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  #31  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:33 PM
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He's always here, in the background,,,, gets really emotional about the forums, so he talks through me sometimes...

I got hit by a car tonight, so he is speaking through me a lot tonight as I sit with my head spinning. I'm doing my own fair share of whining tonight.

“Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.” Einstein quote he just thought might be useful in this thread....
Was that literal?????????????????????//

Are you ok?????????????

Tell him hi for me! Maca and I wonder about him ALL THE TIME and are always saying "i'd love to ask RP's husband...." Just all the things you and Mono say about him and the relationship between you all, we figure he must be a very intelligent, caring and deep person!
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  #32  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:36 PM
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Well I am leaving for Florida in just a few hours. I do appologize, I can't read everyones post right now. I'm to raw.

I will say, the poly relationship isn't what caused Dragonfly to want to leave me. I did! I came here through pain to talk about what I felt this site was about... Poly relations. What I did not say was...

Me and DF have had a unstable marriage for quite some time. The reason being is because I refused to see that there was anything wrong with me. I wouldn't see that I was depressed and codependent. I just blamed it on everything else. My job, other people, even DF. It wasn't till Monday that with a huge talk with a 3rd party, that something long ago has broken me and I have not dealt with it or any of the other things. I just boxed it up and said I'm stronger then that, stay in the fucking box and don't come out. Well I didn't see the sludge was leaking out the bottom and I was standing in it and becoming poisioned.

I'm not using this as an excuse. I hurt DF. I've been hurting DF for a while now. And I don't deserve her or her love. I do love her. She has been that one bright shining star out of my entire life and I don't want to loose her. Well maybe after I go, seek some theripy, get help, and heal myself. Maybe she can find it in her to still love me. Maybe even still want me. But now I must go.

All I can do is hope and take 1 step at a time.

1st step: get some help!
Sweetie-that IS the first step. Read Maca's and my story. It's so possible to come a long way from that point. We've been there. Come back on and talk when you get where you are going.
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  #33  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:40 PM
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Ultimatums cannot work in these cases because they only have the potential to change how someone acts, not how they feel. Who wants to be with someone who is acting?? What it comes down to is the people offering the ultimatum simply need to make the hard decision for themselves. If you don't want to be there...get the fuck out.

I get it now...it is unfair to force someone to choose between two loves. It is ok to ask and present your reasons though. If the choice is not what you can be healthy in...leave; be an adult and simply fucking leave and find some one who wants to love the same way you do.

Each person has the right to change everything. If someone says it's done...it's done....no begging, whining or pleas to keep working at it. If some one needs something that precipitates that, then live with it...make your choices and accept the consequences...that's what grown ups do for fuck's sake.….and don't even pretend that you can have everything…get you head out of the clouds and be real.

If you are going to put an ultimatum out there be prepared to follow through. Don't tell me I'm going to bed without supper and then let me have something to eat because whatever I did, I'll fucking do it again because you don't follow through.
Don't know why this concept is so difficult? It's so OBVIOUSLY not going to get a good outcome when an adult chooses to act like a spoiled child.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:44 PM
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It's so OBVIOUSLY not going to get a good outcome when an adult chooses to act like a spoiled child.
Here's the thing..I'm not sure which one is acting more like a spoiled child. I find the issuing of ultimatums unworkable but not being poly I don't understand the other side as well. They both need to make a choice as far as I can tell.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:50 PM
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Mono-I agree. Maca and I talked aboutit last night. To me it's about owning your own issues.

If I say "I'm poly". You (general interested party) have a choice to make-do you want a poly person or no?

If I say "I'm poly so deal with it because you SAID you love me and if you REALLY DO then you have to deal with it." I'm acting like a child AND I'm full of shit. You CAN love someone and choose not to BE with them. I do and always will love a number of my exes. But loving them did NOTmake us compatible for any number of reasons.

That's why "coming out" to Maca was so hard. I finally had a way of expressing my inside self (did try over the years but failed over and over) and I KNEW that it was going to mean he had a choice to make-stay or go AND that I must RESPECT his choice and support it caringly-EVEN IF IT HURT ME.

If he left (leaves) it will break me in ways he has no way of understanding-because I can't find words to express them. But I love him-I don't want to hurt or destroy him and if leaving is what it takes for him to be whole-then I would have no moral choice but to support that decision.

Turn it around-if I am Mono and can't deal with someone who is poly-I have a choice stay or go. It's wrong of me to put MY issue on their shoulders and tell them to choose. I am the one with the issue about who they are. I need to take the bull by the horns and decide to go-RESPECTFULLY and with care and love in my actions.

