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  #11  
Old 11-05-2009, 10:00 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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I think the black/white re-negotiate or not issue has taken off in the comments. I <know> we need to re-negotiate, but I was hoping for some perspective on <how>, or where it seemed the real issue was? Suggestions? Any read on this that this is just a communication issue, or does it sound like something truly unfair taking place?

I'm also struggling to avoid ultimatum language. I know I need the negotiation to be happy, but how do you firmly communicate that without an implicit threat?
There is nothing unfair taking place. There apears to be a breakdown in understanding of what "boundries" are. The real issue is what boundries are for each of you. I know a lot of people have an issue with the idea of black and white boundaries, but really if everything is grey there's no point to establish non binding boundries in the first place. What's the purpose if they can be crossed at the whim of each partner? You may as well just say whatever happens is cool and just natural. I have yet to see lasting arrangements based on that philosophy.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2009, 10:32 PM
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It sounds like you and your lady are entering into a deeper relationship than you or her had before. She seems to be used to the serial poly style where by she has many lovers, none of them particularly deep, but loving nontheless. If you and her want to establish something more deep then, the "anything goes," "we have our freedom" thing doesn't work in my opinion.

Firm boundaries need to be set. Those can be discussed and moved around but they need to be made to protect your hearts and feelings. It simply creates respect for each other and will deepen your relationship to no end. Not to mention the freedom that comes with that kind of commitment.

Interesting you would think this ultimatum talk, hmmmm?
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2009, 10:58 PM
dron dron is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
It sounds like you and your lady are entering into a deeper relationship than you or her had before. She seems to be used to the serial poly style where by she has many lovers, none of them particularly deep, but loving nontheless. If you and her want to establish something more deep then, the "anything goes," "we have our freedom" thing doesn't work in my opinion.

Firm boundaries need to be set. Those can be discussed and moved around but they need to be made to protect your hearts and feelings. It simply creates respect for each other and will deepen your relationship to no end. Not to mention the freedom that comes with that kind of commitment.

Interesting you would think this ultimatum talk, hmmmm?
By "ultimatum" talk I'm trying to understand how to articulate what I need, and have it be understood that it's what I <need>. I don't want it to be a soft "if you could" but an understanding that it is something I firmly need in a relationship right now. So, I'm asking more for suggestions of language choice?
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:27 AM
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I find this so interesting as it reminds me of Mono and my beginnings in a lot of ways....

I will let him go into details if he wants...

First of all, it became evident that I could not have both styles of poly without someone getting hurt. I wanted commitment and depth and someone to know me... I mean really know me. Not just think I'm cute and want to fuck me and call that loving because we would do it often.... sure, that works for some and did for me for a time, but it was not what I wanted for the future and the time came to shit or get off the pot.

Anyway, as I said, he can "detail" if he wants. I know he doesn't like going there anymore as it taints what we have now and I don't want to jeopordize that for anything.

I think what I would say is something along the lines of...."Baby I love you and think we have something really special and unique. I need you to be with just me right now sexually as I find sex special and bonding between us. I understand that we can love, have connection and a strong bond and be able to see others, but for now I need us to respect that we have a stronger bond than the others in our lives that could lead to a primary situation... If you were to have sex with anyone else right now I would think that you don't want the same thing. I very dearly "need" to have a primary relationship with someone and "want" to have that with you." (provided this IS what you want of course.... if not then I think you may want to look at what you do want).
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:56 AM
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I know I need the negotiation to be happy, but how do you firmly communicate that without an implicit threat?
There is always an implicit threat in any negotiation of boundaries--and that's a good thing. For a relationship to be healthy, it has to work for each involved, and each of them has to have enough self-respect to be able to walk away if it's not working and the other person(s) aren't willing to help it work.

So, implicit in any negotiation of boundaries is the understanding that if an accord can't be reached, the relationship won't work and it's essentially over (in that form, at least). Poly, mono, platonic--it's the same for any of them.

If she's not willing to help make it work, then you're best served walking away until she is willing or you find somebody else who is willing to help it work for each of you. That's not only best for you, it's best for her, as she'd not be able to make the sort of commitment necessary for a deeper relationship.
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  #16  
Old 11-06-2009, 02:03 AM
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If she's not willing to help make it work, then you're best served walking away until she is willing or you find somebody else who is willing to help it work for each of you. That's not only best for you, it's best for her, as she'd not be able to make the sort of commitment necessary for a deeper relationship.
Wow..great words.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2009, 03:36 AM
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I'm also struggling to avoid ultimatum language. I know I need the negotiation to be happy, but how do you firmly communicate that without an implicit threat?
By first understanding that you have every right to ask for what you want in your relationship. You can't get what you want unless you ask for it. The tricky part is to ask for it without the expectation that asking automatically means getting what you want.

Of course that also means understanding where your needs are coming from. If they're coming from a place of insecurity in yourself, then there's little your partner can do to assuage that insecurity. If they're coming from a place of insecurity in how the relationship is working, talking about it and clearly articulating your needs can make it a lot easier to work on it.

We have every right to ask for things, our partners have every right to say no. I go into every negotiation with that thought in my head. And if what I'm asking for is essential for me to feel secure in the relationship, then I'll communicate that. Not in the form of "you have to give me this", but in the form of "this is what I really need to feel safe and secure in our relationship". I'll then let my partner choose their own actions with that knowledge. If they choose to honor my feelings and needs then we can move forward. If they choose not to honor my feelings and needs, then I might be examining if the relationship is right for me.

However, my partner also has needs that I would hope are clearly communicated and I would hopefully take them on board and try to honor them as well. If we're both in a situation where honoring the other person's needs means not honoring our own needs, then we probably have goals that are way too different and that would definitely be cause for examination.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2009, 06:53 AM
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well said ceoli
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:58 PM
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well said ceoli
Seconded! Brilliant.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2009, 02:44 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Hear, hear!
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