Part 1 of my Hydra of Issues

MuffinButton

New member
Just as to not get myself insta-banned from my first post I will mention it here that what I am about to ask what I like to call the multi-headed dick hydra that is my relationship issues. To be honest, it's my own fault since I have the need to help the people I care about but that still doesn't deny the fact that there are people who have issues. Few being my own.

I'll start with an easy one.

My current partner (18F) is still in high school and suffers from depression and or anxiety that has and still is creating many problems for her. Surprisingly, accepting me as poly isn't one of the issues. The main issue is her refusal to get professional help due to her having some of the shittiest parents I've seen that aren't just straight up pathetic excuses for human beings. And believe me when I say this is outside of the fact they despise me for no reason. Pardon me for the major digression. Once I can get her into therapy/counseling, we can start a joint effort on adding a third partner (18F) but that will be my next post assuming this one gets any response.
 
Frankly, i am at loss at what you expect here, since there is no question, just a short intro into some hard situation.

But you wanted a response, so here it is i guess :D

Btw, i think there is always a reason, even if it's unreasonable or straight up stupid for the observer. Or invisible. Hell, often people reactions don't have much to do with the object, but with their past and given what you wrote about the parents that might be the case.
 
Frankly, i am at loss at what you expect here, since there is no question, just a short intro into some hard situation.

But you wanted a response, so here it is i guess :D

Btw, i think there is always a reason, even if it's unreasonable or straight up stupid for the observer. Or invisible. Hell, often people reactions don't have much to do with the object, but with their past and given what you wrote about the parents that might be the case.

I apparently forgot to add that part. Thank you for pointing that out
 
Just as to not get myself insta-banned from my first post I will mention it here that what I am about to ask what I like to call the multi-headed dick hydra that is my relationship issues. To be honest, it's my own fault since I have the need to help the people I care about but that still doesn't deny the fact that there are people who have issues. Few being my own.

I'll start with an easy one.

My current partner (18F) is still in high school and suffers from depression and or anxiety that has and still is creating many problems for her. Surprisingly, accepting me as poly isn't one of the issues. The main issue is her refusal to get professional help due to her having some of the shittiest parents I've seen that aren't just straight up pathetic excuses for human beings. And believe me when I say this is outside of the fact they despise me for no reason. Pardon me for the major digression. Once I can get her into therapy/counseling, we can start a joint effort on adding a third partner (18F) but that will be my next post assuming this one gets any response.

Edit: Because I completely failed to add a question I will add it here.

How can I get my girlfriend to go to a psychiatrist despite the fact she still lives with her parents?
 
Hello MuffinButton,

Don't worry this is an adult forum, you are allowed to use explicit language. Just be respectful of others, that is all the guidelines ask of you.

I am a little unclear on the situation with your current partner. Is she not getting professional help because she doesn't want to, or is it because her parents won't let her? If it's her parents who are stopping her, that is a more complicated problem. If it's just her, then you just need to think of a way to convince her.

Either way, I think it would probably help if you yourself set up some sessions with a counselor. A counselor might be able to help you figure out how to get your current partner into counseling. As well as how to handle her parents.

We can of course help here too, just, if you could post with more details, that would probably help us do our part.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
When you say that your girlfriend is "still" in high school, does that mean you are out of high school and therefore older than her? How much older?

Please give us a little more info about yourself. Otherwise it's hard to offer much advice.
 
When you say that your girlfriend is "still" in high school, does that mean you are out of high school and therefore older than her? How much older?

Please give us a little more info about yourself. Otherwise it's hard to offer much advice.

Yes, my mistake. I left out a lot more information than I thought I did. I am currently in my second semester of freshman year of college. I am 18 as well, I had made the cutoff when I was young which is why I'm the same age as her but 2 years ahead of her in schooling. She is a junior in high school
 
I am a little unclear on the situation with your current partner. Is she not getting professional help because she doesn't want to, or is it because her parents won't let her? If it's her parents who are stopping her, that is a more complicated problem. If it's just her, then you just need to think of a way to convince her.

Yes, I apologize for not giving enough information. The reason she isn't getting help is a combination of both not wanting to get it and her parents possibly stopping her.

