Cheated on with Poly as the reason.

HurtandConfused

New member
I'm SUPER HESITANTLY re-assessing my definition of relationships, sex, intimacy and possessive feelings because I'm "forced" (ok, not really) to due to my partner having decided that our relationship wasn't making her happy (due to a LOT of things that were my fault) and that (secret) Poly would fix it; but she wasn't very happy with the secret part and eventually I worked it out that she had been sleeping with a friend of hers for the past few months. I never feel like she openly admitted what she was doing, it seemed to trickle out as she reluctantly told me the details when I emphasized questions. Now I (finally, I think) know that she had been emotionally cheating on me for some time, and then after Hurricane Maria (we live in the USVI, our house got minor damage, we rode through the hurricane together with our kids in a bed room) she started sleeping with the friend. She says it fulfills a sexual fantasy that I can't, because it's opposite of what I fulfill for her (and after being cheated on this is pretty hard to hear for me).



Why do I feel so strongly about someone being happy with someone else AND with me, it's like a physical reaction; like I have an ulcer or someone injects me with anxiety when the thoughts come up... but we weren't virgins when we met, why is it different now?

I think the cheating happened mostly because we had an unhealthy relationship and I set myself up for failure in a few ways, I provided everything for a long time (she is certainly contributing now) and when I think back on it I may have been setting up a financial dependency so I felt more permission to "be me" and be less of what she wanted me to be (in the beginning I felt she was very co-dependent (which I thought was very unhealthy, very judgy on my part) and always fawning over me adoring me, I didn't return the same level of attention and I'm sure that's how this all started off). I had different thoughts on topics like drug use etc that I didn't fully respect her on and we clashed over, but I thought it wasn't really a big deal so I didn't understand the reaction to the topic (haha, funny how THAT came back to bite me).

She said that she was very angry at me for a long time because I wasn't fulfilling her expectations until she came to the realization that I was just being me, not doing things to intentionally hurt her; and she could fill those needs with someone else and not have to pressure me for those needs. This makes sense, and I allowed a "friend ship" to progress to "wildly inappropriate levels" (my label) to the point that I knew she was emotionally fulfilling parts of her elsewhere; and we even talked about having open relationships (I was vehemently against, as I've had issues in the past that I haven't worked through fully) and she was just realizing (I think) what her naturally flirtatious nature meant (something I always was at least minorly annoyed by for reasons already stated). She says she was just being selfish and looking for a solution to what she felt was lacking in our relationship; to her this was the perfect fix, to her it wasn't a big deal, to her it was a fix to our relationship and she did not know how badly she would hurt me. She felt bad about lying to me but not very much as she was planning a trip to stay with him for 8 days this june recently (thats when I finally started to get the truth). She says her ideal situation is to have both of us in her life.

Anyway, we are both trying to set the past aside and work things out, I'm still very hurt by the "cheating" (lying really) but why? She says she'll try to work with me but cannot promise anything for the future (which, omg is so honest!) and I strongly feel that if I stay with her it won't be just us in the future.. and maybe it shouldn't be, who am I to stop her from what makes her happy? Hell maybe I'd like to have an open relationship(?). Or I could still just be processing hurt and seeing things the worst way possible according to my current perspective (thanks brain!).

I recently said there's no way we could be in a relationship in the future with her continuing to have outside partners, but why? If she can be happy with me and someone else, why am I stopping her? Jealousy certainly (fear), a sense of in-adequateness and self loathing that I-wasn't-good-enough (basically insecurities, which are MY issue, not hers... still working through these feelings).I feel that our relationship was lessened when she spent the time with him in the past and I was always depressed and KNEW something was wrong when she went on trips with him (yeah, I'm an overly supportive idiot).

Even though we got to this point with her hurting me, I think it was just an inflection point in our relationship, I need to accept her for what she is right now; or not be with her. Or perhaps she needs to do the same to me?

Logically monogamy makes zero sense, I've had the drive to be sexually promiscuous all my life (a drive I've SAVAGELY contained all my life) so why now that I'm interacting with someone else with a similar mind set am I so hurt/betrayed feeling (more of my own personal baggage i'm sure)? Probably doesn't help that she's very attractive and I've maybe always felt like i got too lucky with her and insecurity bla bla blah..

