New and Scared

Hello all,

I'm new to this whole thing and frightened to no end. My wife of 4 years, Brynn, has recently told me that she is in love with my best friend, Brody, who lives upstairs from us. And he is in love with her. I am a mono person, so this is very hard for me. Brynn would like to start to have a relationship with him and keep our marriage at the same time.

I am having all the normal feelings of fear, being jealous, anger, aloneness, and asking if I am enough for her. I will admit I have not made things easy for any of us. I have had issues with controlling my emotions of late, which has put stain on our marriage.

I do not want this, but she keeps telling me this will be the best for all of us. I have not spoken to Brody in a week because I feel that if he was my friend he would have stepped away. Maybe my emotions getting the best of me again. I am scared that my marriage is falling apart. I love Brynn with all my heart. To think of her with another man breaks it even more. I am looking for advice and counseling. I do not want to lose her, nor do I want to share her with someone else. Please help!!!

Hi,

My husband and I found ourselves in a similar situation. We tried fighting my feelings for several years. Finally we agreed to open our marriage to his best friend last October. It's had its grueling moments, and there were times we both thought we would divorce. But as of today, it's working out very well. Some of the initial emotional shock has worn off and we feel very stable in our marriage. I have had the chance to love someone who grew to mean so much to me, while keeping our marriage and our family intact. The fact that my husband loved me enough to let this be possible -- wow, it makes me love him all the more!

The beginning is H-A-R-D. There are so many things to work through -- setting boundaries, being brutally honest, are ridiculously difficult. In my opinion, it's been worth it, and I know my husband is happy we are still together. He still wishes I could have stayed monogamous, but he accepts the love I have in my heart for his friend. Bonus -- it has brought him and his friend closer too.

Watch "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid." We've sort of modeled our whole V after the relationship in the movie!

Stick with the forum. There are people here who can help get you through anything.

Good luck.

I guess what I do not understand is what makes this so wonderful. What does everyone get out of this? What are the benefits? For someone like me, who is mono, it just seems like cheating with permission. I am in no way knocking this; I am just trying to understand. I have asked them numerous times, but they both seem to be getting irritated with me, saying that they are just repeating themselves. They say there would be more love for everyone. But from my perspective, it seems that I would lose time and affection from Brynn, now that I am sharing her with someone else. I am by no means saying that this is not a possibility. I am just trying to understand how this all works. I would imagine it works differently with everyone, and sometimes may not work at all.

Thank you for your insight. I would appreciate any more that you might have, seeing as you have been in a similar situation.

For us, the benefit was we did not get a divorce. The feelings I had were too strong to fight. I tried, for 4 years. But I did NOT stop loving my husband. Losing him, and our family, would have been just as awful as denying my love for the other man. I couldn't bear to choose either one. I felt ripped in two.

I never thought there could be a third option -- yes, "having my cake and eating it too" -- but my husband loves me so much he thought I deserved to!

Of course, the benefits do seem to be more mine than my husband's. I guess the fact that I recognize that, and I'm extremely grateful to him for it, means he gets my gratitude and appreciation, multiplied!

He admires my big heart. He knows I went into this because I cared so much, because my heart was bleeding for this man, and I was overwhelmed with compassion for him. My boyfriend has been through a lot the past 4 years, and we (my husband and I both) watched and suffered along with him. I truly felt "called" to love him, to help heal him ("sexual healing" included) and I couldn't be happy knowing he wasn't. My husband knows me, and he gets that.

My self-esteem is boosted, knowing that I am sexy and desirable to two men who find me beautiful and capable of loving them wholeheartedly. That in turn makes me feel more sexy, which in turn leads to... more sex, and a happy hubby!

We joke and laugh a lot about the unconventional life we are living. We are proud of ourselves, for being so daring to try this out. We have a "little secret," but it is not mine alone, as an affair would be. This is something we share. Weird, I know, but still bonding in a strange way.

And poly means there is no need for cheating, because of the honesty. "Cheating with permission"? How can that still be "cheating," at all? Maybe think of it as "loving, with permission." Then take that a step further and see how silly that is, in the first place: who has the right to give anyone "permission" to LOVE? Love is a right, not a privilege. It's the way sex and love intertwine that gets everything all mixed up. I must admit, we're not there yet, either. It is still a struggle. Sometimes my husband is ok with the sexual nature of my other relationship, but not the emotional part. Then other times he's freaked out by both. "Friends with benefits" is a difficult balance to keep.