Either way, I think it would probably help if you yourself set up some sessions with a counselor. A counselor might be able to help you figure out how to get your current partner into counseling. As well as how to handle her parents.

We can of course help here too, just, if you could post with more details, that would probably help us do our part.

I have talked to a counselor about it and he gave me the suggestion of contacting the head of guidance at the school and have them call her in but I am afraid of scaring her too much into the point where she has a panic attack. The parents he just said to wait it out. I've been talking with him since before I started dating this girl and I've told him about the parents and their various ways of rejecting me.
 
I'm sorry you struggle. You sound like you care, but maybe don't know how to best show your GF support at this time.

FWIW... here is my opinion if it helps you any.

How can I get my girlfriend to go to a psychiatrist despite the fact she still lives with her parents?

You can let it be her responsibility. Ask her what HER plan is for her anxiety/depression management. Is she going to see a psych? Something else? And how you can appropriately support her in that.

Maybe her plan is to wait until college so there can be more separateness from the parents. So she can access the college health care clinic. Walk there and make her own appoints vs how it is now -- them making appointments for her or having to drive her and knowing too much of her healthcare details.

Maybe her plan is to go military and access military health care.

Maybe her plan is to get a job after HS, and access health care under her own insurance.

Maybe she has another plan different than those. But I think it has to be HER plan.

Rather than YOU making a plan FOR her and then pushing her along that path. Because if her parents already overstep boundaries with her? You doing the same is not being any kinder to her or better than what the parents do.

You could encourage her to take personal responsibility and expect her be in charge of making her own plan. Tell her you are willing to help with reasonable and rational requests and are around to be supportive. She can avail herself if she wants to. If she doesn't avail herself right now? Respect that decision.

Ultimately your GF is best off finishing her teens and becoming a young adult and taking responsibility for her own self. Not "switching" from parents who overstep in her life to a BF who oversteps in her life. Right?

I have talked to a counselor about it and he gave me the suggestion of contacting the head of guidance at the school and have them call her in but I am afraid of scaring her too much into the point where she has a panic attack. The parents he just said to wait it out. I've been talking with him since before I started dating this girl and I've told him about the parents and their various ways of rejecting me.

Are YOU anxious? Because if you get anxious dating a girl in this situation, and then you get all "fix-y" more to help your own anxiousness than to help her... that's a separate issue. You could seek a counselor for yourself to help you with your anxiety management and work on personal boundaries. Or you could stop dating her at this time and reconnect once she's graduated and away from the parents so it's not pinging your anxiety button as much.

You date her, not her parents. All you have to do is be basic polite around them. Then there's nothing for them to complain about. If you choose to be supportive but not pushy? And you encourage her to become responsible for her own self? What's there to complain about there? That's normal growing up stuff as a person changes from dependent teenager to independent young adult.

But if you are all up in her business calling her high school and trying to get the school to call her in to her guidance counselor when neither she nor the parents (her legal guardians) are asking for anything... that kinda makes you look like a weird rando bothering the girl. I'm surprised your counselor suggested that.

Galagirl
 
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The main issue is her refusal to get professional help due to her having some of the shittiest parents I've seen that aren't just straight up pathetic excuses for human beings.
What are her issues? Why do you think she can't do without professional help? Wouldn't it be better to work towards moving out, that towards therapy at this point in her life? It depends.

Galagirl is right, although you date her, ultimately you don't get to decide what she does with her issues.
 
Unless she is actually suicidal in which case a call to authorities might be in order without worrying about her panicking.

Leetah
 
What are her issues? Why do you think she can't do without professional help? Wouldn't it be better to work towards moving out, that towards therapy at this point in her life? It depends.

Galagirl is right, although you date her, ultimately you don't get to decide what she does with her issues.

Yeah, I understand not trying to push her to do it. That's my own fear being projected onto her. Which I've now realized thanks to you and Galagirl.
As for why I think she can't do without help. Her anger was bad enough that she named it as if it were a separate persona. My girlfriend called it "her." It was one of the first things she told me when we started dating. However, in the two years I had with her in high school, not once did I see any sign of it and neither did she. However, now that I am in college her anger has been getting worse because her anxiety is getting worse. The idea of "her" is a lashing out of violence towards others or herself. And I mean fantasies of mass murder by tooth and nail. No weapons. I promise that.