At times we both think we have an awesome opportunity here, that this situation has re-focused our relationship, but I still have heavy trepidation's that the future will mostly likely include something I'm not sure I'm ready for; but we are only 4 days into this, so I don't see how clearly I can be thinking on the topic.
 
Hi
I'm sorry this is how it all began.
I have no advice, but really wanted to say I'm impressed with your articulate expression of your thought and emotional processing. Your wife, from your description, seems sensible too in that she's being honest rather than making promises she can't keep.
You're right that 4 days is just the beginning.

Kia kaha
Evie
 
Hi
I'm sorry this is how it all began.
I have no advice, but really wanted to say I'm impressed with your articulate expression of your thought and emotional processing. Your wife, from your description, seems sensible too in that she's being honest rather than making promises she can't keep.
You're right that 4 days is just the beginning.

Kia kaha
Evie


We are working on just us right now, she has cut off contact with the "other" while we do this and I've talked to him and he understands (she lied to him and said the two of us had an open relationship).

Obviously the cheating was a symptom of the relationship going sideways and our break down of communication (which seems to have greatly improved).

I would hope that we can come out of this and grow together with me being enough for her to feel fulfilled but I don't know, she mentions being very afraid of our relationship going back to what it was and her NOT having another man in her life to fulfill her, she had mentioned previously that she didn't care if the relationship stayed the same as long as she had her other around... This makes me think that the relationship is faulty and the "other" is a band-aid? I feel like these types of relationpships give two "lesser" relationships; but I am probably wrong.

I'm having a lot of shame and negative feelings about myself that are apparently common with infidelity so I'm trying to work on my own insecurities right now (which are probably a large part of the problem).


I would like to get to a space where I am either OK with Poly and feel like I can move forward with it or know for sure I'm not (and these feelings I currently have make me think it's the latter).

I guess I'll just read a few of the threads here and see if I can get anything out of it.

If I were a more secure person I think Polyamor seems like a very interesting prospect, but at the same time it seems it can be a very selfish move also.
 
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Greetings HurtandConfused,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Perhaps your hurt and hesitation comes from knowing you were cheated on, rather than your partner being honest in the first place and telling you what she intended to do, or asking for your consent. Instead, she did it first, then admitted it to you, reluctantly. This probably makes you feel like you can't trust her.

Of course, there may be other things that are stressing you out, such as jealousy or insecurity. Also there is monogamous conditioning, which most of us have been subjected to since we were kids. It is hard to break that conditioning.

Hopefully, Polyamory.com can help you. You seem to want to be okay with poly, but you have to consider that you may be hardwired to be monogamous. You'll need to try to figure out if that's the case. You seem to have some pretty strong reservations against your partner being poly. You seem to be torn up about it. Like you are undecided.

It's good that your partner is willing to put her other relationship on hold in order to give you the chance to collect yourself. Continue to post, and we'll continue to try to help. It's good that you could join us.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

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Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
You seem to have some pretty strong reservations against your partner being poly. You seem to be torn up about it. Like you are undecided.

Well we had briefly discussed it, and I was uncomfortable, which she noticed so she didn't feel comfortable discussing it.. then she just did it.

But either way, that's past.

Point is, I think our relationship was just probably the furthest possible from being ready for a move like this, and I'm trying to figure out how I can curtail all these feelings I have when I think about them together.

anger, fear of loss/lessening, insecurity... a lot of things that are basically all just in my head and have little to do with her (or even her indiscretion really..).

I'm feeling a lot of things that aren't realistic and it's very frustrating.

Another frustrating thing is that everything I seem to read is Pro Poly and Anti monogomy... this cannot be the case, nothing is black and white, what are the BAD sides of Poly, are there many successful long term Poly relationships or is a long term relationship antithesis to Poly?


And thanks ;)
 
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Glad the jealousy links help.

Re:
"What are the *bad* sides of poly, are there many successful long-term poly relationships or is a long-term relationship antithesis to poly?"

