New and Scared

[just3]

I think its ok to be scared. In my house my hubs and I talked for months before we decided to actually add someone in our relationship.
To kind of help you here..Im also a wife who loved my hubs best friend. My now ex bf and hubs were best friends for many many years before I came along. So maybe I can help you from the other side of the coin that your not seeing..
My hubs is a wonderful man who I love more than life itself. I would trade him for all the chocolate in the world(and I love me some chocolate ) My hubs provides me with more love than I can explain. A wonderful father to our 2 sometimes crazy boys. (ok mostly crazy) When we embarked on this journey I picked his friend. Because not only would I have someone I loved but it would also be someone he related to. Could hang out with. And be comfortable around. It really isnt all about the sex. I wil lsay it was super hard for me to tell my hubby that I loved someone else too. But honesty is the best way to go no matter how hard it is. If anything after 12 years of marriage. I love him more than ever. We embarked on a journey with my now ex bf and I will say our relationship is better for it. I feel more open with hubby. The trust level.. just wow. There is a stronger bond between my hubs and I.
My hubs is my rock. My bf was the one who made me laugh instead of cry.
When my hubs couldnt be there for me while he worked etc. my bf was. I never felt alone to face anything.
Some nights when hubby was to tired from work and I needed...well sex honestly. I received that from bf. You know its always nice to have different perspectives on decisions etc...Well I had 2 that I trusted. So I could ask both.
My hubs had a friend he could trust to take care of me. My hubs had someone who could help him out when he was just to dang worn out. My hubs had time to do some of his hobbies while I visited with bf. Because honestly hubs hobby is not mine and to me its like understanding Chinese. which I dont lol.
We both benefited from this relationship more than words can supply. But communication is the key. Talk about it. Sit down and say look. Im really not comfortable with this can we talk about it for awhile. This is not something you just jump into. My hubs and I have been married 12 years. All mono. Its only recently we began poly. I have learned a lot just reading posts on here. And I think if your that uncomfortable with the situation than you shouldnt do that. She needs to understand your point of view and you need to listen to hers. Because it may not be as bad as you think. Dont think its shes plotting against you. But she should respect your feelings in the matter. I would have never done anything if hubs wasnt on board.
Chris

[River]

Originally Posted by Flower

My future is a white wall of nothing now...

This does seem like quite a severe reaction. Much pain. Much fear.

Are you able to find tenderness toward yourself, now that you need it so?

Can you deepen your breath? Let the pain go?

Breathe now, breathe often and deeply. Explore the depths of the breath. Feel and know breathing.

[Bangel]

River,
Thank you for your words of incouragement and I will start to think of myself. It has been a long time since I have done so. I am the type of person that will usually put others infront of myself. Their happiness is my happiness but along the way I have lost my happiness if that makes sense. There was a long conversation last night with the friend and I expressed my anger but not in a screaming and I hate you way. I told him that I was angery at him for wanting this and I had been thinking that maybe our friendship was over. I also told him that he has been a great friend to both me and my wife so I was torn in to different directions. I know the wife has been missing the three of us together so I am making an effort to try to rebuild this dynamic. Also found out that he is unsure of this arrangment as well. Kind of made me feel a little better knowing I am not the only one who is having issues with this. The wife says she sees a wonderful life with all of us together but him and I are not sure. I guess it is good that we are all talking right now. I wish my wife could explain what she sees and how she views it all working out but she cannot explain it. Is this normal to only go by a feeling and not have some sort of plan? I am one of those everything has a manual or directions to follow kinda of guy. I have been reading alot of threads with Mono/Poly relationships and it seems that all have had similar issues. I guess what it comes down to is if all are not for it should we try it because she wants it? I love her so much that I do want her to be happy but the Mono in me wishes it was just me that could satisfy her. Unrealistic I know because in reality one person does not give you everything you need. Please keep comenting and I will take all advice and suggestions.

