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  #71  
Old 12-09-2011, 03:00 PM
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Default Why does it work?

A friend of mine asked me this question today. Indirectly, kind of. “I don't know, ...”, was his quite exited exclamation, after seeing the ring Lin and I got for each other some days ago. I wear one on each hand on my ring fingers now. “I don't know what and how you do it, but there has to be something that you are doing damn right! How can that even work out?!” Am I? If yes, what is it? I pondered over this issue for quite a while.

What is the most essential thing I need in a relationship besides being and feeling loved? (That is mandatory ) Reliability. Secureness. Certainty. I just have to feel save. The person I bonded myself to, needs to make me feel at ease, my stabilizing element that makes me come to a rest. I was able to observe the effects on Sward when he was wondering if this was still the case during the days he dealt with the news that I was in love with another man. He was shortly robbed of this certainty and safety. And it all came down to: Exclusivity. It was caused by the thought that love has to be concentrated on one person alone and that there was no way that another wouldn't threaten his 'place in my heart'.

But did we really change our old concept that much? It didn't took him too long to actually find his peace again. Why was that? Because we became as exclusive as we have been before, even in the new surrounding for our relationship(s). It isn't only him, but him and another him. And that's all. And he liked that other man. I heard him make comments along the line of, what it means for 'them' to be with me, what spleens I display and how 'they' have to deal with it and so on. Another quite exclusive circle has been founded: The two men that are in a relationship with me.

Mya talked about how the interaction of her husband with potential partners made her uneasy. I take it that it is the 'potential', which first of all can be neutral, but brings in this surrounding the threatening part to life. It's the potential for drama, for hecticness, even for pain and harm that makes many shy away from the possibility to form new relationships. And that's absolutely valid. I would be extremely cautious as well. I think that this is the main point why I am still not that happy with the thought of Sward or Lin going out to find new partners somewhere down the road or even the possibility of me falling in love (again … *sigh* the first time this happened was arduous enough ^.^). I love and need my peace at home. It would be highly disturbing for me to deal with drama that another person brought to my life, if I won't be fond of this person. And that's why I think the friend-part of metamourship is so important and why it works so well for us.

As long as we live in our vee and practice fidelity, we come closest to what a mono relationship would have been. I don't know if this would work as well, if all three of us were poly and actively searching for new relationships. I consider us extremely lucky to have found each other and be able to share our everyday life and dreams of the future. Because there are so many factors (if you can only live with such a level of involvement to be happy) that can make you stumble while searching for someone new to join the existing dynamic. We were matchable and combinable. And lucky to have found the others that work with us.

On the other hand I am curious if we would be able to pull this kind of thing off again ... I don't want it to happen right now, this would be too much. But maybe we would be ready for something like this later on. If succesful, it would enrich our life even more, I guess. I love family after all - the bigger, the better

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A short story that happened and made me laugh when we got our rings: I tend to regard some things as a kind of 'gear' I need to put on when I go out. The first thing I tend to remove and put aside when I come home was my wedding band. I don't like jewellery, especially when I am typing. So I put it on when I leave the house and leave it be when I am at home. The next thing were my glasses. I need them to read faraway texts and the flat is too small to reach the distance at which I would need them. And now the second ring from Lin.

When I was about to leave for the tutoring lessons, Lin asked me if I got everything. I went like:
Bag? - Check!
Glasses? - Check!
Wedding band? - Check!
Our ring? - Check!
Gear-Check completed, ready to go. (And made the gesture boxers use to check their tape around the hands, knocking my fists against each other.) A nice little occurrence that made all three of us smirk.
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  #72  
Old 12-10-2011, 09:19 PM
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fuchka fuchka is offline
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Interesting. Yeah, sometimes it feels like we're playing with relationships compounds and trying to achieve a stable molecule!

I recently found the terms "polysaturated" and "polyunsaturated" being used to refer to a group's ability to handle more lovers --- makes a lot of sense to me
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  #73  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:09 AM
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Indeed, that would make us polysaturated at the moment But as I wrote, I take it as given that everything could be possible, even if I am not looking forward to the mess it will create. The most likely spot to become 'unsaturated' is Sward from my point of view. We will keep an eye on that dynamic ^.^
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  #74  
Old 12-17-2011, 06:24 AM
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Default Too much …

I am worrying too much. It became clear to us when Sward and I had an argument yesterday. I was teasing Lin, he jumped in, they ended up teasing me. The topic wasn't well chosen, it was about the kilos I gained and I would love to lose again. I got mad at Sward for pushing it too far and we quarreled a bit.

