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Old 06-08-2011, 01:44 AM
Tinyblu Tinyblu is offline
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Default So... we talked...

and I feel a lot better. I laid out the boundaries I discussed in the Meltdown thread, and he was really patient and attentive.

One thing he assured me is that he isn't going anywhere which is my biggest fear. He understands that both women involved are new to this, and since I am the "baby" of the bunch (being the youngest of the three), that I may need more time.

He was again deeply apologetic about placing us both in that situation, and admitted his lack of judgement and selfishness in how he handled it and promised me that he would never place me in that environment again.

He encouraged me to be totally honest and not be afraid to speak up even if I am afraid of how my feelings will be received. I think that is the most important lesson learned for me... I just need to know when to put the brakes on if I feel like things are moving too fast.

We are going to spend some more one on one time together since everything is so new. I am sure he is going to spend one on one time with his OSO as well so he can develop both relationships, and I am OK with that.

As for me ever being ok with the group thing... I'm not sure yet. I know that at this point I wouldn't want to be in the same bed with him and his OSO any time in the near future. Maybe I could grow into some playtime with others, but I won't know that until I am in the situation.

One thing I am glad to hear is that others on this forum don't necessarily do the group thing and have successful relationships. In a past conversation, he had indicated that it was important to him that his SO's be into group sex or be bisexual. At this point, I am not sure if I'm either, and I don't want that to effect our relationship (will he make me less of a priority if I'm not kinky enough)???

I must admit that I am having a lot thrown at me in the little over a month since I have accepted this lifestyle, but I am willing to do two things: 1) Continue to explore what works / not works for me and 2) Communicate openly about those things. Hopefully, things will continue to work out.

So... how long does it take to get used to all this?
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:00 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by Tinyblu View Post
He understands that both women involved are new to this, and since I am the "baby" of the bunch (being the youngest of the three), that I may need more time.
More time for what? To get used to the idea of a threesome or moresome with his other gf? This guy is unbelievable! How about just developing the relationship that just the two of you have and see how it goes organically? You should never feel pressured to do anything with his other chick, even if it's just having coffee together -- and especially if he expects you all get in the sack. I think someone said this earlier in your other thread: he does not know what poly is.

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Originally Posted by Tinyblu View Post
In a past conversation, he had indicated that it was important to him that his SO's be into group sex or be bisexual. At this point, I am not sure if I'm either, and I don't want that to effect our relationship (will he make me less of a priority if I'm not kinky enough)???
Well, it will affect the relationship if you get into fucking and sucking other women just for him when that's not really who you are. It is going to make you his toy and a patsy, to go along with that if it isn't really your nature and is not a genuine desire for you at the time. It's one thing if you choose to explore that -- in your own time and with people you choose -- but it shouldn't be up to him.

Why would you be afraid of losing this relationship if that is the constraints he is putting on you? I think you'd be better off without him and this kind of pressure. It's like you can't enjoy the relationship with the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. He is just waiting, waiting, waiting for you to do his girlfriend to get his rocks off -- that is so cheap and gross, and would be at the expense of who you are. You wanna be kinky? Be kinky for you -- doing whatever kink (there are lots of varieties) turns YOU on, and and at the level YOU wish to engage - if your kink isn't the kind of kink he wants, why should you twist yourself like a pretzel to be something you are not? He's making it all about sex, or group sex (and that is not polyamory) -- I'm not getting a sense of anything loving and caring coming from this dude. Sorry, but I feel like I want to shake some sense into you.

PS - you may want to read about Vees (do a search here) to see that three people can be involved in a poly relationship but not all of them are sexual with each other.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 06-08-2011 at 04:12 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2011, 05:40 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Cough..ha ha, I am probably not the only one who thinks men are behind women in maturity by at least a decade, making him the youngest one? :|

No, that's not quite a blanket statement I am making, but when somebody claims that you need more time than the average person to figure it out because you're younger than they are...I'll make it. I DO admit though I was going to ask how old you were, as I was wondering if it is easier to state boundaries once a person gets in their 30s, I know it was for me.

I am dating somebody that would like me to do X. I said on our third date before things got physical that I did NOT like X, before I found out he would really like me to X...heh. So with discussion, not doing X is not a dealbreaker for him, and I am willing to try, but have been clear if X is really just not for me, then that is how it is. I had a few discussions to make sure that the relationship didn't need this to keep going on, because if it was necessary, I wasn't interested in the stress, or in stressing him about it.

