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  #41  
Old 11-12-2009, 03:40 PM
CabbageTheif CabbageTheif is offline
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every solution has a downside.... i think thats fair, and the way the whole world works.

you cant create something out of nothing. it all comes from somewhere. whether you make energy in your body by consuming food (the downside generally being for whatever it is you are eating) or you rush a vaccine onto the market because of public pressure (the downside being unexpected side effects) or what, there is always give and take.
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  #42  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:46 PM
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PittDruid PittDruid is offline
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My thoughts about the world changing, is that the bad always comes before the good. So we may be in for some rough times before everything equals out.
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2009, 02:40 AM
Quath Quath is offline
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Of course you do realize that "sustainable" farming is not synonymous with "organic" farming?

(This discussion will inevitably progress toward the topic of overpopulation so I might as well put that out there right now.)
Yes. I like the goals of a lot of the enviornmentalists. I just may not always agree with the methods.
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  #44  
Old 11-16-2009, 04:21 AM
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rolypoly rolypoly is offline
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  #45  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:28 PM
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TED
Yay TED!
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:09 AM
Nyx Nyx is offline
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Amen to that, River! We must, each one of us, take the steps we can take RIGHT NOW to reduce our negative ecological impacts. And support one another in the effort to do so.

It can be done. It must be done. Let's get it done! At the very least, let's stop giving the stink-eye to those who are doing it.
Unfortunately, there are a huge number of people who make up this country who are very uneducated, very ignorant, very selfish, and very lazy. I have a name for them that I will not post here as it is very offensive. You can see a lot of these people in the aisles of Walmart, for example, wandering around like zombies: their only goal is to feather their nest with bits of cheap plastic.

They care not where these items come from, the impact the mining, production, and wastes created by these cheap goods have on the environment, not to mention the lives of the people in far-off lands who are actually working to create them - people whose lives are pathetically miserable, who make no money, who are SICK and DIE because of their need to work creating these products that we take for granted.

I was in JCPenney today with my mom (black friday of all days) and I realized how obscene our consumption of cheap crap really is! The one store is filled to the brim with junk, junk, junk and there are tens of thousands of these stores worldwide! When I started to mentally envision the amount of resources being used and abused in the creation of these consumer "goods" my head started to reel.

But as I was saying, there are far too many people who can't seem to stop, or don't see any purpose in stopping, the insane consumption of this Stuff. Many people are so blind to their "need", their "desire" for useless junk that gets inevitably tossed out within months of its purchase....only to cause the "need" to go purchase even more to replace it. Our homes are FILLED with piles of THINGS. To REAL poor people in China, India, Nepal, even the poorest American is wealthy beyond belief. We take our abundance for granted.

Many people are too scared to stop. Many people are addicted, slaves to consumption. Our children are slaves to consumption. It is maddening that people, HUMANS, are trampled to death because everyone was in a rush to purchase the last Playstation in the store.

I have no faith that this attitude will change. I have no faith that everyone will wake up one day and see that the cycle is being caused by our "need" for cheap crap, our "need" to replace our computers every year, our "need" to upgrade to the latest and greatest video game system, our "need" to have the latest fashion jeans. Where do we think this stuff comes from??? And where do we think it GOES??? We are so far removed from the reality of all this that many people don't bother to think about it. And if you try to tell them, inform them, they DO NOT CARE. All they care about is the Stuff.
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  #47  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:15 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
Unfortunately, there are a huge number of people who make up this country who are very uneducated, very ignorant, very selfish, and very lazy. I have a name for them that I will not post here as it is very offensive. You can see a lot of these people in the aisles of Walmart, for example, wandering around like zombies: their only goal is to feather their nest with bits of cheap plastic.

They care not where these items come from, the impact the mining, production, and wastes created by these cheap goods have on the environment, not to mention the lives of the people in far-off lands who are actually working to create them - people whose lives are pathetically miserable, who make no money, who are SICK and DIE because of their need to work creating these products that we take for granted.