And I discovered a problem. Yes, he didn't mean what he said literally, yes, I was overreacting because .. well, I really would love to lose 10 kilos again (I gained 20 over the last five years, well-proportioned still, but the soft belly is starting to get on my nerves – I used to do lots of sports and it is just a huge difference if you go from well-defined with muscles to well-rounded without some). But be that as it may, the problem was a different one.

The moment we got into the argument my mind instantly shifted to “Is it all because of the situation at hand or is there something poly-related behind his anger?” I neglected the problem at hand and started to dwell on his 'hidden motives'. Well, in fact, there hasn't been much of a problem at all, we never got into real fights because of some stupidity ever, but I recognized somewhere in the process what I was doing.

This could really become problematic. I am so worried about the possibility to discover that what I am living now is bound to fail, that I try to connect each and everything to poly and the possible problems behind it. When I asked Sward about the occurrence and if there really could have been other things on his mind when he started to get pissed, he was astonished and asked me, where I got that idea. When I explained my thoughts, he sighed heavily and said: “Could you just stop worrying? Isn't everything working out just fine?”

Nothing more to say about that, he is right, I need to change my behavior and dispose of some of my fears.
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  #75  
Old 12-17-2011, 03:40 PM
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Hi Phy,

Two things jump out at me. 1) You were upset about your weight and they were making a "joke " of that, and 2) you explained your thoughts and Sward "sighed heavily" and asked you to stop worrying.

I know for me, my feelings and thoughts are worthy of consideration, and it is good to have them validated, instead of teased over or made light of. Sometimes I am ok with that, and other times, I can get offended. It is important to me for the people in my life to be sensitive to my moods.

Did either of them apologize for teasing you about your weight? Did they take a look and realize where what they said may have been hurtful, even if not intentionally so? Sometimes a simple acknowledgement and an apology can make a HUGE difference to me.

Weight is a big deal to women -- we are bombarded by images and standards of beauty that are impossible to achieve. Rather than teasing you about that, it would be nice for the men who love you to focus on saying some endearing things about your beauty, both inside and outside, wouldn't it?

Your tendency to worry about how things are working, in this unconventional life of a V, where there are not many models to follow, well, I think that is NORMAL. Your sensitivity and ability to feel and love deeply, that is probably part of what brought you to polyamory. I think your men love that about you. It's good you defended yourself a bit and hopefully they will both be a little more sensitive, themselves, in the future.

All women get soft bellies over time. It's part of our biology, and it is OKAY. Phy, I am sure your inner beauty and the sparkling light of love in your eyes far surpasses any of that outside stuff anyway.
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  #76  
Old 12-17-2011, 06:15 PM
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Ah sorry, dear Carma, thanks for your support but I seem to have managed to mislead you here. My problems with weight and outer appearance are all complains on a really high level. It's not the highest stage, I wouldn't think that any 20 kilos could be in that category, but I am looking good.

I was really thin when I was younger, did Karate and Kickboxing three to four times a week and was quite muscular. In your measurement it would be equivalent to 152 lbs; given that I am 6'2 that was not much. That changed when I finally started studying. My lazy side got the upper hand and I gained weight (198 lbs at the moment). I was lucky that it didn't settle down in one area exclusively, it spread all over the body and shaped the figure equably. I am really unsure how I should explain our size. It's different from US standards, but I guess you get the right picture when I say that I am able to wear shirts of the size M. But they can be tight at times (I love that my breast have gotten bigger btw, but they are never a topic anyone of us would complain about obviously ). I hate it that there is this little muffin top, that never has been there my whole life *mumbles* That's why I am not satisfied with my body anymore.

So, after those details are clarified, I need to go into detail why he didn't treat me badly during that occurrence. Because he really didn't do that much wrong to me, I really need to come to his defence here.

To your first point: Well, it's kind of an permanent issue I have had. I am a perfectionist at times. Not every minute of the day, but I can be meticulous. And I am really strict when it comes to appearances and looks. I teased Sward for years because of the weight he had gained over the years. As I said, our eating habits were really horrible, my metabolism changed some years ago, his was never able to compensate the unhealthy food despise the hard work he engaged in every day. And he has a weak spot for sweets. Those factors lead to him gaining 88 lbs (from 198 when we met in 2000 to 286 lbs in his peak-period). He reduced his weight drastically over the last two months by 30 lbs (I am really surprised by his success and a bit envious that he was able to pull that off from one day to the other, but proud on the other hand as well of course).

