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  #221  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:36 AM
km34 km34 is offline
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I also think the pic you took is great! I like angles in my pictures, though.

Looks like a wonderful time.
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  #222  
Old 06-16-2012, 07:59 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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I loved your photos! And of course, always love your stories. Try giving your dog pumpkin, and a little pepto bismal - helps mine when they have tummy troubles!
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  #223  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:51 AM
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Well, as always: Thanks for the comments. Happy that you like what you read and especially happy that you seem to like my jittery picture Distracts me a bit from my migraine, it's really awful today, made me wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning today *sigh* But as I am already awake and sleepless, I could write a little update. Will hopefully be able to sleep some more when the painkillers kick in.

And in regard to our dog: She is doing way better. We ordered some special food for her and it seems to work. Not completely healthy, but she is on the upgrade again.

There has been a 'kind of' apology from my mother. I was over after work to ask for news about her treatment and what next steps they decided to take. First of all: Good news! The smaller knot in her left breast has vanished, the bigger one was remarkably reduced by the chemo. One of her biggest fear was soothed by this as well, because she was afraid of the cancer spreading like in my uncles case. But as it has such a positive effect on the ones in her breast, the risk is small that something else could have survived elsewhere as well. She will always need treatment and regular checks after this, but it looks good right now. As soon as the chemo is through, she will undergo surgery and get her breasts enucleated (I have no idea if this is the right word to use in this context, but it is what basically will happen. Gives me goosebumps *shivers*).

She was in exceptional great mood when she told me about the progress and kept on talking about this and that. Suddenly she stated that she hadn't seen Sward in a while, if he was too busy to come over for a visit like he always does. I paused a minute and thought about the right timing to tell her about how upset some of her comments made us and especially Sward. I decided to at least let her know that there was something off and she should ask Sward for the details personally. As it wasn't my place to tell her about this. She caught 'We were upset' pretty well and asked what the things would have been, that made 'us' upset. That Lin didn't seem to be upset when he had been over to thank her for the present (another little story). That's when I decided to talk to her right there.

I told her that all of us had decided to leave things be for now, as we didn't wanted to excite her further and didn't wanted to discuss emotional topics during a time she was obviously coping really badly with the general news of me being intimately involved with both men. But that there have been some non poly related topics that really hit some nerves.

1. That the comment about me not caring about her or anyone and just doing what pleases me and never looking out for someone other than myself was something that Lin (and I of course as well) was majorly upset about. She said that she never actually 'said' that. Well, maybe it wasn't what she meant, but she surely voiced it like that literally. She said that she was talking about how things never affect me as far as the opinion of others is concerned. As she went on explaining what she had said from her point of view, I realized that she really believed that those words never left her lips in this way or with this meaning. And after making my point (yes, I never cared for the opinion of strangers judging me or my life but how I always care for the opinion of those near to us/me, even if I tend to discuss their point of view in depth when conflicting with mine) I let her be. It was enough to hear that she didn't meant what she said.

2. That Sward has been really hurt by hearing about her view of him as 'a man who isn't able to feed a family' despite him doing everything he can and de facto doing feeding a family right now as the only one being employed full time at the moment. I didn't go in depth there. This was Sward's point to make in my opinion. She explained that she never thought of him as 'incapable' but that she just gets frustrated about him not having enough confidence to leave his current job (she believes his boss to take advantage of him and his abilities, not paying him enough, letting him work overtimes and so on) and look for something better just because he feels inferior because of his bad degree and adjusted final examination because of his dyslexia. That was clearly not what she said. And I believe that this wasn't what she meant either. It surely plays a role but his low-paying job belittles him in her view. I left it at the point of making clear that Sward hasn't come over to visit her because of this comment.

3. And all of us being not pleased by her comment on how dirty we all are, that she doesn't want to rent the flat on the first floor of the front house to us because we would just ruin everything. (I think I didn't talk about that one up to now on here.) That was the moment when I realized that I was still the little girl in her eyes. Yes, I have been messy during my teenage years. Even during the times of Sward and I owning our first flat. Both of us have a slightly messed up sense of order and cleanliness and are perfectly fine with some dust and scattered things. (Those last two points survived till today.) But you surely could call our flat unclean back then. Problem: This was nearly ten years ago. Yes, according to the standard of my mother, we are still far from being perfect. And every time, she discovers some dog hair in the hallway or catches a glimpse of our filled sink (the dishwasher broke shortly after Lin moved in and he tends to do the washing-up every other day) she is right back in those times when we still struggled with housekeeping and the like completely.

