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  #31  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:40 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I want to comment on some salient points in other people's posts eventually, but find it irksome to multi-quote long posts on the ipod. For now, I give you the following:

While I am not a "liar" when it comes to my relationships, I am not 100% honest in many ways throughout everyday life. I am responsible for "little white lies", to lies of omission (for noble purposes only of course, LOL), and probably many other things that are so unconscious that I would have to start keeping a list... but every one of these could also be rationalized as "maintaining one's privacy".

Having said that, and taken ownership of the fact that I may not be perfect after all, I want to remind folks that IF YOU DON"T WANT PEOPLE (partners, kids, friends, enemies) UP IN YOUR BUSINESS, DON"T LEAVE YOUR BUSINESS WHERE PEOPLE CAN GET AT IT! YOU, only YOU are responsible for your own privacy. The same goes for stealing. IF YOU DON"T WANT YOUR SHIT STOLEN, LOCK YOUR FRIGGING SHIT UP! Geezus. Sometimes I feel like I'm teaching kindergarten.

This has been a PSA, free of charge. If you don't like it, I'll refund double your money.

ETA: When I get home, I'll split the discussion on privacy into a separate thread. Unless one of the other moderators wants to do it sooner.
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  #32  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:59 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overthinker View Post
It's not like I want to know every little detail about their relationship, believe me when I say that. I just don't want there to be secrets or boundaries crossed.
What people say is rather meaningless when what they do indicates something different. Obviously, you *do* want to know every little detail because you went snooping. I'll suggest ferreting out the root of your issue that led to that.

I'll hallucinate that you're quite insecure as you seem to be terrified that he might actually have a unique relationship with his OSO. Seriously, he can send pix and vids to her only if he also sends them to you? You can't live with the fact that he might do things with her that he doesn't with you? You want to make certain you get everything she does and then also what he would do with you without her?

I'll also hallucinate that he's struggling with this particular boundary because he wants to be able to have a relationship that isn't monitored by the warden at every turn. That he wants to have a relationship with her that doesn't require permission from mommy for every damn thing he wants to do.

These are my hallucinations and may be grossly inaccurate. I will offer that they're worth considering.
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  #33  
Old 06-10-2011, 04:20 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
What people say is rather meaningless when what they do indicates something different. Obviously, you *do* want to know every little detail because you went snooping. I'll suggest ferreting out the root of your issue that led to that..
And I suggest that there's a difference between wanting to know every little thing and knowing something dishonest is happening and needing to find out what it is so it can be handled.

I didn't want to know every detail of hubs relationships, I still don't. But when I know he's lying to me it undercuts everything about our relationship and you cannot have a good relationship when that's going on.

I think some of us are more empathetic and can feel when somebody's not being honest with us, or is doing something that THEY don't feel they should be doing (regardless of what we think about it). They project that out, and I for one can pick up on it right away. So it's not like we sit there thinking "I wonder what's going on, I'll go snoop." What's going on is hubs is acting wierd, his words aren't matching what feelings his projecting, something's odd and wrong and he won't tell me what it is, so I need to find out. (I did wait a LONG time before finally snooping because I didn't want to snoop, but as the days, weeks, months passed I was feeling more and more horrible, didn't trust anything that he said, and was building a resentment in him that was killing our relationship.)

If someone's being honest and forthright with their partner then they don't have to worry about being "found out". Only dishonest people have that worry. If my hubs went through my email I'd not be happy but only because I'd wonder what he's feeling or thinking that he couldn't talk to me about any issues he's having. I'd gladly show him my email, my texts, everything because I have nothing to hide. If showing him that makes him feel better and we can talk about what brought up those feelings, then I'm all for it. I don't need extra privacy because I am not hiding anything.

That said, now that we established that lying doesn't work-- he tells me more about what's going on, I can ask what I need and I give him and his GF as much privacy as they want because I am no longer being lied to.

For those that disagree I have a question.... let's say the OP didn't snoop. Go back to before the snooping happened. She has a feeling over many months that her husband and his GF aren't keeping their boundaries and she's talked to him directly about it and felt he was lying to her. So what should she do? Just go forth thinking her husband is lying and doing things he shouldn't and.... do what?
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  #34  
Old 06-10-2011, 04:59 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Exactly (Minxxa's last sentence).

Referring back to what I said about "if you don't want people to see your shit, don't put your shit where they can see it" - I really do think that keeping "incriminating" evidence where the people who you supposedly don't want to see it can find it is simply a passive-aggressive way of telling them something that you don't have the nerve to bring up in a straightforward manner.

Like Autumnal Tone suggested, it is possible that OP's Husband felt he was being treated as a child when it comes to his relationships with other people than his wife. The PROPER thing to do would be to say "Hon, I feel as if I'm being treated as a child when it comes to my relationships with other people besides yourself. Maybe it's time we re-evaluated some of our rules and boundaries? In particular, I'd like to be able to send sexy emails and texts to her without having to check with you first. You could do the same with your OSO, etc. etc."