I guess I'm repeating myself, but the greatest benefit to my husband is he didn't lose the wife he loves. He thinks I'm worth it. Only you can decide how far you are willing to go to keep your wife. It will take a TON of work and sacrifice, but if she's worth it, you should try.

Was your husband always so willing to let you have this freedom, or did he have issues with it? If he did, how did you overcome these issues? I have never really been a secure person to begin with, and right now even less so. I have so much fear of the future now. I could see the future in my own mind, and it was beautiful. Now it seems cloudy and unclear. I find myself comparing myself to Brody, wondering if he is better than me. Is he a better fit for her?

I guess these are all normal concerns or feelings, but I have got to tell you, I don't like them at all. I do want Brynn to be happy; her happiness is my happiness. I am worried about my happiness in this. I know Brody will be happy, because he has no one else. I have watched this relationship grow in front of my eyes, even when they did not know what was happening. I was jealous of it. They said it was nothing and I was just overreacting.

I am just not sure if I am strong enough to do this. Where does the strength come from to overcome all these negative emotions?

Same boat, sorta

I hear you and feel such sympathy for you. My heart is breaking to pieces and my husband has not even found anyone yet. He wants to be open to look.

I suppose if it were my best friend it would be a double-edged sword. You'd lose two meaningful people.

My future is a white wall of nothingness now, when not long ago we were making plans for when the kids leave.

Don't lose yourself. I feel like I'm slipping away. Let's not do that! Let's just decide what's best for us, the way they have.

Thank you for your sympathy. I wish there were an easy fix to this. I love her so much.

Last night we had a long talk with a lot of tears from both of us. I think she now realizes how much pain this is causing me. I know she is in pain too. We need to figure out how to make this work. She knows how I feel, and now I am leaving it up to her. I never thought it would hurt like this. I am so afraid of their NRE. I think I will get lost or forgotten. I need to know how to deal with these feelings.

Having a bad day. My mind is racing again. I have such anger towards Brody that I do not know if our friendship will last.

The strange thing is, Brynn has been spending a lot of time with me and not a lot with Brody. I do not know if she is trying to prove that I am still important to her or what. I'm confused.

I know they have lunch together almost every day during the week... to be a fly on the wall to know what they talk about. Is it me? Is it the situation? Are they plotting to get rid of the mono? (Paranoid much?)

Have there been any poly/mono relationships where, if it did not work out, the poly stayed with the mono? I would guess not, due to the nature of the relationship. I would imagine that the poly would stay with the partner that accepts this lifestyle.

Sorry for the rambling, just having a bad day.

Bangel said:

I guess what I do not understand is what makes this so wonderful. What does everyone get out of this? What is the benefits? For someone like me, who is mono, it just seems like cheating with permission.

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Well, Bangel, your introduction to the topic was far from ideal! Far better would have been a discussion of the subject prior to your wife falling in love with your best friend! I can't imagine a more difficult way to begin to explore the poly world.

That said, I do think polyamory is wonderful, and that there are many, many benefits to poly as contrasted with monogamy. One benefit is that, for most human beings, variety really is the spice of life. I hope it's also obvious that one can ruin a good soup by over-spicing it.

(Which reminds me, did you know that the plural of spouse is spice?)

It is my opinion that non-monogamy is far more innate and natural for us humans than monogamy -- though we've all had the reverse pounded into us from since we were knee high to grasshoppers. So, as I see it, polyamory is one of the best ways to be honest and express our true nature as human beings.

I don't believe real human loving is either possessive or essentially fearful in quality, quite the opposite, really. So, as I see it, the practice of polyamory is a sort of spiritual practice which deepens both our experience of and understanding about love. (This view, of course, contrasts sharply with much of Western religion, but so what?)

It's crucial that we understand how intensely conditioned we've been by the conventional monogamistic notions of love we were raised with, and stay mindful of this fact while we ride the waves of emotion which inevitably come up as we deal with situations like yours. Monogamy is our culture's "default setting" for notions of love, but that's no excuse for resentment, anger, fearful demands or expectations. These feelings may come up, but you are now challenged with finding tenderness and love, despite them, beyond them.

You don't have to choose the poly life. It isn't something that can be imposed upon you. But you can take these apparent lemons, add some honey and water and make some lemonade. Sometimes love requires us to face seemingly insurmountable hurdles which can deepen our love beyond measure, if we allow it.

Bangel said:

Having a bad day, mind is racing again, I have such anger towards Brody that I do not know if our friendship will last.