As for moving out, its larger changes that scare her the most. After the suicide threat, she was put into the hi-focus program which she despised every second of because it was a massive shift in schedule.
 
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Thank you for more info. I do sympathize. I don't think it changes my opinion much though. It still isn't your place. :(

You too might be a minor even if you are in college. You guys at 18 are in the fuzzy space. It's usually somewhere between 18-21 depending on location. (You don't have to say where you live here. Maintain your internet anonymity.)

However, in the two years I had with her in high school, not once did I see any sign of it and neither did she. However, now that I am in college her anger has been getting worse because her anxiety is getting worse. The idea of "her" is a lashing out of violence towards others or herself. And I mean fantasies of mass murder by tooth and nail. No weapons. I promise that.

I would encourage you to encourage HER to speak to someone about this anger/anxiety. She could take personal responsibility. She could talk to her guidance counselor, her parents, turn herself into ER, etc.

If she's not doing it? You may have to do something you might not love in order to maintain YOUR well-being.

1) Tell her parents she says this stuff, and urge them to get her to care. As her next of kin, they are the ones actually responsible for her since she's still a minor/dependent.

2) If they don't? Could talk to your OWN parents and ask them for help and tell this this goes beyond your current skills. Maybe they can talk to her parents or call DCF (or the equivalent wherever it is you live) that there's a minor who needs help -- knowing that she and parents might suspect you were involved somehow.

3) Break up with with her because this is more than you can handle at this time if she's going around untreated.

4) A combo of the above or something else I cannot think of right now.

Mental health stuff doesn't make her a bad person. But you might find yourself bumping up on a personal limitation -- that not everyone has the skills/spoons to deal with stuff like this. It is ok if you come to find you do not.

At this time as a minor, the parents have a responsibility toward helping her maintain her wellness. She has a responsibility to report to her parents that she needs something because they are not mind readers. At 18 as a minor dependent, her health and well being is a "shared" job. When she is no longer a minor -- her health and well being will all be on her.

As for moving out, its larger changes that scare her the most. After the suicide threat, she was put into the hi-focus program which she despised every second of because it was a massive shift in schedule.

It sounds like her parents DID try to help after a suicide threat and put her in a program of some sort. As a patient, she might not love the program, but her parents are trying.

If her parents suck at doing their part of the job entirely (vs trying things and not finding the right fit yet)... She could call other relatives, DCF and so on if the biggest thing provoking the anger/anxiety is living with the parents who do nothing to help her. I think she has to be the one to initiate that though. If she wants to become an emancipated teen or seek other paths for her health or whatever it is she wants.

So it doesn't really change much from your angle. You are the 18 yr old BF who is dating her, but not actually next of kin or in a position to do much for her in this arena other than be supportive and encourage her toward making healthy choices.

Like YOU cannot be the one to set things in motion because she is not your dependent . YOU cannot set things in motion because you aren't the patient who is going to be the one doing the hard work.

SHE has to set it in motion because she's the one who would have to do the work to improve her health situation.

Otherwise, even the parents are going to have a hard time. They can put in program after program, but if she's not going to do her side of the job in the shared responsibility? She is not there to take personal responsibility and do the hard work?

I don't know that anyone will be able to help her because she won't allow them to help her and she also won't help herself.

It's a very tough situation. :(

What YOU can do for yourself is draw up your own personal boundaries. Things for YOU to obey to help keep YOU safe/well. I will give you some examples but you have to decide where YOUR lines are drawn.

I have a personal boundary for myself. I will not hang out with unmanaged people. It's ok to have illnesses, but if the person is not doing their therapies and meds and whatever it is in their management plan? Then I don't want to hang around with them. This is so my OWN wellness, anxiety, and stress can stay ok. I already do Alzheimer eldercare and my free time is valuable to me. I don't want to spend it doing MORE patient stuff being "on the clock just with someone else." If they are unmanaged, I will ask them to do their management plan and tell them I'm backing off. They can call me to hang out when they have it together. Ball is in their court.