Sure, a third party is not involved in X but...truthfully (again, if I were in your shoes...although I feel I've been trying to get in your shoes an awful lot so far!) I would probably say. I do NOT want to have sex with your girlfriend now. I don't know I'll ever want to have a threesome with you again. (I do believe you said you had with some other woman and him - perhaps I am recalling it incorrectly). Do you still want to be with me? And me personally, even if I thought I might be interested in his beautiful gf, I would still say this to him, because...well, I don't trust men that much (especially if they have sent me on an emotional ride), so I would hedge (...or lie) to get the truth, because I'd rather know sooner than later.

If the answer was no - fuck him, really. I happen to want to be in a relationship with a person for what they and I can have, and adding extra or kinky things in should be a bonus for us, not a requirement. (Now I would state there were different "rules" about expectations if you had met him looking for a D/s relationship or something, but it sounds like you were just dating like regular old folks!)

I will say it takes much less time to get USED to things when the things we are trying to get used to are expected. I don't think I'd get used to dating somebody, finding out they expected I would start having threesomes with their gf without asking me if I was interested. I don't like surprises. I like to know what a person wants and expects out of a relationship early on - in monogamy I understand a person might be too embarrassed to be upfront about their wants and needs, but I do have higher expectation in a poly relationship, admittedly. Kinks need to be met? Let me know ASAP so I can decide if I am interested.

If you are feeling any trepidation, I would surely go with the "take me as I am" route. If he doesn't want you as you are, you are probably (like TOTALLY probably) better off without him.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:41 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Originally Posted by Tinyblu View Post
............

As for me ever being ok with the group thing... I'm not sure yet. I know that at this point I wouldn't want to be in the same bed with him and his OSO any time in the near future. Maybe I could grow into some playtime with others, but I won't know that until I am in the situation................

One thing I am glad to hear is that others on this forum don't necessarily do the group thing and have successful relationships. In a past conversation, he had indicated that it was important to him that his SO's be into group sex or be bisexual. At this point, I am not sure if I'm either, and I don't want that to effect our relationship (will he make me less of a priority if I'm not kinky enough)???

Hey Tiny,

First off, I wouldn't let this whole thing get blown out of proportion. It's ONLY sex !

However, these ARE issues that have to get discovered and worked through in any relationship with any duration (or hope of). But just treat it like any of the other thousand things that have to get discovered and worked through.

It does however illustrate why I'm one who loudly recommends exploring sexual compatibility at the earliest practical point in relationships. Discovering incompatibilities will either force you to develop your negotiation skills or uncover deal-breakers. Both are an important things in the long run.

You may or may not discover that you can find stimulating pieces of group sex. You won't know until you try it a couple times. Same thing with bisexuality (for most people). Again - I reiterate "It's ONLY sex!" And yea, it's uncomfortable at first like anything new that we've been conditioned is over the edge. But that discomfort may pass - or not.

The one thing I will mention just in case it hasn't registered as very important to you is that there (in general) is a gender difference in a majority of cases. From what I've seen (and read) men (overall) are more attracted to visual and audio stimuli - i.e. the majority of porn users being male. There's some evolutionary genetic predisposition involved there. Accept the science part at least. Then figure out how it can be dealth with best.
Females (generally) place more value (and are more comfortable) in the intimate, private (at least semi) sexual settings. Finding that group activity actually has an intimate part is a different discovery - not one that all people make.

Also I might mention that his need for group activity will very likely vary - and change over time. Even that gets old after awhile

Don't blow this out of proportion - all should be fine

GS
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:11 AM
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Erosa Erosa is offline
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I am glad that you were able to talk this out with him.

It sounds like you set forth your limits for the time being in this relationship and now the only thing will be sticking to your guns (and him to his word).

As far as if he will love you less if your a "not kinky enough"... I don't think real love works that way.

One thing to consider though is that if he truly is looking for several women to have group sex with, especially if he made this clear early on, then that is something that he probably places high priority on and is not likely to give up on.

So some good questions to ask about that are;

1. Even if I never am okay with group sex, am I okay that HE will be having group sex that excludes me?

2. If I am not bisexual at all, and he specifically wants Bisexual women, are we really compatible?

3. What if he DOES move away from me emotional because of this? If he still worth my time if my sexual desires are going to make me a lower priority?


Not saying any or all of this applys. But I would keep it in mind.
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:42 PM
Tinyblu Tinyblu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
Cough..ha ha, I am probably not the only one who thinks men are behind women in maturity by at least a decade, making him the youngest one? :|

No, that's not quite a blanket statement I am making, but when somebody claims that you need more time than the average person to figure it out because you're younger than they are...I'll make it. I DO admit though I was going to ask how old you were, as I was wondering if it is easier to state boundaries once a person gets in their 30s, I know it was for me.