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What I'm about to say, Bangel, may seem absurd to you, even cruel. But I'm going to say it anyway, because I think it is true -- and because I think it is good medicine.

You've probably never in your life so needed to love yourself fully as you need this now. You really need to give yourself unquestioned, unpremeditated and utterly unconditional love now. I mean, harbor not a fraction of a second of doubt about your worth. Do not entertain thoughts of: I'm less; I'm not good enough, etc.

It does not perhaps seem to be so, but you could make of this situation a great opportunity for rapid healing and growth, and much more love in your life.

You can forgive Brody, forgive Brynn, forgive yourself, and have a glorious heart-expansion that will reveal dimensions of love you've never imagined possible. Please keep this in mind and heart over the coming days. We're with you in love.

It's ok to be scared. In my house, my hubs and I talked for months before we decided to actually add someone in our relationship network. To kind of help you here, I'm also a wife who loved my hubs' best friend. My now ex-bf and hubs were best friends for many many years before I came along. So maybe I can help you from the other side of the coin that you're not seeing.

My hubs is a wonderful man whom I love more than life itself. I wouldn't trade him for all the chocolate in the world (and I love me some chocolate.) My hubs provides me with more love than I can explain. And he is a wonderful father to our two sometimes crazy boys.

When we embarked upon this journey, I picked his friend, because not only would I have someone I loved, but it would also be someone he related to, could hang out with, and be comfortable around.

It really isn't all about the sex.

I will say it was super hard for me to tell my hubby that I loved someone else. But honesty is the best way to go, no matter how hard it is. If anything, after 12 years of marriage, I love him more than ever. We embarked on a journey with my now ex-bf and I will say our relationship is better for it. I feel more open with hubby. The trust level... just wow. There is a stronger bond between my hubs and me. My hubs is my rock.

My bf was the one who made me laugh instead of cry. When my hubs couldn't be there for me while he worked. etc., my bf was. I never felt alone to face anything. Also, some nights when hubby was too tired from work and I needed... well... sex, honestly, I received that from bf.

You know it's always nice to have different perspectives on decisions, etc. Well, I had two that I trusted, so I could ask both. My hubs had a friend he could trust to take care of me. My hubs had someone who could help him out when he was just dang worn out.

My hubs had time to do some of his hobbies while I visited with bf. Honestly, hubs' hobby is not mine, and to me it's like understanding Chinese, which I don't, lol.

We both benefited from this relationship more than words can describe.

But communication is the key. Talk about it. Sit down and say, "Look, I'm really not comfortable with this. Can we talk about it for a while?"

This is not something you just jump into. My hubs and I have been married 12 years, all mono. It's only recently we began poly. I have learned a lot just reading posts on here. And I think if you're that uncomfortable with the situation, then you shouldn't do that. She needs to understand your point of view and you need to listen to hers. It may not be as bad as you think. Don't think its she's plotting against you. But she should respect your feelings in the matter. I would have never done anything if hubs weren't on board.

Chris

Flower said:

My future is a white wall of nothing now...

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This does seem like quite a severe reaction. Much pain. Much fear.

Are you able to find tenderness toward yourself, now that you need it so?

Can you deepen your breath? Let the pain go?

Breathe now, breathe often and deeply. Explore the depths of the breath. Feel and know breathing.

River,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I will start to think of myself. It has been a long time since I have done so. I am the type of person that will usually put others in front of myself. Their happiness is my happiness. But along the way, I have lost my happiness, if that makes sense.

There was a long conversation last night with Brody. I expressed my anger, but not in a screaming, "I hate you" way. I told him that I was angry at him for wanting this, and I had been thinking that maybe our friendship was over. I also told him that he has been a great friend to both me and Brynn, so I was torn in two different directions.

I know Brynn had been missing the three of us together, so I am making an effort to try to rebuild this dynamic. I also found out that Brody is unsure about this arrangement, as well. It kind of made me feel a little better, knowing I am not the only one who is having issues with this.

Brynn says she sees a wonderful life with all of us together, but he and I are not sure. I guess it is good that we are all talking right now. I wish Brynn could explain what she sees and how she views it all working out, but she cannot explain it.

Is this normal, to only go by a feeling and not have some sort of plan? I am one of those everything has a manual or directions to follow kinda of guy. I have been reading a lot of threads with mono/poly relationships, and it seems that all have had similar issues.