I also have a personal boundary for myself. If someone tells me they are suicidal, I call 911 and their next of kin. I've had to make that call before and it is SUPER unpleasant. Which is why I created boundary #1 -- to minimize having to do this. And I tell people I have this other personal boundary ahead of time. So don't be calling me if they don't want that to happen. They know exactly what to expect if they do call me with suicide threats. Can't act all surprised.

I will serve on someone else's suicide prevention plan if they actually have one and if I have the spoons -- for 6 months at a time only. This spreads the load around the family and friends so no one person is burning out. I do not exist to be someone else's life raft.

Me first. Not in a selfish way, but in a self care way. I cannot effectively help other people if I am running low on gas. When I have a full tank, then I can offer my help to others in a way that doesn't lead to me burning out or me hurting myself because I overextend myself.

These might be things you have not thought about before, but when you live long enough, you see a lot of stuff happen in Life. And then I think it is best to draw your personal boundaries for behavior you will and will not deal in and HOW you will deal in it if you do.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you for more info. I do sympathize. I don't think it changes my opinion much though. It still isn't your place. :(

You too might be a minor even if you are in college. You guys at 18 are in the fuzzy space. It's usually somewhere between 18-21 depending on location. (You don't have to say where you live here. Maintain your internet anonymity.)

Where I live, yes 18 is the age of legal adulthood. And I do agree with you that I can't be the one to make it happen. I fully understand that now. I do believe that I should help her on but not as "aggressively", for a lack of better words.

If she's not doing it? You may have to do something you might not love in order to maintain YOUR well-being.

1) Tell her parents she says this stuff, and urge them to get her to care. As her next of kin, they are the ones actually responsible for her since she's still a minor/dependent.

2) If they don't? Could talk to your OWN parents and ask them for help and tell this this goes beyond your current skills. Maybe they can talk to her parents or call DCF (or the equivalent wherever it is you live) that there's a minor who needs help -- knowing that she and parents might suspect you were involved somehow.

3) Break up with with her because this is more than you can handle at this time if she's going around untreated.

4) A combo of the above or something else I cannot think of right now.

I am considering the first option but I do want to see if I can take a more passive role in getting her to a therapist.


At this time as a minor, the parents have a responsibility toward helping her maintain her wellness. She has a responsibility to report to her parents that she needs something because they are not mind readers. At 18 as a minor dependent, her health and well being is a "shared" job. When she is no longer a minor -- her health and well being will all be on her.



It sounds like her parents DID try to help after a suicide threat and put her in a program of some sort. As a patient, she might not love the program, but her parents are trying.

If her parents suck at doing their part of the job entirely (vs trying things and not finding the right fit yet)... She could call other relatives, DCF and so on if the biggest thing provoking the anger/anxiety is living with the parents who do nothing to help her. I think she has to be the one to initiate that though. If she wants to become an emancipated teen or seek other paths for her health or whatever it is she wants.

So it doesn't really change much from your angle. You are the 18 yr old BF who is dating her, but not actually next of kin or in a position to do much for her in this arena other than be supportive and encourage her toward making healthy choices.

That would be the next hurdle, when they did enroll her she insisted on the much shorter after-school sessions rather than the full school day sessions and they didn't listen. The reason she had to fake the suicide scare was that she is a people pleaser and lied a lot so she wouldn't disappoint her parents. Unfortunately, they took this as her being a compulsive liar to the point she had complained about a stomach pain/illness for a month and they didn't believe her until she threw up in school one day. They let that sit for an entire month. One reason she always brings up as to why she hasn't gone is that she is just being over-dramatic and there is nothing wrong with her. Words her mother and puts into her head by denying she had mental health issues. The issue is that her parents tend to not listen to her and just do what they think is right. Hell, it took a therapist to tell them they need to yell at her less if they want her to get better.

Again, I am stressed but not like pulling my hair out stressed. Yes it has taken more time than I'd like to admit but I have been getting better. And now that I am here I and not working at the same level as she is I feel I can help a lot more. It seems I was missing the mark in what I was supposed to do.
 