[Bangel]

Just3,
thank you for your input, it is nice to read about others issues and relationship successes. We still need to talk about alot of things and it will probably take me awhile to be comfortable with this if we decide to do it. I know alot of my issues are insecurity, fear and jealousy. I do find it interesting that I do not have any issue with the emotional attachment between the two, actually I perfer it, I care for them so I would like them to care for each other. My biggest issue is with the physical, just thinking of them touching each other gives me anxiety. This is the one thing they have both said they would like. To be able to show affection towards each other, al the way to sex if they so choose. I wish I did not have such feeling of fear and jealousy. How do you get past this? Thank you for sharing your story with me every little bit helps and I seem to take something away from all of you in this.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by Bangel

My biggest issue is with the physical, just thinking of them touching each other gives me anxiety. This is the one thing they have both said they would like. To be able to show affection towards each other, all the way to sex if they so choose. I wish I did not have such feeling of fear and jealousy. How do you get past this? Thank you for sharing your story with me every little bit helps and I seem to take something away from all of you in this.

First of all, I must say it is refreshing to read that you would rather your wife have an emotional connection than anything else. It has become a pet peeve of mine when I see so many husbands "pimping out" their wives, so to speak, but freak out when feelings develop. Human beings have feelings, and intimacy is so much more than the physical. Anyway, back to you...

Regarding the quote I included above, I don't know if this will help you, but maybe it will. I have come to learn that things have meaning to us when we give them meaning. Sex, in and of itself, doesn't mean anything, unless we tell ourselves it does. So, if we believe that it proves our partner loves us if they only have sex with us, or something like that, we have attached meaning to a physical act. A belief is just a belief and sex is just a physical activity. So, it helps to look at those beliefs and the meanings we give things and see if we can reframe them or make adjustments in our views.

Now, I think that when two people get together and share themselves sexually, it can be just some physical fun or it can be a way to connect emotionally and solidify a relationship. Either way, I've always considered sex as a form of communication.

That's right, it's simply a way to communicate. It is two (or more - ha!) people coming together and expressing themselves through their bodies and touch. It is an interaction through which we can get to know someone else on a level that doesn't need intellectualizing or verbal language. Just another way to connect with someone. Sometimes there is more of an emotional connection, and other times, it's more physical. Remember, sex doesn't have meaning beyond what we will ascribe to it.

Does that help in any way?

[Bangel]

NYCINDIE,
You are right that for me sex has alot of meaning to me, it is when you are at your most vulnerable and most intimate. It is reaching for that ultimate connection with some one that is very speacial to you. I believe that if sex had no meaning then why were clothes and everyone would be having sex in the streets and who you have sex with would not matter. That is not how it is we choose the poeple we slept with because of a connection to those people. Not saying one night stands do not happen or that I myself have not had a few in my day, but for the most part sex does have meaning specially with emotional connection. Yes sex can just be an act but not always. I will try to think of sex with less meaning to it and see if that helps me.

I cannot belive how honest and helpful you all are. You all share your lives with such conviction. It is refreshing to talk to people with such different views on life. Thank you all for your help and advice and please keep it coming.

[River]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Remember, sex doesn't have meaning beyond what we will ascribe to it.

I think this (quoted) statement is partially, even largely or significantly true. However, I think it goes too far. Much too far.

What we call "meaning" (and there are various meanings to "meaning," but I'm talking about the two main ones) is often implicit in activitites and acts as well as things which are, in some sense, outside of language. Part of the "meaning" in a touch or a kiss, or whatever, is context dependent in cultural-historical terms, and so on, but then there is the animal body itself, our human bodies, and they are pulsating with meaning all their own, independent of our conceptualizations and mental-emotional habits or conditionings.

Sex, when it is not rape, when it is voluntary and mutually desired, is intrinsically intimate. There's no getting around that. One can cut themselves off, to varying degrees, to the conscious awareness of this fact, but it is still so. Some of that experience and intimacy dwells in our thoughts and ideas about it, while some of it is simply what is, independent of our language or notions. Indeed, the very apparent gap between the conditioned and the pre- or un-conditioned and the world of thought and language, is part of the pleasure and joy of sexual communion. Sex, like dancing or swimming or skating..., is a non-verbal activity. But there is meaning in any of these activities which is intrinsic ... and yet which is ever so difficult to speak, to talk about.

We do not make all meaning up, and it isn't all a cultural artifact or arbitrary rendition. This we realize when we get under langauge, into our bodies -- as (for example) when making love.

[River]

The meaning of meaning.

There are two primary conventional meanings of the word meaning. They are:

1.
what is intended to be, or actually is, expressed or indicated; signification; import: the three meanings of a word.

2.
the end, purpose, or significance of something: What is the meaning of life? what is the meaning of this intrusion?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meaning

There are other possible meanings to meaning, including one that marries these two together.

