Hello from NY!

[MRC2009]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

Only time can tell on many things in life.
The journal is probably a really great idea.

I think some of the issues you have listed make perfect sense. Have you all chosen a poly-friendly therapist? I ask because it might be very helpful if you two could discuss ALL of this (as well as the rest) with the therapist. Even if you resolve whatever the other issues are, if these can't be resolved as well it won't matter...
Just seems like it might be good to address both...

My husband originally had a therapist that was "open minded" but she had never heard of Polyamory before. It doesn't matter because my husband broke her trust and she wouldn't see him (or us) anymore. So he gave me the task of finding someone new for us to see. I was able to find us someone who is open minded and knows what Poly is. The therapist said that he has dealt with individual people and Poly, just not couples. After speaking with my husband about it he's okay with that. We plan on discussing everything with the therapist. At this time I'm hopeful!

LR: Thank you for all of your great advice and responces! I really appreciate it.

[LovingRadiance]

Originally Posted by MRC2009

LR: Thank you for all of your great advice and responces! I really appreciate it.

You are welcome. I try.

I think that is great about the therapist. Sometimes it really does take a "neutral" third party to help negotiate difficult conversations. It's made a HUGE difference for Maca and I.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Originally Posted by MRC2009

Here are the rules that I have written down: 1) At NO time will any other female become pregnant by my husband. 2) NO unprotected sex!! Ever->For no reason! No glove, No LOVE!!! 3)At this current moment I am not comfortable with sleepovers. At no time have I told him to be only monogamous with me. Nor have I told him that he can't sleep with anyone else. Though I did ask that he not just sleep with anyone and everyone.

These all sound very familiar...and as I think someone else has already mentioned, well within the realm of reasonable given your family situation and of course prudent sexual health precautions. I continue to wonder about your husbands motivations. (This is actually me being overly civil and polite where greenearthal I think beat me to most of the words I might otherwise use)

Originally Posted by MRC2009

I can tell you that I would NOT take on a BF for show & tell, Payback or equity. I consider myself monogamous, though I'm not against trying something new. Everything is so new for me right now. I honestly don't know if I could ever have a BF or GF. I guess only time will tell!

It can be a lot to wrap your head around, and can take some time to sort out. You should take your time coming to whatever decision is true to you...for now. (Because sometimes things change...and sometimes they don't)
As an aside, I can't be sure since text is a lousy indicator of tone, but I hope my questions aren't being taken personally. I have a habit of looking for hard and sometimes uncomfortable questions that I think might need to be asked...that doesn't mean I want an answer or am drawing conclusions. They're just things I think of that might benefit someone like you who might need to answer the questions for themselves. Only share as much as you like.

Originally Posted by MRC2009

My husband originally had a therapist that was "open minded" but she had never heard of Polyamory before. It doesn't matter because my husband broke her trust and she wouldn't see him (or us) anymore. So he gave me the task of finding someone new for us to see. I was able to find us someone who is open minded and knows what Poly is.

Your husband seems to be headed for title 'piece of work' if he is offloading the therapist search on you...especially if he broke the last one. I'll stop now...and hopefully greenearthal can find a more accurate and eloquent way to discribe what I'm thinking again.

Cheers.

[NeonKaos]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion

Your husband seems to be headed for title 'piece of work' if he is offloading the therapist search on you...especially if he broke the last one. I'll stop now...and hopefully greenearthal can find a more accurate and eloquent way to discribe what I'm thinking again.

Cheers.

I bet a lot of us could describe what you're thinking, but I would color my language better than a box of 64 Crayola crayons.

Suffice to say that I wouldn't want to help this "man" replicate his DNA, even if it were to mean the human race would grind to a screeching halt.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Originally Posted by YGirl

I bet a lot of us could describe what you're thinking, but I would color my language better than a box of 64 Crayola crayons.

Suffice to say that I wouldn't want to help this "man" replicate his DNA, even if it were to mean the human race would grind to a screeching halt.

LOL....well said YGirl. Although I thought your sentiments leant towards not helping ANY man replicate his DNA!

[NeonKaos]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion

LOL....well said YGirl. Although I thought your sentiments leant towards not helping ANY man replicate his DNA!