That would be the next hurdle, when they did enroll her she insisted on the much shorter after-school sessions rather than the full school day sessions and they didn't listen. The reason she had to fake the suicide scare was that she is a people pleaser and lied a lot so she wouldn't disappoint her parents. Unfortunately, they took this as her being a compulsive liar to the point she had complained about a stomach pain/illness for a month and they didn't believe her until she threw up in school one day. They let that sit for an entire month. One reason she always brings up as to why she hasn't gone is that she is just being over-dramatic and there is nothing wrong with her. Words her mother and puts into her head by denying she had mental health issues.


  • She won't go to her program because it's not the one she wanted.
  • She fakes a suicide.
  • She lies a lot.
  • She says doesn't go to her program because she's just being over-dramatic and there is nothing wrong with her

Healthy people don't go around faking suicide. There is something wrong here somewhere.

Can you see why the parents DON'T listen to her? And just try to do what they think is right? Because she doesn't give accurate information and then she doesn't follow through on her program. Not giving correct info and not following through doesn't sound like her taking personal responsibility for her health and well being to me.

I feel I can help a lot more. It seems I was missing the mark in what I was supposed to do.

I think she's got a complicated sounding case best left to professionals. I also think it's more than internet people can help with.

I think you could encourage her toward making healthy choices for herself and taking personal responsibility. Then be careful with your own boundaries around this so YOU don't get sucked into a situation that is more than you can deal with.

She didn't get the after school program she wanted right away. She's not willing to do the full school day sessions to get started with some help and then change to the other one? Like take it as stepping stones? People have to start somewhere. If she's waiting to start til it is all "perfect" I guess she'll be waiting a while.

On YOUR end...

Again, I am stressed but not like pulling my hair out stressed. Yes it has taken more time than I'd like to admit but I have been getting better. And now that I am here I and not working at the same level as she is I feel I can help a lot more. It seems I was missing the mark in what I was supposed to do.

I am glad you aren't as stressed as before but you still sound stressed. I mean this kindly, ok? :eek:

Maybe you need to take a step back and assess this relationship? I would like to think at 18, you are after healthy dating and healthy relationships and not draining ones. Right?

Is this a healthy relationship for you to be in right now? Is she a healthy dating partner for you at this time? Maybe rather than being her BF, it's better to not date and just be her friend?

Right now it sounds like the parents are trying to get her care -- programs, therapists, etc. Then she blows a lot of it off, and complains to you that her parents suck.

If she herself just plain won't do the work, she just won't. Whether it is you or her parents arranging the most golden therapist or most golden program... if she's just not going to do the actual work? Nobody can make her. And nobody can do it for her. :(

I wonder if both you and the parents are struggling with that? Just in different ways. You keep wanting to try to get her to go to a psych and they've been yelling at her to try to get her to do stuff too. It's hard to watch a loved one go down this path and accept that unless the patient is going to do to the actual work? And unless the patient is willing to allow others to help them? Nothing is going to change. :(

If it is just going to "same old song, different day" --- the be land of making excuses, repeating drama, and it all gets to be too much for you? It is ok to stop participating. It's ok to break up and not date her again until she decides to get her conditions under better management. If she will not help herself? You don't have to join her on her sinking ship.

I hate to say it that way. :(

But you drowning in all this with her isn't gonna cure her or make her better. :(

Galagirl
 
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  • She won't go to her program because it's not the one she wanted.
  • She fakes a suicide.
  • She lies a lot.
  • She says doesn't go to her program because she's just being over-dramatic and there is nothing wrong with her

Healthy people don't go around faking suicide. There is something wrong here somewhere.

Can you see why the parents DON'T listen to her? And just try to do what they think is right? Because she doesn't give accurate information and she doesn't follow through on her program. Not giving correct info and not following through doesn't sound like taking personal responsibility to me.