If things in the world, independent of language, had no prior meaning, ultimately all meaning would not be possible. Everything would be or become meaningless -- in this third sense of the term.

[nycindie]

I did not mean to imply that sex is not important or intimate. It is both!

My point was that we often ascribe the act with a certain meaning, which is often wrapped around our beliefs, and this can lead to interpretation.

As an example of what I'm trying to say, let's look at someone who believes that sex should only take place between two people who love each other. Therefore, when sex happens, the act helps confirm to them that their partner loves them. Sex, to this person, has grown to mean love. That can lead to the interpretation that if their partner has sex with someone else, they don't love them anymore. Yet we all know that love can happen without sex and sex can happen without love.

Another belief: that romantic and sexual relationships only have value if monogamous. Therefore, to that person, the idea of a romantic, sexual partnership means monogamy. A variant on that is the belief that when people are sexual and committed to each other, they "belong to" each other, a sort of ownership.

If a partner wishes to cultivate romance with someone else, or have sex with someone else, or both, then these meanings that have been given to their current relationship can lead to interpret the partner's desires or actions as meaning the relationship has less value to them, or it means that they have been "lost" somehow and no longer belong to them.

If one is operating out of both these beliefs, it is easy to feel slighted, unloved, left behind, betrayed, and all that painful stuff when a partner says, "I want a romantic sexual relationship with someone else outside of our relationship." Jealousy often sits on top of other deeper feelings, but there tends to be an element of feeling something that was yours was taken from you. But these are all mostly mental constructs.

Hence, my assertion that sex holds whatever meaning we give it. I thought maybe that would be helpful to the OP in looking at the feelings coming up at the idea of his partner being sexually involved with someone else. It's always good to examine our beliefs and the meanings we give things in our lives. Not saying it is wrong to do that, but that through awareness we can deconstruct how we've set things up in our minds and find ways to handle the impact of issues that bump up against these beliefs and values we've created for ourselves.

Maybe what I've written here makes my point more clear?

[Carma]

Originally Posted by Bangel

Carma,
Was your husband always so willing to let you have this freedom or did he have issues with it? If he did how did you overcome these issues? I have never really been a secure person to begin with and right now even less so...

I find myself comparing me to him wondering if he is better than me, is he a better fit for her. I guess these are all normal concerns or feelings but I have got to tell you I don't like them at all. I do want her to be happy, her happiness is my happiness. I am worried about my happiness in this. I know my friend will be happy because he has no one else. I have watched this relationship grow infront of my eyes even when they did not know what was happening, and I was jealous of it then when they said it was nothing and I was just over reacting. I am just not sure if I am strong enough to do this. Where does the strength come from to over come all these negative emotions?

Bangel,
No, he struggled and he still does. He was the one who suggested opening the marriage. He decided it was never going to resolve itself if I had to act like it was over, act like my feelings were gone... it would just be faking, and he knew he would still be suspicious all the time.

He got really crazy for awhile and started secretly recording my bf and I when we would meet up at my house during the day. He wanted to know if we were plotting against him, planning to run off together.
When I found the recorder, I was furious. I had been 100% honest with him (the only good thing about it I guess was the tapes confirmed that!) and he still had major trust issues.

And the comparisons! That was really rough in the beginning. I never compared the two of them, but my husband really did. I do know he never wavered in his faith that no one could love me like he (my husband) does. Still, he felt inadequate in many ways and it really threw him for a loop.

What helped? We went to a great counselor -- poly was new to her but she was familiar with the 60's and 70's "open marriage" concept -- and she worked with my husband one-on-one as well. He needed that sooooo much! Like you, he has been insecure most of his life. Crazy too, since he is a truly beautiful human being, inside and out. She helped boost his confidence greatly, strengthened his sense of self, and validated his feelings about poly -- especially the negative ones he didn't want to vent to me.

Our hope is that the affair with my bf will run its course until he is ready to find a full-time girlfriend and begin a traditional relationship someday. Right now he is in a transitional mode. Eventually he will move on and my husband and I will most likely go back to a monogamous marriage. Poly is really hard but for us it was better than the alternatives.

I'm so glad you have found this forum. It helped us immensely and there are some terrific people here who have walked in similar shoes. Personally, I think they are heroes!