you may find some fun surprises.
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  #65  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:27 PM
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sagency sagency is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
Today's update. She woke up and told me she had plans to meet T for coffee. I told her to have fun and tell him I said hello.
RC, this is a good sign. It's the healthy type of response I'd expect from a successful relationship. Nycindie is right in suggesting prioritizing your in-town time and have a schedule as helpful, but that will take practice, so chalk it up for the future. You're doing well.

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Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think thats great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'.
On some level this could be surprising ("he's trying to be sneaky!"), but dial it back just a bit. I'd bet this guy is just as new to this situation as you are. (Yes?) If that's the case, is his surprised (surprise plus emotion = freak out) reaction that surprising?

Consider how things work in the traditional mono world. A man and a woman for a couple. They may only have each other as intimate and sexual outlets. Any violation of that is automatically horrid. So, if a man or a woman are to have outside interactions, then it must be hidden and deceitful because there is no other option.

Now, if that's how his worldview operates, it becomes clear that he very possibly could have been operating under the assumption of deceit because "that's how things are done." This isn't the same as seeking deceit. Thus, his freak out was a combination of feeling caught (how it works under traditional mono) plus finding out that hubby is much more aware that expected (poly-adjustment syndrome). A freak out in this case isn't a big surprise then, and it could indicate that your image of him (challenged in his mind by this revelation) is important to him. In short, he's likely freaking out for similar reasons to your freak outs--it's new and it's not how you've been programmed. Your progress may even serve as an example to him.

As for the wife's role, there are two things. First, I have to point out that her clarity level with him previous seems low. I suspect she's adjusting, too. Therefore I won't wiggle a finger, but I know from my own experience and hesitancies in the past that talking to people and partners about poly life gets easier with practice. I advise that sooner is better than later (though it always is scary when you're admitting to something that could challenge people's traditional views).

Second, and much more important, "no lies or deception"... excellent. There's a reason nycindie says honesty is sexy. Poly life involves levels of honesty that you'll come to find are likely beyond what you imagined. Being honest with each other and especially with yourself is vital. Good on her for articulating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
The other thing I thought I would throw out to this audience since you are so helpful is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?
Of course it felt dirty--society has spent decades telling you it's a bad thing. (I'll spare you a whole thing on patriarchy and controlling female sexuality.) But deconstruct it a bit: your wife is a person who is able to love many people--you, her children, her new guy. She was with him, but then she comes home to you (as a poly with a mono at home, I cannot put in words how important that connection I feels in when coming home). Because you're trying to open your understanding up, she can feel that you're accepting her and desiring her not for the image she's projecting (traditional mono wife) but for the person that she is. Your shared intimacy then served as a concrete example that her care for the new guy doesn't diminish her love for you.

If you are a student of history, there's also many examples of "shared women." Working girls have existed throughout history, Geek temples had women that would service the men, and many tribal cultures have woman sharing elements. The end result is actually quite often a closer bond among the tribe. I'm not surprised you'd feel excitement with your wife because you're starting to really let her be free from traditional bonds, and given her freedom, she returns to her beloved husband with renewed energy. Pretty sexy.

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Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
I also asked if she and I could spend some quality time later to just chill. No deep conversations, no stress, no need for xanax (lol). She was open to that so I am hoping we can try and resume a normal life.
RC, you've made a lot of progress. It's impressive how well you managed to hang on when a lot of emotion and decades of programming were getting in your way. I'm glad to hear that you're getting to a place where you can relax and enjoy your new normal. When bumps come up again (they will, it's to be expected), you'll have more experience and results to help you. Me and mine are happy for you and yours.

*hug*
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  #66  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:02 AM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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As always thanks to all who responded. Vixtresses, I am glad my experience is helpful to you. Today's posting is about fear. As I work to accept this lifestyle I am often challenged by the fear of what will happen. My inclination when thinks are broken is to fix them and fix them fast. This is often self defeating. So as I sit here now fearful of the future I turn to you all instead of trying to solve everything right now. Because I know this will take time and patience. And patience is another thing I am not so good at.

My biggest fear tonight is that I won't be 'chosen'. I wonder if her long term goal is to make a choice that does not include me. I know that she has the best of both worlds now, but I wonder if she's looking for a new start. We were in a jewelry store today and she looked long and hard at engagement rings. Could be her simple love of diamonds. But in my fearful mind I wonder if she's wishing she could start over with him. I know I am being paranoid and stupid. And because I know that, I won't act on this. But I still don't trust that her ultimate goal is to maintain the poly forever.

Thats it for now. Gonna b patient and ride out the insecurities.
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  #67  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:33 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Regarding engagement and such, I catch myself sometimes thinking about these things with my boyfriend ... Then I remember that we can't. And that's kind of sad.

But none of this has anything to do with hubs.
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  #68  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:46 AM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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Fuck. I can't stop thinking this is too hard. And I questioning if its worth it. So much risk. So much pain. I hate this. Time moves too slowly. I just want closure!
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  #69  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:50 AM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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And thinking I need to start protecting myself. I trying so hard and putting all of myself out there. What if she decides to leave. Then I am devastated. U think I need to adjust my mindset and leave a little of myself protected. I am going to focus on finding that nugget of me that is not at risk when my marriage ends. It's in there somewhere annoying need to di it out and protect it. Call it contingency planning.
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  #70  
Old 07-16-2011, 03:44 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I am going to focus on finding that nugget of me that is not at risk when my marriage ends. It's in there somewhere annoying need to di it out and protect it.

That is exactly what you should be doing. You should be focusing on yourself whether your marriage may be ending or not. It is also better to have a life that stands on its own with or without a partner even if you have a lot in common with your partner(s) and enjoy spending your free time together.
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