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  #51  
Old 07-14-2011, 08:22 PM
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I'm not saying its easy or that you should not feel your pain. All I suggest is that you breath, go slowly and be rational. As others have mentioned.

Its fucking hard work! I know that. I have been through it. But I didn't die.

One moment at a time and one day at a time. All the while checking in with my self and putting what I find all out in the open with as much consideration as possible to your partner. Hard stuff! You can do it! Keep talking here and know we are here for you.
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Last edited by redpepper; 07-14-2011 at 08:30 PM.
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  #52  
Old 07-14-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
You are all very knowledgeable and reasonable.
Fake it 'til you make it.

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Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
The issue is that I am not reasonable right now.
Yeah, we know. At least I know because I've been in that angry mode, too. On Tru Blood, a character in season 3 says something to the effect of, "No, don't say that. Don't say that because when someone says that I black out and wake up surrounded by body parts."

There's a reason that quote stuck with me (beside being funny, of course).

That unreasonable black-outy-ness is why I keep advising RC to become RobertChill for a little while. You can always fuck everything up later. Just try to fuck everything up when you're sane and reasonable so you fuck it up neatly.

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My self-esteem is in the toilet. My feelings are crushed. I cant think straight. And you what, I am fucking angry.
Yep. That's been clear, too. Take some RC-time to reenergize RC. You trying to make major decisions while you're on tilt is not optimal. Would you make a decision at work when you're caught off guard and angry? I bet you'd pull together some subject matter experts, drill down the numbers, and work the problem. In this case, this forum, your therapist, and trusted friends are your SMEs. Work the problem. You'll figure out a plan, but do it while sane, boss.

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Maybe I just know deep down inside its not going to work so I am just cashing out now before I get hurt more.
Maybe you're just hurt and figure cashing out will end the hurt. You might consider that this is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

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Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
Again, call me a victim. Call me an asshole. Call me a sexist. Call me whatever the fuck you want.
What if I called you dude-who's-been-hurt-and-is-trying-really-hard-to-cope? Yeah, "sexist asshole" is easier to say. Not that it helps right now. Near as I can tell, you are talking to a whole bunch of people that support a lifestyle that's foreign and kind of scary to you. You're hurt and saying things while hurt. So yeah, you do sound like a victimized asshole (sounds painful. I'm not a fan of having my asshole victimized.). But you keep coming back here and keep talking to us. That tells me you're trying real damn hard to not be a vicitim, not be an asshole, and unlearn some of the programming that has you inadvertently say sexist sounding things. You know what, that's tough and that take guts. Good on you, sexist asshole victim.

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I can tell her I want to separate tomorrow or the next day just as easy as today. That is true. In fact, I am going back to work monday. And I will not have to see her for 3 days straight. maybe thats what I need. 3 days to get the fuck away from her and all of this shit.
There you go! Really, dude, take some time to recharge. Have some fun this weekend. Hang out with those kids you love. Just be you. What she does in on her. Three days next week will give you some time to clear out the anger. If you want, spend time chatting her, spend time getting your ducks in a row for your plan, spend time talking to a close buddy (male or female) that knows you personally, or just do nothing but chill. This time next week you'll be in a much better position to move whichever direction you decide to go.

*hug*
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  #53  
Old 07-14-2011, 08:55 PM
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1. I define my own happiness and she defines hers. And it's ok if either of us do that independently? That sounds rational.
You've been here about three days and you're already mastering one of the most important parts of poly (or, really, relationship) life? Awesome! You might not realize how big that one thing is, but it's totally great. I'm happy for you.

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But why should I not fear that she is running to him and away from me. She wants sex with him and not with me. Those are hard facts and real concerns for me.
She runs to him but comes home to you, yes? Why not fear? Fear happens. It's just part of it sometimes. Think of a guy in boot camp (btw: you're in poly boot camp right now, private RC). Soldiers all face fear, but through hard work and practice, soldiers learn to handle their fear in a way that they are able to accomplish their objectives. Defining your own happiness is part of setting your objectives. Happy healthy RC with happy healthy kids are some starter objectives.