I guess what it comes down to is, if all are not for it, should we try it because Brynn wants it? I love her so much that I do want her to be happy, but the mono in me wishes it was just me that could satisfy her. Unrealistic, I know, because in reality one person does not give you everything you need. Please keep commenting. I will take all advice and suggestions.

Just3 [Chris],

Thank you for your input. It is nice to read about others issues and relationship successes. We still need to talk about a lot of things. It will probably take me awhile to be comfortable with this, if we decide to do it. I know a lot of my issues are insecurity, fear and jealousy.

I do find it interesting that I do not have any issue with the emotional attachment between the two. Actually, I prefer it. I care for them, so I would like them to care for each other. My biggest issue is with the physical. Just thinking of them touching each other gives me anxiety. This is the one thing they have both said they would like, to be able to show affection towards each other, all the way to sex, if they so choose.

I wish I did not have such feeling of fear and jealousy. How do you get past this?

Thank you for sharing your story with me. Every little bit helps. I seem to take something away from all of you in this.

Bangel said:

My biggest issue is with the physical. They have both said they would like to be able to show affection towards each other, all the way to sex, if they so choose. I wish I did not have such feeling of fear and jealousy. How do you get past this?

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First of all, I must say it is refreshing to read that you would rather your wife have an emotional connection than anything else. It has become a pet peeve of mine when I see so many husbands "pimping out" their wives, so to speak, but freak out when feelings develop. Human beings have feelings, and intimacy is so much more than the physical. Anyway, back to you...

Regarding the quote I included above, I don't know if this will help you, but maybe it will. I have come to learn that things have meaning to us when we give them meaning. Sex, in and of itself, doesn't mean anything, unless we tell ourselves it does. So, if we believe that it proves our partner loves us if they only have sex with us, or something like that, we have attached meaning to a physical act. A belief is just a belief and sex is just a physical activity. So it helps to look at those beliefs and the meanings we give things, and see if we can reframe them or make adjustments in our views.

Now, I think that when two people get together and share themselves sexually, it can be just some physical fun, or it can be a way to connect emotionally and solidify a relationship. Either way, I've always considered sex as a form of communication.

That's right, it's simply a way to communicate. It is two (occasionally three) people coming together and expressing themselves through their bodies and touch. It is an interaction through which we can get to know someone else on a level that doesn't need intellectualizing or verbal language. Sex is just another way to connect with someone. Sometimes there is an emotional connection, and other times, it's more physical. Remember, sex doesn't have meaning beyond what we will ascribe to it.

Does that help in any way?

NYCindie,

You are right. For me, sex has a lot of meaning. It is when you are at your most vulnerable and most intimate. It is reaching for that ultimate connection with someone that is very special to you. I believe that if sex had no meaning, then why wear clothes? Everyone would be having sex in the streets and whom you have sex with would not matter.

That is not how it is. We choose the people we sleep with because of a connection to them. I'm not saying one-night stands do not happen or that I myself have not had a few in my day, but for the most part, sex does have meaning, especially with emotional connection. Yes, sex can just be an act, but not always. I will try to think of sex with less meaning to it and see if that helps me.

I cannot believe how honest and helpful you all are. You all share your lives with such conviction. It is refreshing to talk to people with such different views on life. Thank you all for your help and advice, and please keep it coming.

nycindie said:

Remember, sex doesn't have meaning beyond what we ascribe to it.

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I think this statement is partially, even largely or significantly true. However, I think it goes too far.

What we call "meaning" (and there are various meanings to "meaning," but I'm talking about the two main ones) is often implicit in activities and acts, as well as things which are, in some sense, outside of language. Part of the meaning in a touch, or a kiss, or whatever, is context dependent in cultural-historical terms, and so on. But then, there is the animal body itself, our human bodies. They are pulsating with meanings all their own, independent of our conceptualizations and mental-emotional habits or conditionings.

Sex, when it is not rape, when it is voluntary and mutually desired, is intrinsically intimate. There's no getting around that. One can cut themselves off, to varying degrees, to the conscious awareness of this fact, but it is still so. Some of that experience and intimacy dwells in our thoughts and ideas about it, while some of it is simply what is, independent of our language or notions. Indeed, the very apparent gap between the conditioned and the pre- or un-conditioned and the world of thought and language, is part of the pleasure and joy of sexual communion. Sex, like dancing or swimming or skating, is a non-verbal activity. But there is meaning in any of these activities which is intrinsic, and yet which is ever so difficult to talk about.