Ok-off soapbox cause I could go forever and I HAVE to run on the treadmill today!
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  #36  
Old 11-03-2009, 07:57 PM
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To me it's about owning your own issues.

If I say "I'm poly". You (general interested party) have a choice to make-do you want a poly person or no?

If I say "I'm poly so deal with it because you SAID you love me and if you REALLY DO then you have to deal with it." I'm acting like a child AND I'm full of shit. You CAN love someone and choose not to BE with them.
Thank you for this. This needed to be said.

Now get on that tread mill!! Does Maca hold something out in front of you to keep you moving? Kinda like the horse and carrot thing
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:11 PM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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Not sure if any of this is directed towards my post, but what I mant by he chose me for better or worse is... I do expect him not to run in the opposite direction when and issue arises and he is unsure of what the issue was. I do expect him to see it to the otherside so there will be a healthy conclusion. Don't just give up. Don't hide behind an ultimatum. This is me... You've known me for years... don't start treating me like a stranger.

What I mean by see it to the other side is, figure out what the real issue is and make a decision on the real issue.

His issue is the fear of the unknown. He doesn't know what the dynamics of our lives will be. No one does. Not that he can't accept that I love another man. (He came to this last night) He fed into his fear and went for what he thought was an easy fix.

The fact is, we have grown closer and closer everyday. He loves how this whole thing has freed me... But it doesn't make it any less scary for him.

If we didnt have a commitment to each other to see it through, then we would all be heart broken at this very moment. but because we stayed we know what caused it.

Now the day may come when what he first said.. he can't accept that I am poly and that's the real issue then so be it. I don't believe in break ups being ugly and hurtful. there needs to be resolution and understanding. So that in the end everyone is left standing. It should be done with respect and love and concern for all parties involed. Don't get me wrong it will hurt like hell, but as least we can all respect how we handled it at the end of the day. That we did our best.
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  #38  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:17 PM
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Not sure if any of this is directed towards my post,
.

Your post just made things clearer in my own mind. I should have thanked you for that actually. Nothing negative, all good
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  #39  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:23 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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In every relationship I've ever had - be it friends, girlfriends, business partners, whatever - it has been understood very quickly what my policy is regarding ultimatums. It is very simple: They who issue the ultimatum, loses it. You hand me a "her or me" ultimatum, and it's her, no agonizing, no bullshit, you made the decidio for me the moment you issued the ultimatum.

I never issue them and I never will. I learned that lesson early in life.

NighDragon - I wish we could have not missed each other's texts last night. I am glad to hear you are taking steps and getting help, and that you have a support network in place. I also think that rash decisions made while everyone i hurting are seldom made correctly. Between myself and my friends, I was going to find you aplace and access to a vehicle so you would have a few days or weeks to think things through and so could she, before making a cross-country decision. I wish we could have discussed that option. I just met you, but I dig ya' man, something about you I just like, lol. We've talked twice and I think of you like I do my dearest friends - and man, we look out for each other big time. I hop all works out, PLEASE stay in touch, and know that you are one of the coolest people I know.
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  #40  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:32 PM
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I'm still feeling new to this forum and a bit timid about offering advice to others who probably have more experience than me. But, I can relate a bit to what you are going through Night Dragon.

Last year, I moved in with a man. When he and I met, he was sleeping with a woman. The three of us hooked up and she stayed lovers to us both. She's gay, in a relationship with a woman but likes to sleep with men. There is no romance, but a lot of care between her and her friends/lovers.

Very soon after I moved in with him, he crashed. No idea how to describe it. He'd sleep 16 hours + at a time. Stopped going to school. Couldn't help out with much of anything. Some days, couldn't form complete sentences. He'd stumble on a word and then get upset because it wouldn't come out making sense. He'd sit against the wall with a mean, evil expression on his face, as if he was ready to go out and murder someone. It scared me!!

He was needing the kind of support I was not able to give - especially since I'd moved to a completely new place, didn't have a support network of my own and had actually expected to lean on him a bit to settle in.

He would compare me to our lover, saying literally, "Why can't you be more like 'D'?". Well, hon, she's not in love with you, first of all. Second, she doesn't live with you. Third, you are not projecting major, intense emotional and psychological stuff onto her. And fourth, I do say the things that you are requesting of me, (the ones that she says), but you react completely differently to me when I say them.

So... all that to say... sometimes our needs just can't be met by some people. And often not because of the person, but because of the dynamics and triggers that come up between people.

Anyway, I think I'm going a bit OT, but I just wanted to say that on some level, I understand. And I hope things settle into a good place for all three of you.

roly
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