The sex with him and not with you is tough to troubleshoot given the details. I think everyone will agree the you're getting some major flak from NRE. Hang in there, trooper. Another issue could be (wild conjecture) a sense of disconnect. Women really appreciate emotional connection, and it helps lubricate (mentally and physically) sexual connection. When's the last time you had an opportunity to woo her? When the last time you two had a chance to go on an actual date with just the two of you? Your story so far has talked about providing a fit environment and material things for her and you looking after the kids as well. What about you personally pampering her without the kids around.

Me personally, I would be butter in my wife's hands if she came up to me and said something like, "you know, when you're away, it reminds me how sexy you are and how lucky I am to have you in my bed at night..." (Ok, maybe not butter, unless it's a petrified stick of butter, but you get the idea.) Wifey may worry that you're trying to compete. It's not about his dick or your dick. It's about her being awesome and you loving her for being awesome.

T might have it easy because he doesn't have the kids and responsibility, but you have 19 years of learning and sharing. That's powerful stuff even if you worry about how shiny new is--aluminum is shinier than steel, but steel is stronger. Remind her who the stud she fell in love with is. (This, btw, is a good idea on a regular basis in any relationship regardless of anything else.)

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Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
2. I have patience to wait this out and not force the separation so soon. This means I would need to find a whole lot of inner strength that I am not sure is there.
Recharge RC, and the strength becomes easier. Work on a happy RC, and the strength becomes easier. Reduce the stress and anger, and, well, you know. I believe you can find the patience and strength. We'll be here to cheer you on.

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I am trying. I hope u all see that. But I am only human. And this goes beyond all things I have ever felt. I can only hope that as I sat here wondering what she is doing with him that she is making some kind if progress towards her goals. I can't wait forever.
Poly adjustment syndrome tends to be way over the top for a lot of people. We see you're trying. We're trying to help, and I'm glad you seem to be progressing. You might take comfort in the fact that what you're feeling is to be expected and does get easier over time. You just need to let time do it's thing. Taking the next week before you worry about whether or not to bring up a structured plan is not forever. Having a mental timeframe internally may help you handle the interim. The fact you're trying so hard says a lot about what kind of man you are, trooper. Ooo rah!
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  #54  
Old 07-14-2011, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagency View Post

Women really appreciate emotional connection, and it helps lubricate (mentally and physically) sexual connection. When's the last time you had an opportunity to woo her? When the last time you two had a chance to go on an actual date with just the two of you? Your story so far has talked about providing a fit environment and material things for her and you looking after the kids as well. What about you personally pampering her without the kids around.
I mentioned that earlier. I know when my ex first got a gf, I was envious, not jealous, of their romantic dates. He was spending money on dinners out for her! He took her to a bookstore and read bits of poetry out loud to her! As I mentioned earlier, he and I had stopped going out for dinners, trying to be economical. And those lunches out with colleagues? He never even thought to bring me home a bloody box of pad thai takeout.

So, when things got ugly, one of my gameplans was to date him, a lot, again. We were better off financially then anyway, than at the point when our kids were very young. So, we'd get a babysitter and go out for dinner. We'd get a hotel room in Boston for the weekend and explore Chinatown or the North End. We'd leave the kids with grandma or aunt for a week and go to music fests or sightseeing in different states. This helped us see each other through fresh eyes, as lovers and individuals, not just as old mom and dad, the breadwinner and the household drudge.

Quote:
Me personally, I would be butter in my wife's hands if she came up to me and said something like, "you know, when you're away, it reminds me how sexy you are and how lucky I am to have you in my bed at night..." (Ok, maybe not butter, unless it's a petrified stick of butter, but you get the idea.)
Maybe dripping with melted butter?
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  #55  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:11 AM
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RC, if you are hell-bent on separation, here is an excerpt from another article I found when my separation first happened:
If you decide to separate clear ground rules need to be set. It is a trial for a particular length of time. No one is allowed to date any other person, and the couple themself get together at least a couple of time per week for a date. During the date each person must never talk about how great it is to be apart. The tendency, I found, that marriage couples will play games but testing the other to see if they are missed. In my opinon the only good thing about a trial separation is that it is reversible.