Therefore I tried to point out that we changed, that those years aren't reality right now and that we even renovated the whole flat this year. That she liked it. That she said the flat never looked better than right now. That we weren't those teenagers any longer and that we thought about moving into that bigger flat because we will be in need of a room for a little child sooner than later. And that she should know perfectly well, that we are mature and responsible-minded enough to not let a child grow up in unclean surroundings. She thoroughly apologized for this comment and the assumptions being made from her point of view.

All in all this was enough. I wanted her to realize that she didn't acted decently back then and now, she did as much by talking about everything. There are still some things that will come up and back from time to time and I will discuss those, when they arise as a topic next time. But for now, I am satisfied with this outcome. Completely satisfied as soon as Sward and her talking in general. One of the first comments she made when I said that Sward was working too much right now, even being away whole Saturdays was “He isn't trying to escape from the situation at your place right now, is he?” He clearly needs to have a heart to heart with her.
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  #224  
Old 06-22-2012, 12:46 PM
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So, regarding my head still no improvement, those headaches are a pain in the ass. It's one week now and I am fed up with it. But well, they fit the rest of the things going on, it hasn't been all roses the last days. (Sorry in advance, this is going to be a long read this time.)

My BiL came over on Tuesday to chat a bit. I wasn't in the mood for his (from time to time) unreflected talks. Didn't stop him from telling us about how he was pressed to inform the publican of the bar where the marksmen meet (all of them, the gun range is in the basement of the building) about our situation. As he seemed to have approached him to get to know, what the thing with Sward and me this new guy is all about. The publican of all persons. I was like head → desk. Well, we told my BiL that we won't keep it a secret if someone really would come to us and ask questions, that he shouldn't feel forced to lie about this, but in this case, I was just hoping for some common sense, I guess. Well, I hoped in vain. Let the gossiping begin.

The second thing he told Lin and me was that he and my sister talked about the whole situation, how it of course can't last forever and was bound to fail, how he and her would always (of course!) defend us if someone would attack us for this, but how they believe that one of the relationships will suffer and not survive, sooner than later. Their educated guess: the marriage was bound to fail, Sward has been so different, there has to be something going on, we couldn't be as happy as in the past. I just looked at him in disbelieve. He was talking about it in a kind of 'Ah, poor thing … there there, everything will turn out alright, just let me manage this for you' manner. Maybe I should add that this patronizing and know-it-all attitude is typical for him. It's the trait that gets Sward worked up in no time, every time the two of them talk.

Lin stayed calm and tried to explain that this reaction of the two of them was understandable, because all they are able to see on a day to day basis, was Lin and I, as Sward was working so much. Of course they had to have the impression of Lin's and my relationship to be stronger. BiL skipped in: “Well, no he has been changed during times when all of us are together as well.” I explained that this could be due to the stress he is constantly exposed to at work. That indeed, he has changed a bit because of the constant pressure, but not because there was something different or 'not OK' with our marriage. No, there just had to be something else, from BiL's point of view. And I was like, if you think so …

I told Sward about those three points (the one from the last entry, that he should finally find some time and space to talk to my mother, that there may be something going on at the marksmen association and that my sister and her husband are kind of weighing the potential of our two relationships and see ours at a disadvantage). That's when the quarrels between the three of us began.

Sward is really stressed right now. I know that. But I can't keep the rest of the not-work-related-world from him because of it. I understand that he is unnerved by the need to talk to all those people (my mother, his best buddy among the marksmen and our neighbor, the more official persons of the association, maybe my sister and her husband). He doesn't want to. The only thing I explicitly asked for was the talk with my mother. The rest is his decision to make. He is the social animal in our relationship, has always been the one to go out and socialize with everyone, I can't change that now, as he is pressed for time all the time. And I can't fix this issue with my mother either and her view of him being manipulated into this. I don't want some huge misunderstanding building up in my direct surroundings. He felt cornered and was totally irritated by this, what made him give unmotivated, so-so decisive answers to my demands and made him just leave the room in the end.