As you can see, it has always been a topic for us during the last years. I can get on his nerves with this issue. Especially because both of them tell me every day how great I look, how they love this or that about me or my body (both with words and by physical affectionate doings). Or they just shake their heads and tell me how I can get such an idea, especially now that I have two men telling me how great I am ... I really can't complain about that. But I love to do so nevertheless, I have to admit. Partially because I am really unsatisfied with my looks at the moment, partially because *whispers* who doesn't like to hear compliments?

To your second point: He didn't sigh at my worries about my weight, he sighed about my tendency to over-think things and create problems where none are there actually. And even if he had sighed at the other topic: who wouldn't at times if they said everything that is possible to say in that regard already? Who doesn't know this conversation: “I am fat!” - “No honey, you aren't, you look great, honestly, I love everything about you.” - “Oh, you are making things up, look at this and that and … argh... I don't like how I look any more! Nothing fits and everything is just too small.” - “But you still look fabulous in those trousers and I love how your voluptuous curves fill that dress.” - “Voluptuous?! You really think that I gained that much fat to call me this?” and so on … I know how stupid this is, but at times it comes over me and nothing he says is able to do any good. Just because his standards aren't mine, I will be satisfied when I am finally able to please my own standards again.

And they take my worries seriously. But we all know that nothing can be done by words alone. I need to get my lazy ass up and do something about it. I am finally at the point where I will start my sports again. Some month into the future my problems should be a lot smaller than now.

Well, this has gotten really long. I was just so touched by your fierce answer that I wanted to clarify things. Thank you for your encouragement. The main reason why I and they were worried by this occurrence is that I shouldn't mix up normal every day stuff with problems directly related to our poly situation. And yes, I think as well that is quite normal to do this, but one needs to be aware of this dynamic if one doesn't want to stir up even more problems that aren't really there.

____________

On a side note: I hope you are well and everything is developing to your contentment. (((Hugs to you )))
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Last edited by Phy; 12-17-2011 at 08:03 PM.
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  #77  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:02 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Worrying about your tendency to worry is the sign of a champion worrier!

I know this is a simplistic response, but I really think you guys are going to be ok.
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  #78  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:07 PM
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You put that wonderfully Made me smile, thanks for that. I need to save that title; Lin and Sward just told me to tell you that they are on the same page with you there.
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  #79  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:30 PM
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Phys - I have the same deal with worrying! It's been really useful for me to figure times when I'm making things more difficult by not trusting the net. Giving people space to process things... Being okay with the fact that this relationship adventure probably does have all sorts of influences in our moods, and is possible subconsciously triggering things (in part) at any time, but that it's sometimes impossible/impractical to vivisect which bits are "poly" issues and which aren't, and letting each person be responsible for their own communication. If my partner says it's not an issue, I trust that it's not. I will be open to hearing that they have changed their minds, but I will not second guess the situation. Trusting each other to bring things up when we feel we need to talk about it. Enjoying the fact that things are way less messed up than we fear!

One of my favourite movies of all time is a NZ flick called 'The Price of Milk'. Just found out there are copies of the DVD for sale online! (Have spent ages trying to find it in shops; duh) A summary of the film will not do it justice but whenever I watch it, it reminds me to not worry that there are hidden difficulties in relationships... because that in itself can create a difficulty

Go well, and I second what AM said above
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  #80  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuchka View Post
[...] letting each person be responsible for their own communication. If my partner says it's not an issue, I trust that it's not. I will be open to hearing that they have changed their minds, but I will not second guess the situation. Trusting each other to bring things up when we feel we need to talk about it. Enjoying the fact that things are way less messed up than we fear!
I have given a similar advice to rory some time ago ... well, lesson not learned yet myself as it seems Yes, you are right, I need to improve that point but the tendency to worry goes hand in hand with my tendency to think for thinking’s sake. I love to think and I am practical, so the process goes like this:

Hmmm... boring, nothing to do? *brain switched on* Well, what do we have at hand at the moment? *skipping through the latest occurrences* Oh! There was this strange vibe I got in situation x when y told me z ... *endorphins are released* Great, let's dwell on this one for a while

Resulting in: Phy is happy that her mind is occupied and she has the feeling of doing something productively, because – who knows! - there could have been hidden problems under those faint signals Phy thinks to have received.

I promised to work on this. I am already at the point that I myself notice the pattern most of the time. It will get better!
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Last edited by Phy; 12-17-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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