I am dating somebody that would like me to do X. I said on our third date before things got physical that I did NOT like X, before I found out he would really like me to X...heh. So with discussion, not doing X is not a dealbreaker for him, and I am willing to try, but have been clear if X is really just not for me, then that is how it is. I had a few discussions to make sure that the relationship didn't need this to keep going on, because if it was necessary, I wasn't interested in the stress, or in stressing him about it.

Sure, a third party is not involved in X but...truthfully (again, if I were in your shoes...although I feel I've been trying to get in your shoes an awful lot so far!) I would probably say. I do NOT want to have sex with your girlfriend now. I don't know I'll ever want to have a threesome with you again. (I do believe you said you had with some other woman and him - perhaps I am recalling it incorrectly). Do you still want to be with me? And me personally, even if I thought I might be interested in his beautiful gf, I would still say this to him, because...well, I don't trust men that much (especially if they have sent me on an emotional ride), so I would hedge (...or lie) to get the truth, because I'd rather know sooner than later.

If the answer was no - fuck him, really. I happen to want to be in a relationship with a person for what they and I can have, and adding extra or kinky things in should be a bonus for us, not a requirement. (Now I would state there were different "rules" about expectations if you had met him looking for a D/s relationship or something, but it sounds like you were just dating like regular old folks!)

I will say it takes much less time to get USED to things when the things we are trying to get used to are expected. I don't think I'd get used to dating somebody, finding out they expected I would start having threesomes with their gf without asking me if I was interested. I don't like surprises. I like to know what a person wants and expects out of a relationship early on - in monogamy I understand a person might be too embarrassed to be upfront about their wants and needs, but I do have higher expectation in a poly relationship, admittedly. Kinks need to be met? Let me know ASAP so I can decide if I am interested.

If you are feeling any trepidation, I would surely go with the "take me as I am" route. If he doesn't want you as you are, you are probably (like TOTALLY probably) better off without him.

EXCELLENT Advice here! For the record, I am in my mid 30's, but have been in mono relationships all my life. Even in those I had trouble really voicing my needs and "went along for the ride". I see in this situation that I have to be absolutely up front.

So far, I have let him know that threesomes aren't for me, but have yet to ask if that's a deal breaker. I think I want to talk to him face to face about that. As for his OSO, I get the feeling that she may not be as comfortable as she SAYS she is with the whole thing, but I can't put words in her mouth.

I think that we both really like the guy and we don't want to disappoint him. However, I don't want to do something that makes me uncomfortable to make him happy. As I understand it, the whole premise of poly is that ALL parties involved are happy.

I have only been at this a little over a month, so I have a lot to learn, but hearing from the more experienced definitely helps. Thanks to all for the input.
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Tinyblu Tinyblu is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
More time for what? To get used to the idea of a threesome or moresome with his other gf? This guy is unbelievable! How about just developing the relationship that just the two of you have and see how it goes organically? You should never feel pressured to do anything with his other chick, even if it's just having coffee together -- and especially if he expects you all get in the sack. I think someone said this earlier in your other thread: he does not know what poly is.

Well, it will affect the relationship if you get into fucking and sucking other women just for him when that's not really who you are. It is going to make you his toy and a patsy, to go along with that if it isn't really your nature and is not a genuine desire for you at the time. It's one thing if you choose to explore that -- in your own time and with people you choose -- but it shouldn't be up to him.

Why would you be afraid of losing this relationship if that is the constraints he is putting on you? I think you'd be better off without him and this kind of pressure. It's like you can't enjoy the relationship with the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head. He is just waiting, waiting, waiting for you to do his girlfriend to get his rocks off -- that is so cheap and gross, and would be at the expense of who you are. You wanna be kinky? Be kinky for you -- doing whatever kink (there are lots of varieties) turns YOU on, and and at the level YOU wish to engage - if your kink isn't the kind of kink he wants, why should you twist yourself like a pretzel to be something you are not? He's making it all about sex, or group sex (and that is not polyamory) -- I'm not getting a sense of anything loving and caring coming from this dude. Sorry, but I feel like I want to shake some sense into you.

PS - you may want to read about Vees (do a search here) to see that three people can be involved in a poly relationship but not all of them are sexual with each other.


Tough love... I LOVE IT!!!

You may be right. I think I need to do a better job of putting my foot down about what I will and will not do then decide if it's a deal breaker. If it is, it will hurt like hell, but at least I know and can semi move away from this without being hurt too badly.