I utterly hate this behavior. When he feels pressured and doesn't know how to handle things or doesn't want to be bothered by tings any longer, he just leaves. And everything just because I wanted to hear a clear answer to my request of looking into things with my mother. He himself felt he had already answered that, but his mumbling and briefness didn't come across as cooperative, or that he understood at all what I was asking of him.

Well, after a quiet dinner some minutes later, he left for some hours. Lin tends to tune up his headphones as soon as he notes that Sward and I talk in private about some matters and I informed him why Sward had left and what the matter was. That was the point when I realized that Swards behavior of the past weeks had not only bothered me but Lin as well.

Lin is the type of guy who always balances pros and cons before going into an argument. (Unlike me, I just blurt out what is on my mind and why.) There have been many situations during those weeks when he thought about the necessity to talk to Sward about something bothering him about the way he handled certain things or how he behaved in certain situations, but he always decided to gauge it for the time being, as it didn't seem important enough to make a scene because of it.

What Lin detected was a general attitude in Sward's behavior that was bugging him more and more. He called it the 'whipped puppy'. Yes, Sward does have it hard right now, but the only thing he does to counter that (if you can call this 'countering' at all) is vent about how bad the situation at work is and how exhausted he fells at home. This doesn't change anything. Sward isn't drowning in self-pity, but there is a quite a bit of it in his daily talks. And Sward's tendency to sweep things under the rug was bugging him big times. And that Sward wasn't able to just stand up for himself and say right away if something was hurting him, or if he didn't agree with something or if something was just rubbing him the wrong way.

I guess Lin isn't feeling that great right now as well, normally he would just regard this as something that is typical for Sward without loosing his calm about it. He isn't someone who gets involved in the business of others that fast. I don't know what it is that is bugging him, but I guess it's the overall situation with work and the things going on on our 'coming out poly front'. When Sward came home later that evening, I was already in bed because of my headaches, Lin tried to explain to him, what he thought of the situation, but Sward didn't wanted to talk about it again and snapped at him. Lin decided to stay calm and not answer right away, as there has been enough tension going o that day and talked to Sward the next evening on Wednesday.

Sward and I didn't talk about the issue till the next morning. When he left the house he went to attend the weekly meeting at the pub and talk to some of his acquaintances. No one said a word (didn't expect anything else) and he came home with the confirmation that those meetings aren't something for him any longer. He didn't attend them for nearly two years, it's just internal politics stuff and such and most of the members are really old. Well, be that as it may, we talked again and cleared the miscommunication from Tuesday evening.

As I said, I understand that the situation isn't great for him right now, but he can't deal with it by postponing things endlessly just because they are difficult and inconvenient. And concerning the communication part, that he finally had to learn to just say “Stop right there, you are getting on my nerves big time, leave the issue be, I understood what you want to tell me, but I won't discuss this any further right now.” It would really help if he finally managed to do this in time and not wait until he is so on the edge that he feels the need to just leave the situation in general.

After Lin and Sward had their talk in the evening, things are civil and sorted out at the moment. I don't know what they talked about, but both seem to be satisfied for now. The tension is gone.

I was just thinking about the difficult situation for both of them. There is whole different level between friends living together than between lovers living together. I think that you are more willing to overlook and put up with negative behavior if the other person is as important for you as a partner is. But in the case of friends, I tend to be a bit less tolerant. Or at least, I don't need to be as I don't live with them. I can overlook something bugging me or not regard it as that important, because I don't have to deal with it 24/7.

This was the first time, a personal trait was the cause for some friction. I hope that things are really sorted out, it's not that I don't trust them to have solved the problem this time, but when talking to Lin about the things disturbing him in regard to Sward, I noticed that I started to protect Sward and explain why he was this way or the other. Lin hasn't lived this long with him, Lin is a whole different person than I am and I don't know if he is able to put up with some of Sward's traits the way I do. I guess we reached a point where things are finally at a stage of looking really into things. I guess we will find the answer during the next year or so, if this is going to last for a really long time or not. It depends on the two of them arranging themselves with the respective other on a level of partners that are as a matter of fact just … yeah, what are they? I am kind of nervously awaiting to put some kind of stamp on their relationship. I am unsure if the connection between them is that of roommates, some looser family-like structure (similar to brothers) or real friends on the best buddy level. Time will tell.
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  #225  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:48 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Obviously their dynamics will be what they well be, but... I really like the model of thinking of metamours in co-primary situations as being like siblings. Siblings have, ultimately, one thing that binds them together -- their shared relationship with their parents. Similarly, metamour co-primaries are bound by a shared relationship. Siblings may be similar or different, they may be extremely close or they may fight, but at the end of the day they know that their shared relationship will pull them back together again and again, so they need to at least be cool with each other and, ideally, should be allies.