I can only speak for myself, I have been in a poly relationship for over twelve years (and it shows no signs of stopping). As for the bad sides of poly, http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell is a good example.
 
I'm sorry all this happened.

I'm glad you are re-evaluating. I encourage you to do that.

It may turn out you think poly is fine for other people who can practice it well, but not really for you.

I'm sorry your partner cheated on you and lied to him. If this is the sort of behavior you deal in? It's ok to vote "no confidence" and not want to do poly with her because you don't like how she does it. She might want to go there, but YOU can choose to get off the Bus and not accompany her.

Maybe you decide Poly Town is not a place you want to go to. Maybe you decide to take the trip later on with other people who haven't hurt you in the past.

But this relationship? From the original post it doesn't sound like you bring out the best in each other. It also doesn't sound like you guys were especially compatible or happy together. Just maybe taking a long time to realize it. :(

Why do I feel so strongly about someone being happy with someone else AND with me, it's like a physical reaction; like I have an ulcer or someone injects me with anxiety when the thoughts come up... but we weren't virgins when we met, why is it different now?

Maybe because of how it came to pass -- with the cheating on agreements. Rather than being honest and up front from the start.

Since you are at a cross roads? Could decide if you want to keep investing here or if it is better for your health and well being to just let it go. Like "No hard feelings, I forgive you for the cheating (if you really do). But no, thanks. I don't want to keep going with you and him in some new poly "V" model. I prefer to part ways."

Then you can take all the time you need to heal WITHOUT having the stress of launching a new "V" dynamic on top if it. There's a point where you have to accept that you plate is already too full to take on MORE stuff.

I don't know if this helps you any.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

To me you sound sort of in shock. Like "I cannot believe cheating happened" and you aren't getting time or space to process all that.

Meanwhile, you partner is rushing you to accept a new model without giving you time and space to process that either.

I don't think one can "whitewash" cheating with the poly brush and think it is all ok now.

She says she was just being selfish and looking for a solution to what she felt was lacking in our relationship; to her this was the perfect fix, to her it wasn't a big deal, to her it was a fix to our relationship and she did not know how badly she would hurt me. She felt bad about lying to me but not very much as she was planning a trip to stay with him for 8 days this june recently (thats when I finally started to get the truth). She says her ideal situation is to have both of us in her life.

When someone tells you they are selfish? You could BELIEVE THEM. The relationship doesn't sound all that healthy or happy when she lies to him and she lies to you.

If she lies to get what she wants? I wouldn't rush to automatically preserve this relationship. Take a time out and do your soul searching and decide if you really want to continue with her. Do the thinking you need to do from the perspective of what YOU want in a partner, what YOU want in YOUR relationships, what YOU need to feel good and be healthy. Then assess if this partner makes the cut or not.

I'm still very hurt by the "cheating" (lying really) but why?

Because most people don't like being lied to. When you cannot believe people at their Word, it makes it hard to trust. It makes an unstable, insecure climate when they are around. You don't know where you are with them and if you are safe of if they're gonna stab you in the back or what.

Because this is NOT poly. This was (cheating behind your back) that is now (continuing to cheat, just out in the open.) With a side helping of lying to him too. Just a big mess.

It doesn't sound like she's owned it, apologized, and asked for forgiveness or how she can begin to make amends. She hasn't cleaned up the old mess, yet wants to jump on to a new thing too fast.

It is not like poly is "magic." One can make new poly or open agreements and then turn around and cheat on those too. It is the character of the person and their ability to keep their Word that upholds agreements. Not the "relationship shape."

I could be wrong, but to me mostly it sounds like she wants to "hurry up" and "sweep it under the rug" so she can get back to her fun. Not really thinking about how she participates with her partners and if she's behaving in loving ways towards you or him. Just running rough over both of you. Again. :(

She says she'll try to work with me but cannot promise anything for the future (which, omg is so honest!)

Why OMG? Basic honesty could have been present all along. Be leery of being all "WOW! I'm so impressed that I finally get basic good manners here!" like you are getting gold when really it's long overdue basics.