If you decide to enter into a trial separation, you must go through marital counseling. This separation period must be used to think about your differences, your mistakes, problems in your married life, what life was like when you were first married and of course ways to resolve your issues.

An absence of daily bickering and conflicts may be an effective answer to the question can separation save a marriage. Due to a lack of proximity, there is absolutely no chance for conflicts. Both the partners get enough time to think over their marital problems. Most of the marital problems originate from fear, ego or stubbornness. Resolution is possible as long as the partner wishes to keep trying.

The main purpose of trial separation is to develop the skills of resolving the problems before moving back together and working on improving the relationships. For a couple, a planned separation can be a good time to think, to analyze, to reflect, to calm down and cool off. It helps to make thoughtful decisions and thus work to save a marriage. But remember a trial separation can be dangerous.

In some cases, separation may be unplanned and there may be no plans for marriage counseling, no tentative time-line for separation and no guidelines agreed about seeing others. Hence, before you think about separation, talk with each other about the individual goals of separation. Both should be ready for seeking individual and joint counseling during the separation period.

The answer to the question, "can separation save a marriage?" lies within the person himself/herself; you need to realize how important your spouse is in your life and how life may be without him/her. What you are trying to recapture is what you had at first.
I find the very last sentence most interesting. While we have romantic associations and nostalgic memories of how a relationship was when it began, people grow, evolve, change -- and that's a good thing. We cannot stay stagnant and expect to be happy. Yes, look at the importance of having your spouse in your life, but as they are now -- not as they were or how you wish them to be. You are both different people now and embracing change can make your love and relationship blossom into something wonderful that you never ever would have expected could come out of all the pain.
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  #56  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:26 AM
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NYC, do you have links for these posts that are oh so interesting and helpful?
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  #57  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:34 AM
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NYC, do you have links for these posts that are oh so interesting and helpful?
The first article I posted about The Healing Separation has links at the bottom. The last article I posted comes from http://www.saveyourmarriage.tv/What_...eparation.html. I'm not sure if these would be considered commercial websites, so I was hesitant.
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  #58  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:59 AM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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Tonight's update.

We spoke about the pain of the day and how hard it was for me to sit alone while I knew she was being intimate with him. And she was compassionate and understanding. We also spoke about taking some time to think about the separation. It was a calm discussion. So no decisions tonight.

We then had the opportunity to be alone and intimate for the first time in a while. And, believe it or not, we felt a very strong connection that went so far in making both of us feel like this may turn out ok. Honestly, we made love. And it was quite good and reassuring that there is something still there to fight for. A bond that is meaningful.

So I am going to have to be RobertChill for a while while the dust settles and we figure out if the connection tonight is sustainable and the poly relationship is doable.

I thank all of you for talking me off the cliff. If we do decide on the separation once we give it time, I have a wealth of information thanks to your posts. I sincerely hope it doesnt come to that. Since this started I have been a supporter of the concept of not 'Wasting Love' (hey, thats and Iron Maiden song!). I hope we can save our love and make this work instead of throwing it away due to my fear of the unknown, my insecurities, etc.

If we decide to keep making this work, then I know I have a network of supporters that really give a shit - even about a stranger! You should all be very proud of your dedication to helping people who are dealing with the pressures of this unconventional situation.

I can only hope that what she and I felt tonight was real and that we can leverage that as a springboard.

And the even better news is that she and he are still on board with getting together as a threesome once our schedules align and experiencing the magic that happens when the three of us are intimate.

Thanks again to all.
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  #59  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:29 AM
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Well done, RobertChill.

Let us know if you need anything. All the best to you and yours.
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  #60  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:58 PM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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Today's update. She woke up and told me she had plans to meet T for coffee. I told her to have fun and tell him I said hello.

One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think thats great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back'. He says he cares about me and doesnt want to break up my marriage, but then he is very quick to betray my confidence. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a little.

The other thing I thought I would throw out to this audience since you are so helpful is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?

I also asked if she and I could spend some quality time later to just chill. No deep conversations, no stress, no need for xanax (lol). She was open to that so I am hoping we can try and resume a normal life.

Lets be positive and hope for the best.

Thanks again to all! Hope you are all having a great day. Its nice and sunny here.
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