But not "I'm sick of being beholden to my wife. She is not the boss of me. I'm just gonna do whatever the fuck I want. I'm a grown man. If she finds out and doesn't like it, I'll just bitch at her for invading my privacy. Boo-yah."

Srsly, nao. Is this REALLY "easier said than done"?
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  #35  
Old 06-10-2011, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
I throw my 2 cents in with "I'd rather be a snooper than a liar". This is not a mono vs. poly issue. Plenty of times I have either been or seen a situation where one person does something, another person busts them by "snooping", and suddenly it's all the person who snooped's fault because they "invaded privacy". If you use "privacy" as an excuse to be dishonest, then expect to reap what you sow.
I personally find the (occasional) "crimes" one commits in the spirit of need and self-gratification to be far less troublesome than the premeditated crimes one commits in the spirit of suspicion, mistrust, jealousy and sense of entitlement.

In the first case, the involved parties can re-visit the terms, renegotiate and forge solutions together. The affected party may have gotten hurt but not personally violated.

In the second, instance, you are violating someone's personal sense of space, liberty and safety in the relationship, all in the name of "If you don't TELL me what I want to know freely, I'm going to take the choice away from you." It wrongly sets someone up as righteous authoritarian and someone up as guilty subordinate.

An equal, even-handed, logical discussion can not take place in that dynamic.
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  #36  
Old 06-10-2011, 06:41 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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This still all gets back to being honest as soon as one can that a boundary is not working any more.

Sometimes boundaries get broken in order to realize they aren't working any more. So, pick yourself up and fix it... let by gones be by gones. None of us are perfect in this process of being up standing poly citizens. We all do shit that we realize after was a mistake when it comes to consensually attempting to achieve poly relationship dynamics.

Shit happens. Deal with it as soon as you can and move on... leaving it to stew and creating all kinds of drama around it just makes it worse and doesn't do anyone any favours I think.

I still think saying to your hubby OP, "hey hun, this boundary we have around pics and vids isn't working, because I don't want to break it and I'm sure you don't either, I think we should change it." Set a good example of what you expect from him and he likely will know to be up front next time because he knows what it feels like when you were (building empathetic responses). Let him save face this time and move on.... if he does it again, then bring it up.
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  #37  
Old 06-10-2011, 09:41 PM
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Excellent thread guys. Some really insightful discussion.

This is the crux of it for me: quoting Overthinker

"There have been some stressful things about our situation and I think if he found out that I had been snooping I think he would just throw in the towel and say he is just done with the relationships; which is something I don't want to have happen."

...like I said "tip of the iceberg" and Grounded Spirit (such wisdom) expanded.

OT has a very precariously balanced relationship that only seems to be able to function if her husband is allowed to lie and not be challenged over it for fear of the ramifications.

I would go as far as to say that you shouldn't be in a relationship under these conditions. I loved the way Sour Girl and Neon put it. What's really important here: that someone who isn't trust worthy is allowed his privacy or that a party in a committed relationship feels safe, loved and important enough to be honest about what she has done and how she feels without the relationship ending?
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  #38  
Old 06-10-2011, 10:13 PM
Overthinker Overthinker is offline
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Wow, I really wasn't expected so many diverse responses in such a small amount of time. I thank everyone for their opinions. I haven't done anything about it yet and life just has gone on as normal yesterday and today. I am still debating on just letting it go or not. The fact that he sent the video to her does not bother me at all. And for the record it is something that he would normally send to me as well. I acknowledge that they have a very different relationship than he and I do, to a point that some times the differences are somewhat comical and ironic (not in bad ways). Just as much as I acknowledge that my relationship with my bf is very different that mine with my husband. Oh the perks of poly .

This was a boundary that we could have easily slid out of but we hadn't....yet. We have been having tons of conversations lately resulting in eliminating boundaries to let the other relationships evolve into whatever they may be; which both of us want I may add. What irks me the most is that when I did ask him if we still were following this particular boundary he was very clear to me that I needed to make sure I let him know if and when I sent anything to my bf, but then he did the exact opposite and couldn't even tell me that he broke the boundary. As many posters have said, boundaries can't be one sided, they have to be agreed upon by those making the boundaries.

I am leaning towards just letting this one go but wonder if this is just leaving the door open for more dishonesty in the future. All in all, a video is a very minor thing in the whole scheme of things.
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  #39  
Old 06-10-2011, 10:51 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
I would go as far as to say that you shouldn't be in a relationship under these conditions. I loved the way Sour Girl and Neon put it. What's really important here: that someone who isn't trust worthy is allowed his privacy or that a party in a committed relationship feels safe, loved and important enough to be honest about what she has done and how she feels without the relationship ending?
Sour Girl and I think exactly alike. It's eerie.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 06-10-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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  #40  
Old 06-10-2011, 10:57 PM
Overthinker Overthinker is offline
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One thing that I do want to make clear is that when I said he would want to end the relationships it would be only the ones outside our marraige. I am not afraid of him wanting to end our marraige.
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