I recently said there's no way we could be in a relationship in the future with her continuing to have outside partners, but why?

Because you can have you own preferences. She is not the boss of all where what she says goes and everyone else just has to fall in line.

Because maybe you don't want to do poly with her and him.

Because maybe you don't want her to keep making unilateral choices that affect you without you having a voice in the things that concern you.

Because doing poly before building trust up again first is jumping the gun.

Could be lots of reasons. You could sit and articulate what your reasons are.

Point is, I think our relationship was just probably the furthest possible from being ready for a move like this, and I'm trying to figure out how I can curtail all these feelings I have when I think about them together.

If she's just gonna go ahead with him even though you think that this relationship is not ready to Open? If he's ok being lied to and keeps on with her anyway? Neither means YOU have to automatically say "Ok" to the New Deal.

You sound like you are being railroaded. It's ok not to like being treated like that.

I think you could be ok feeling however you feel rather than keep trying to talk yourself out of it like your feelings are "broken" or "too much" or need to be "curtailed" or something.

I think you could say "No. This relationship is nowhere close to being ready to poly. If you want to poly now, I cannot stop you. But I do want off this Bus. If you want to poly with me, you have to put in some repair work FIRST. Trust was broken. I'm not willing to go to Poly Town all wonky."

anger, fear of loss/lessening, insecurity... a lot of things that are basically all just in my head and have little to do with her (or even her indiscretion really..).

They are not all just in your head. This is happening to you. Agreements were cheated on and it is ok to feel hurt and upset by that.

It is like you are trying to figure out how to turn the feelings "off" and disable the smoke alarm so you don't have to hear the beeping.

I am concerned for your well being. :(

I am concerned that you have a habit of blaming self for all even when things are NOT your doing or responsibility and that this habit is making you blind to the fact that you are being treated very poorly here. :(

There can be good poly and bad poly, but to me this is not even poly. It's weird cheating aftermath.

Again -- it's not like polyamory is magically cheater proof. What stops her from making whatever new poly agreements? Saying whatever you and her BF want to hear in the moment? And then does whatever later on? New lies?

Poly has a habit of shining a light on all the cracks. It is neither good nor bad. It just is. So if you are starting poly from wonky foundations? The strain of poly and trying to balance 3 people's wants and needs is going to show them up pretty fast. They are already showing up when its not even begun.

I still have heavy trepidation's that the future will mostly likely include something I'm not sure I'm ready for; but we are only 4 days into this, so I don't see how clearly I can be thinking on the topic.

All the more reason to say "No, thank you. I don't want to do poly. I have heavy trepidations, and I'm not sure I can think clearly. So NO. I am not going to agree to doing that."

If it is not a "joyous yes" for you at this time? Don't be doing it at this time.

Instead? Could give yourself the time and space you need to heal from the cheating before taking on new stuff.

There are good and bad sides to poly. Downsides? More people means more stuff to balance, more people to take into consideration. And sometimes that's just complicated and a pain in the ass. Legal problems can be a PITA too. Love might be infinite but money and time to date are not.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...next-door/201509/five-disadvantages-polyamory

A lot of of Kathy Labriola's book "Love in Abundance" is on her website as articles.

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

Anita Wagner has a lot of articles. Esp the pitfalls.

There's an excerpt listing the downsides from Deborah Anapol's book here .

Galagirl
 
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My 10,000 word response just got ate by the forum and I'm not sure I have it in me to reply that fully again.

If it is not a "joyous yes" for you at this time? Don't be doing it at this time. Instead? Could give yourself the time and space you need to heal from the cheating before taking on new challenges.

Galagirl

I obviously painted her in a terrible light, she is not currently seeing the other guy, she stopped when I asked her to and canceled the trip she was planning to see him.

we are working on "us" and each other independently, we want to get to a place where if we decided to split up, it would not be traumatic to either of us, and if we decided to stay; we will both be better people.

This event has opened up communication that never existed; we both think this is great opertunity to refocus and improve, continue learning.

I will not impose anything on her, should she want to try Poly and I am not open to it we might be at an end, but it shouldn't be a traumatic end. She might not want to try poly.