As for more time... I need more time to get used to the whole poly thing. This is my first run at this and I feel a little rushed. He has agreed to slow down and just spend more time with me and his OSO one-on-one. He admitted that he was taking things too fast.

I really think I just gotta get used to opening my mouth and sticking to my guns without fear of rejection or abandonment. I think if I really become brutally honest during our one-on-one time, things MAY get better.

Keep shaking me NYCindie!!! I need it!!!
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:45 AM
PolyInNJ PolyInNJ is offline
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I just read over your situation - and my mind is kind of boggled here. A bit of background so you can understand the viewpoint that I am coming from: I am fairly new to poly myself, but have known for the past few years that I was likely wired this way. A couple of points I wanted to bring up:

* When I was newly single, a "friend" and I started to become a little bit more romantically involved. It was more of a "friends with benefits" situation than anything else. We loosely discussed the possibility of a threesome. I said that I would talk about it, but I wasn't sure if it was an option for me. The next thing I knew, he showed up at my front door with another woman in tow... to make a long story short, it was a very uncomfortable evening, and I now no longer talk to him. He was incredibly disrespectful of me, and what I would or wouldn't be willing to do, and I don't need people like him in my life.

* I have been involved with a wonderful man since October. His wife is wonderful as well, and has welcomed me as a member of the family. I am definitely -not- bi, so any love I feel for her is purely sister-love, and a commonality that we are both in love with the same man. He would never.. EVER.. put me in a situation like you are talking about. While I am obviously not supplanting his wife, and I guess if you had to put it into "terms" I'm his secondary - but we really don't like to talk in terms - but one of our rules and also a rule that he lives by by his wife is an acknowledgement that we are sexually active.. .and that he is sexually active with his wife... but we don't TALK about it... and we certainly are not in the same room while it's going on with the other person. In fact, he is also a long distance relationship, and I stay in a hotel with him while I'm down there, just so his wife doesn't have to witness any of it.

It's common courtesy.

The fact that he did not discuss this with you before hand and just sprung it on you is sending all sorts of red flags in my direction, and really reminded me of the first situation that I outlined for you. It sounds like he's the type of guy who is a bit of a control freak. More importantly, it's critical that YOU continue to keep an open dialogue with him.

I know that you don't want to be rejected or alone, but it's not worth YOUR self worth to be with a guy who is not going to really listen to you, or pat you on the head and say "It's okay, Kid. You're young. You'll come around to this poly thing some day".

To reiterate what others have said... Poly does not equal Threesomes, swinging, etc by default. It CAN be that way, but there is no set defined ruleset of what is the "right way to be poly", and it varies not only couple by couple, but person by person. The MOST important thing is to be honest and open.

Okay - time to put the soap box away for the night.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2011, 06:25 PM
Tinyblu Tinyblu is offline
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I didn't get a soapbox at all... in fact, I totally get what you are saying.

As time goes on, I am starting to realize that he probably is a little selfish. He obviously has an "ideal" (i.e. Hugh Hefner), and I am realizing that may not be what works for me.

Since everything is SO new, I am taking the lessons as they come. So far, we openly discussed my discomfort with the whole threesome thing (and I can pretty much deduct that he has had similar conversations with his OSO), and I pretty much stated that if this was a deal breaker for him, that we probably shouldn't advance the relationship.

After the "irritation" incident (see my Poly Double Standard thread), and what seemed to be a less than favorable conversation he had with his OSO (also referenced in the other thread--which incidentally appears to be a "test" of some sort for him--I don't think she's as into the lifestyle as she says she is, but that could be my jealousy talking), He made the "decision" that he would see us separately and not try the group thing again. He also backed off on the whole "I need you to love me...." pressure. I think part of this was due to the fact that I kept telling him to slow down and let things just happen. From my perspective, if it's meant for me to love him, I will, but a few weeks HARDLY is enough time to develop these types of feelings....

I still take issue with the fact that he's calling most of the shots. His rhetoric is even selfish (I pointed out that he uses the word "I" a lot), but it hasn't gotten painful yet, so I'm trying to roll with it for now.

I have discovered that I have probably been poly-minded for a while but trying to live up to everyone else's mono expectations of me and feeling trapped the entire time. Now that I am embracing the lifestyle, I am finding that I may be open to seeing more than one man at one time (a first for me) and being totally open and honest about it. My theory is that men tend to have a little more issue with their ladies being poly than the other way around.

I hear ya... I am getting some more red flags which I plan to address when we meet again face to face. I don't fear losing him as much anymore if he is selfish. True poly to me seems to be more about being selfless and loving fully. If I continue to see that his agenda is more important than my feelings, I will back off.

Thanks!!
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