I meant that as if I were so inclined.

I AM glad that I am not at the mercy of these "hormones" and "biological clocks" that so many folks speak of.

I realize that it IS a big deal for some people.

[Legion]

Originally Posted by MRC2009

...jot down a couple of rules...The biggest one is that I asked him not to get any other women pregnant. He said that could not and would not make that promise to me. This has been a BIG deal for me as I have fertility issues. In April 2009 we decided to take the next step in dealing with the fertility, so I'm really confused, upset, etc about this.
"M"

Okay, my perception from reading this thread is that your husband likes/loves you and wants to continue a relationship with you, but he also has some nagging thing in the back of his head that he wants kids and that he's not going to be able to have them with you. Maybe that's his only reason for wanting multiple partners, or maybe he has other motivations, but I perceive that this is a very real and major motivation for him. So naturally if you make it a rule that he can't do what he specifically is wanting to be "poly" for, you are going to butt heads.

I know a lot of people are ragging on him for other quotes like telling you that he will be more likely to find a partner than you so I'm not going to even bother joining that parade. Suffice to say, he finds odd ways to express his respect and admiration for you.

Originally Posted by MRC2009

husband keeps bringing up a Needs/Wants/Likes list. He said that he made one a few months ago and that he goes back to it every so often to add/delete/modify it. He wants me to make one too so that we can compare the two together. He said that if the lists aren't similar enough then there is no way for us to continue as a couple. I keep telling him that I am not living my life by some list. I sat down last week to make this list and I can only come up with 3-4 things in the "needs" section.

I honestly don't know where to go from here. Is there anyone who has made a list like this or knows what I'm talking about? "M"

I had this request from my up-until-recently-g/f, Nyx who posted a thread about her request and my response here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=550
which of course led to a great discussion about what does one truly need in the more existential vein, wants vs. needs and so on. I found it went deeper than my original understanding and perception of the question when it was posed to me; perhaps it will help you?

I have a hard time coming up with anything in the needs section because I am a very independent person, partly due to losing the person I was closest to, my mother, when I was 22. One of the lessons I learned from her death was that there is no one in my life that I cannot continue on without, be it because of their death or simply because our two paths diverge (this side of the borderlands).

I had a hard time giving Nyx what she was asking for, which I think was a list of requirements. I suppose there are things that I require or the antithesis as in redsirenn's Relationship Death List, things like "Killing my dog and painting my garage with his blood." or to be less specific, "Continued emotional or physical abuse.". A list of things I won't put up with. But I never really know myself for true until the situation arises. Nyx has never thrown a punch or a plate at me, but certainly I've been shiv'd by daggers in her eyes and words, which I have forgiven. A different me at a different time might (reasonably enough) react differently. So my new question is what are your needs and are they future needs, present needs, permanent or temporary? And by needs I mean dominant motivations.

I am with you on "not living your life by a list." We are a series of moments and memories and energies and sure you can write something down like I am at this moment but this does not being to encapsulate me... it is merely an expression of who and where and what I am feeling in this moment in response to what I am perceiving and processing. Making lists and defining oneself has the inherent danger of causing neglect of one's infinite nature.

[greenearthal]

Originally Posted by Legion

Okay, my perception from reading this thread is that your husband likes/loves you and wants to continue a relationship with you, but he also has some nagging thing in the back of his head that he wants kids and that he's not going to be able to have them with you. Maybe that's his only reason for wanting multiple partners, or maybe he has other motivations, but I perceive that this is a very real and major motivation for him. So naturally if you make it a rule that he can't do what he specifically is wanting to be "poly" for, you are going to butt heads.

But he ALSO seems very self-focused like nobody else's needs or feelings matter. I can STRONGLY (very strongly) sympathize with the desire to become a parent, but that does not excuse you loosing your humanity and treating people badly. When your whole attitude becomes "WE are going to become polyamous, but all of the decisions about how we're going to be polyamorous are going to come from ME," then you end up with worthless polyamory.

[MRC2009]

Originally Posted by Legion

Okay, my perception from reading this thread is that your husband likes/loves you and wants to continue a relationship with you, but he also has some nagging thing in the back of his head that he wants kids and that he's not going to be able to have them with you. Maybe that's his only reason for wanting multiple partners, or maybe he has other motivations, but I perceive that this is a very real and major motivation for him. So naturally if you make it a rule that he can't do what he specifically is wanting to be "poly" for, you are going to butt heads.