I was in JCPenney today with my mom (black friday of all days) and I realized how obscene our consumption of cheap crap really is! The one store is filled to the brim with junk, junk, junk and there are tens of thousands of these stores worldwide! When I started to mentally envision the amount of resources being used and abused in the creation of these consumer "goods" my head started to reel.

But as I was saying, there are far too many people who can't seem to stop, or don't see any purpose in stopping, the insane consumption of this Stuff. Many people are so blind to their "need", their "desire" for useless junk that gets inevitably tossed out within months of its purchase....only to cause the "need" to go purchase even more to replace it. Our homes are FILLED with piles of THINGS. To REAL poor people in China, India, Nepal, even the poorest American is wealthy beyond belief. We take our abundance for granted.

Many people are too scared to stop. Many people are addicted, slaves to consumption. Our children are slaves to consumption. It is maddening that people, HUMANS, are trampled to death because everyone was in a rush to purchase the last Playstation in the store.

I have no faith that this attitude will change. I have no faith that everyone will wake up one day and see that the cycle is being caused by our "need" for cheap crap, our "need" to replace our computers every year, our "need" to upgrade to the latest and greatest video game system, our "need" to have the latest fashion jeans. Where do we think this stuff comes from??? And where do we think it GOES??? We are so far removed from the reality of all this that many people don't bother to think about it. And if you try to tell them, inform them, they DO NOT CARE. All they care about is the Stuff.

Nyx, I'm really glad you took the time to make this post because I agree with everything you said, only I didn't have the energy to get into all that by myself. I quoted the whole thing in case something should happen to change your mind and cause you to edit your original post.

I'm an antiques buff, by the way
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2009, 02:11 AM
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Oh-yeah! There are certainly a lot of sleepwalkers among us -- and a huge wake up call is brewing ... as this present "economic downturn" is PERMANENT, not temporary. We've arrived at peak net energy and peak oil ... and lots of other peaks ... and global warming.... And still far too many are sleepwalking.

But still I have hope that we can transition to a better world. I have to have such hope, and I also have to help make it happen.

Please, people, educate yourselves on the backstory of what's going on. The links in my signature will help with that, and offer guidance on where to turn for more. Do not despair, join the efforts of transformation instead.
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:13 AM
Quath Quath is offline
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Nyx, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I think we should learn to be happy with what we have. Sustainable happiness comes from appreciating the life you have, not the life you wish you had. You can't buy your way into happiness.

Now that being said, we need to be careful about picking on Walmart customers and Walmart itself. They used goods and services from very poor countries which could involve child labor and sweat shops. But that is not necessarily bad. When industrial countries have closed down or tried to stop sweat shops, it is really the children and poor that suffer from this effort. A lot of the time, the choice for a child is sweat shop or prostitution. I see it as the lesser of the evils. Plus over time, the country gains wealth and may eventually prosper. I am not saying that I like sweat shops, but I don't want to cause more harm by shutting them down.

River, I have been very interested in the energy problems facing the world. I got my degree in nuclear engineering & health physics. From my perspective, we need to invest in better and cleaner energy sources. It will take some time to go from fossil fuels to cleaner energy. Oil production ispeaking, so we will probably start using tar (twice the carbon emissions) or liquified coal (also bad on carbon emissions).

I think solar, nuclear and conservation will be the longer term solutions to energy production. They both can use more R&D. For example, one proposal that my lab is working on is using fusion and fission to burn fuel. It is designed to get rid of high level waste. Not real sure if it will work, but so far there are no show stoppers.

I think we are all hoping for a better world where we are happier and are getting our needs and desires met.
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:53 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quath View Post
When industrial countries have closed down or tried to stop sweat shops, it is really the children and poor that suffer from this effort. A lot of the time, the choice for a child is sweat shop or prostitution. I see it as the lesser of the evils. Plus over time, the country gains wealth and may eventually prosper. I am not saying that I like sweat shops, but I don't want to cause more harm by shutting them down.

.
I could not have said that better. Great perspective.
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