Your BiL's reaction makes me think of when my roommate, Eddie, came out as FtM trans. Everyone kept asking "Oh, what about poor Liam?" (Liam being Eddie's husband). Now, a couple years later, no one asks that anymore because he's obviously fine. But people just couldn't believe it at first.

What a shame that people can't mind their own business.

I hope Sward feels better soon!!
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  #226  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:02 AM
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I know what you mean, but what worries me there is that there is a 'forced' element to that view, as siblings can't change who their brother/sister is. The connection is defintiely there, but I was pondering about the effect this can have, as I don't want them to just put up with everything because they feel like they have no choice. I don't have the impression that this situation is in place right now, don't get me wrong, but I am afraid to find it to be true in later times because they just don't like this or that about the other but don't see another way of handling things and therefore put up with it. If this makes sense ^.^
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  #227  
Old 06-23-2012, 07:20 AM
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Hmm, I think I see what you're saying. But, I mean, as long as they're each involved with you they *will* share that bond of being metamours, whether they choose to acknowledge it or have a friendship or not. They can end the connection between each other by breaking up with you but they can't stop being metamours otherwise... that's what makes it feel similar to me, is that the bond is through another person and they can make of it what they will from there, good or bad (hopefully very good!).

"I am afraid to find it to be true in later times because they just don't like this or that about the other but don't see another way of handling things and therefore put up with it." <-- There are things I don't like about my roommates, my friends, my metamour, even my lovers. If it's something that's possible to talk about and work on, and it's important enough to try, I may do that. Or I may just accept it/put up with it. Isn't that normal? What other option do I have aside from walking away? No one is perfect.
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  #228  
Old 06-23-2012, 07:48 AM
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Yeah, you are right. Seems to be a typical case of me worrying too much. There is something that I can't put my finger on specifically but something is bugging me.

I think this doesn't sit so well with me because I hate forcing other people. It's the least I would want to do and I am actually doing so by 'making' them metamours. *sigh* Yes, they consented to this, they want this to work and want to work on possible problems as soon as they arise. They don't seem to feel uncomfortable at all right now, I don't really know why this is rubbing me the wrong way.

I will do some more thinking, I guess
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  #229  
Old 06-29-2012, 05:08 AM
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Default Child and future worries, but still loving more

Have had too much time on my hands as it seems and again started playing the 'What would be, if …' game. Context is the fast approach of August and our plan to start trying for a child then. I have worried about this topic and the possible pitfalls around it for two weeks now and wasn't too sure how to voice my insecurities, as most of them have been 'kind of' discussed already. But what worries me aren't so much the single issues but a possible combination of them.

I didn't quite notice how burdening this has been for me since Lin voiced some concerns yesterday morning and I reacted by getting all teary and such. He scolded me for worrying on my own and not talking to them about it. I therefore told Sward this morning that I would like to have a talk in the evening about the things worrying me to make sure or to reassure myself that we would be on the same page, if any possible scenario come into being, that everyone knows how the other(s) see the possible issues each is having.

On a much happier note, I have to say that the last night has been great, as well as the last week in regard to couple and vee dynamic. I feel so much 'in love' and 'love' that I really struggle with the fact that I am voicing my love unequally. I still haven't told Lin the notorious “I love you”. It's such a big hurdle for myself, I am at the stage of feeling it at the tip of my tongue in so many situations but it won't come out. I know this behavior, it was the same with Sward back then. Really curious right now if I will be able to say it on our anniversary in two weeks. I feel so secure in my feelings at the moment and so loved … that I am still able to worry is in a way unbelievable, even for myself.
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  #230  
Old 06-29-2012, 05:58 AM
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I can't really relate to the difficulty of saying 'I love you'. I'm curious, once you say it for the first time, does it then become easier?
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