She didn't repeatedly fake suicides. It was once because she wanted to see what her parents would do if their hand was finally forced on it. She has talked to her parents about and one of 2 things happen. Either she is dismissed or the mother promises to arrange something and forgets/procrastinates. I will admit, yes she is a perfectionist but more in the destructive sense. The program wasn't a therapy program but a short debriefing period for tensions to die down. It is not a therapy or counseling session of any kind. She did do the week long period that was required and that is what now scares her. She didn't have a choice in the situation whatsoever. Since then, her parents have not set up anything. It has been a year since then, and the only thing that happened was a family counselor that they stopped taking her to. Due to her own anxiety she is too afraid of asking anyone, especially her parents in fear of them yelling at her for being a brat when all she is trying to do is get help.


think she's got a complicated sounding case best left to professionals. I also think it's more than internet people can help with.

I think you could encourage her toward making healthy choices for herself and taking personal responsibility. Then be careful with your own boundaries around this so YOU don't get sucked into a situation that is more than you can deal with.

Yeah, for right now I have to change strategies for this situation. The issue is this deadlock where no one is willing go budge. Meaning if nothing else will I have to. I just wasn't too sure how to.
 
This is very hard to follow when you do not write things in chronological order. :confused:

I cannot tell if the parents are trying to help her but she doesn't do the the things and makes them out to be crap. Or if the parents actually are crap. Or some combo of both.

Regardless of all that... if the bottom line is that her getting health care THROUGH the parents is difficult or no dice?

  • And she doesn't want to go up against them on that because they yell at her?
  • And she doesn't want to start making her own appointments and stop waiting on the mom to make them?
  • And she doesn't want to contact her old therapist to ask them to report that her parents keep her from counseling?
  • And she doesn't want to walk into ER to turn herself in?

What IS she willing to do at this time?

That's why in my other post I wrote that you could support her in HER plan. She has to be the one to make it because presumably then she will own it and actually do it.

At 18 and this close to being done with HS? As sucky as it is to have to postpone healthcare, it might be best for her to buckle down and work on graduating. And then getting her own job or go military so she can have her own insurance so she can do as she wants with her healthcare choices and not have to go through her parents and their health insurance any more.

If that is her plan? Then there is nothing for you to do other than wait for time to go by and encourage her in making healthy decisions for herself in the meanwhile. You cannot make time go faster than it does -- it goes one day at a time.

If you and her are not healthy partners at this time? Because there's SO much on the plate already? I would NOT suggest trying to do poly on top of everything else.

Galagirl
 
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This is very hard to follow when you do not write things in chronological order. :confused:

I cannot tell if the parents are trying to help her but she doesn't do the the things and makes them out to be crap. Or they are actually are crap. Or some combo of both.

I apologize again. Due to my ADD, I can't remember all the details of a situation at a given moment. In conversation, more and more details return to memory and I can share them. Especially for this situation, I am only concerned about specific details since if it is barred by another then why bother keeping it forefront. I'll make a timeline as best I can here.
  • 4 years ago - 1 month stomach issue (caused by imbalance in stomach acid)
  • 3 years ago - started dating, became aware of parents, anxiety + anger slowly declines
  • ~2 years ago - temporary family counselor
  • 1 year go - Faked Suicide attempt + completed 1 week debrief period
  • 1 yr -> present - anxiety and anger getting worse again


Regardless of all that... if the bottom line is that health care THROUGH the parents is no dice?

  • And she doesn't want to go up against them on that because they yell at her?
  • And she doesn't want to start making her own appointments and stop waiting on the mom to make them?
  • And she doesn't want to contact her old therapist to ask them to report that her parents keep her from counseling?
  • And she doesn't want to walk into ER to turn herself in?

What IS she willing to do at this time?

That's why in my other post I wrote that you could support her in HER plan. She has to be the one to make it because presumably then she will own it and actually do it.

At 18 and this close to being done with HS? As sucky as it is, it might be best for her to buckle down and work on graduating. And then getting her own job and her own insurance so she can do as she wants with her health care choices and not have to go through her parents any more.

If that is her plan? There is nothing for you to do other than let time go by. You cannot make it go faster than it does -- one day at a time.

Galagirl

The issue is that she doesn't have a plan. And even if she did, getting help with never take priority. And that I believe is where I should help. She has many thought distortions and issues like believing she is not smart because she is not in an AP class or the issue that she goes into fencing bouts without any plan then gets mad at herself for not winning. She feeds into self-fulfilling loops that continually hurt her.
 
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