Legion-Thank you for your reply! I think that your perception is pretty close to how I think my husband feels. My husband has said to me that he has convinced himself that I won't be able to have children! And that is a lot of the problems between us. Instead of him asking/talking to me about things, he just assumes that he knows what I'm going to say or how I am going to feel. I keep saying to him that we haven't begun to try yet and we won't know what's going to happen until we do. I mean I just began the first step in April 2009. We were supposed to start the second step in April 2010. I'm extremely hopeful and my doctor is too. I just wish that my husband was as well.

I have often wondered if he wants to be Poly in hopes that he can plant his seed and have the children he so desperately wants. I haven't asked so I'm not going to assume anything. But you make a lot of sense as to why he became so defensive when I said that I didn't want him getting any other woman pregnant. At this current time all I am asking from him is to let us try first! If it doesn't happen for us then I'll have to rethink that "rule."

Originally Posted by Legion

I know a lot of people are ragging on him for other quotes like telling you that he will be more likely to find a partner than you so I'm not going to even bother joining that parade. Suffice to say, he finds odd ways to express his respect and admiration for you.

I do agree that he finds add ways to express his respect and admiration for me. That's one thing that I've been having a hard time with. I've asked him time and time again if he wanted to get divorced so that he could live the Poly lifestyle and everytime he says no! How can he tell me no then be so mean to me with his words? I am trying to be as open and receptive to his feelings as I possibly can. It's really hard as I've only had 4 weeks to deal with this and he says that he's been wrestling with it for 4 years.

Originally Posted by Legion

I am with you on "not living your life by a list." We are a series of moments and memories and energies and sure you can write something down like I am at this moment but this does not being to encapsulate me... it is merely an expression of who and where and what I am feeling in this moment in response to what I am perceiving and processing. Making lists and defining oneself has the inherent danger of causing neglect of one's infinite nature.

I wish I could get my husband to understand this. I have done my best to make a list but it just doesn't feel right to me. When I tried to talked to my husband (it's hard as he's out of the country at the moment) about my list he told me that it wasn't right. My list contains single word answers and according to him they are supposed to be statements. As an example one of my needs is 'communication.' He says that I need to be specific as to what I mean by that. I'm getting so incredibly frustrated with this damn list crap!

I really think that my husband is scared, nervous, etc about all of this. I'm just worried that he is over zealous about all of this. I mean all he keeps talking about are the Pros of Poly and how "fun and exciting" it can be for us. I'm really scared that he is going to be hurt! He doesn't have a great track record with woman (meaning he only had a few dates with the woman in his past. I don't think anyone stuck around for more then 2-3 months). Not too mention he has a LOT of anxiety (about lots of things). I've tried to tell him how worried I am about these things and he has told me that, that's part of what I'm here for. To be his rock when/if something like that happens. I don't want to see him get hurt, used or abused. I love and care about him way to much to not be there for him.

BTW...Are there any books that anyone can recommend to me (about Poly, etc)? I've heard a lot about 'The Ethical Slut' but I wondered if that's geared more towards the Poly minded or can a Mono read it too?

[MRC2009]

Originally Posted by greenearthal

But he ALSO seems very self-focused like nobody else's needs or feelings matter. I can STRONGLY (very strongly) sympathize with the desire to become a parent, but that does not excuse you loosing your humanity and treating people badly. When your whole attitude becomes "WE are going to become polyamous, but all of the decisions about how we're going to be polyamorous are going to come from ME," then you end up with worthless polyamory.

AMEN to you! I couldn't have said it any better myself. I DO understand his desire to have children. I want them too! I had always thought that I would have had my children by now (actually by 25, which I'm past). A couple months ago he told me that a friend of his (and their wife) from High school just had their first baby. He went on and on about how he's the only one who didn't have any children. I told him that we are NOT going to play "keeping up with the Jones's." Until now we simply have not been in a position to have children (other than my fertility issues). He has said that he didn't think about the logical (wrong word but I can't think of the right word) reasons as to why we don't already have children.