We do not make all meaning up, and it isn't all a cultural artifact or arbitrary rendition. This we realize when we get under language, into our bodies, as, for example, when making love.

The meaning of meaning.

There are two primary conventional meanings of the word meaning. They are:

1. What is intended to be, or actually is, expressed or indicated; signification; import: "the three meanings of a word."

2. The end, purpose, or significance of something: "What is the meaning of life? What is the meaning of this intrusion?"


There are other possible meanings to meaning, including one that marries these two together.

If things in the world, independent of language, had no prior meaning, ultimately all meaning would not be possible. Everything would be or become meaningless -- in this third sense of the term.

I did not mean to imply that sex is not important or intimate. It is both!

My point was that we often ascribe the act with a certain meaning, which is often wrapped around our beliefs, and this can lead to interpretation.

As an example of what I'm trying to say, let's look at someone who believes that sex should only take place between two people who love each other. Therefore, when sex happens, the act helps confirm to them that their partner loves them. Sex, to this person, has grown to mean love. That can lead to the interpretation that if their partner has sex with someone else, they don't love them anymore. Yet we all know that love can happen without sex and sex can happen without love.

Another belief: that romantic and sexual relationships only have value if monogamous. Therefore, to that person, the idea of a romantic, sexual partnership means monogamy. A variant on that is the belief that when people are sexual and committed to each other, they "belong to" each other, a sort of ownership.

If a partner wishes to cultivate romance with someone else, or have sex with someone else, or both, then these meanings that have been given to their current relationship can lead to interpret the partner's desires or actions as meaning the relationship has less value to them, or it means that they have been "lost" somehow and no longer belong to them.

If one is operating out of both these beliefs, it is easy to feel slighted, unloved, left behind, betrayed, and all that painful stuff when a partner says, "I want a romantic sexual relationship with someone else outside of our relationship." Jealousy often sits on top of other deeper feelings, but there tends to be an element of feeling something that was yours was taken from you. But these are all mostly mental constructs.

Hence, my assertion that sex holds whatever meaning we give it. I thought maybe that would be helpful to the OP in looking at the feelings coming up at the idea of his partner being sexually involved with someone else. It's always good to examine our beliefs and the meanings we give things in our lives. Not saying it is wrong to do that, but that through awareness we can deconstruct how we've set things up in our minds and find ways to handle the impact of issues that bump up against these beliefs and values we've created for ourselves.

Maybe what I've written here makes my point more clear?

Bangel said:

Was your husband always so willing to let you have this freedom, or did he have issues with it? If he did, how did you overcome these issues? I have never really been a secure person to begin with, and right now, even less so..

I compare myself to him, wondering if he is better than me, a better fit for her. I do want her to be happy; her happiness is my happiness. I am worried about my happiness in this. I know Brody will be happy, because he has no one else. I have watched this relationship grow before my eyes, even when they did not know what was happening I was jealous of it when they said it was nothing and I was just over reacting. Where does the strength come from to overcome all these negative emotions?

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Hubs struggled and he still does. He was the one who suggested opening the marriage. He decided it was never going to resolve itself if I had to act like it was over, act like my feelings were gone. I would just be faking it. He knew he would still be suspicious all the time.

He got really crazy for a while, and started secretly recording my bf and me when we would meet up at my house during the day. He wanted to know if we were plotting against him, planning to run off together. When I found the recorder, I was furious. I had been 100% honest with him. The only good thing about it was that the tapes confirmed that. He still had major trust issues.

And the comparisons! That was really rough in the beginning. I never compared the two of them, but my husband really did. I do know he never wavered in his faith that no one could love me like he himself did. Still, he felt inadequate in many ways and it really threw him for a loop.

What helped? We went to a great counselor. Poly was new to her, but she was familiar with the 1960s and '70s "open marriage" concept. And she worked with my husband one-on-one, as well. He needed that sooooo much! Like you, he has been insecure most of his life. Crazy too, since he is a truly beautiful human being, inside and out. She helped boost his confidence greatly, strengthened his sense of self, and validated his feelings about poly, especially the negative ones he didn't even want to vent to me.

Our hope is that the affair with my bf will run its course until he is ready to find a full-time girlfriend and begin a traditional relationship someday. Right now he is in a transitional mode. Eventually he will move on, and my husband and I will most likely go back to a monogamous marriage. Poly is really hard, but for us it was better than the alternatives.

I'm so glad you have found this forum. It helped us immensely. There are some terrific people here who have walked in similar shoes. Personally, I think they are heroes!