I do not think what she did is Poly, it was a factor in why she felt it was OK to do...

Wish my other post had stayed; Thanks for the response, I read it all and replied to every point, but I can quickly summarize it like this: we are very special to eachother, we are both extremely out of the box people and I will not let something like this or my illogical emotions break what we have or could potentially have. I do know the past relationship is dead, it's time to start the new one!

For now I am trying to understand why this was so devastating for me, why it shook myself confidence and made me embarrassed, my Anger/jelousy etc... If I can't figure these things out now any future conversation about Poly will be pretty pointless as well.
 
Glad the jealousy links help.

Re:


I can only speak for myself, I have been in a poly relationship for over twelve years (and it shows no signs of stopping). As for the bad sides of poly, http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell is a good example.

So, when you say you've been in a poly relationship, that sounds singular to me.

This means you have a "main" relationship and the rest are just accessories/alternates? It seems like this is how a lot of what I'm reading about happens, if I'm getting it correctly?
 
... are there many successful long term Poly relationships or is a long term relationship antithesis to Poly?

There are those who would argue that the length of a relationship is not the only measure of its success, but there are fair numbers of us who have been with our partners for a good while. People tend to be more active in forums when they are having problems/questions - once things have settled into the "new normal" there tends to be less to say.
 
There are those who would argue that the length of a relationship is not the only measure of its success, but there are fair numbers of us who have been with our partners for a good while.

I never considered a relationship just romantic, I am very financially tied to my partner as well and committed to a "its her till the end" mentality. Just trying to see how realistic this is.

Poly seems to at times have "primary" relationships, which gives me a bit of a sense of ease, I can see how she wants things I can't offer to add to her happiness, I'm still working through the "being left behind" insecurities etc... so that may be all that it is, and a hint that I need to work on my own self confidence. But that doesn't mean I want to see her unhappy in life and feel like she's missing out on the experience. If he can do things for her I can't, I shouldn't be threatened by it; I can do things he can't.

People tend to be more active in forums when they are having problems/questions - once things have settled into the "new normal" there tends to be less to say.
\

I've been active on forums for years, I do understand how a topic like this will generally gather a bit more negative than positive as that's just human nature & seeking advice can often come during a time of strife.

I think I understand the basic concept of Poly, I am now just trying to get used to it.

I've set myself a deadline; I need to decide where I'm at by my Partners birthday. I hope that I can be ok with this and I know she would be extactic if I was and told her on her birthday (end of July) we have a family trip planned to Orlando in about 15 days & we have been talking a lot about reconnecting, I think a lot of my initial shock and fears are subsiding a bit and I can think about the situation with less physical reactions.

The thought of her having sex with someone else still makes me react, but it makes no sense, and I can't stand things I don't understand so I'll keep plowing ahead on this.

One thing I've found is that there is no right way to Poly, so maybe this will be our right way.
 
Poly seems to at times have "primary" relationships, which gives me a bit of a sense of ease

There are different styles of polyamory, as you will discover in your reading. In heirarchical poly, there are primary and secondary relationships (sometimes even tertiary). Heirarchical poly is most common when a married couple transitions to poly. They may have kids together, a mortgage, bills, assets, family, friends, business etc. So, just due to pragmatics and logistics alone, the existing marriage becomes the primary relationship and other partners secondary. But beyond the pragmatic, many established married couples who are transitioning to poly, will quite understandably naturally consider the marriage arrangement to be primary in an emotional sense as well. In such cases, and in order to be fair and ethical to all concerned, it is very important that the secondary relationships are treated with well considered respect and fairness, so although they may be "secondary" as a matter of practical necessity, they should never be treated as "second class".

Others practice forms of non-heirarchical poly where no one partner has any special status in regard to the other partners. Al
 
and in order to be fair and ethical to all concerned, it is very important that the secondary relationships are treated with well considered respect and fairness, so although they may be "secondary" as a matter of practical necessity, they should never be treated as "second class".

Well, we have been together for over 6 years and I consider that we have 6 kids and 2 grand children together; (biologically we have zero children together, I have 1, the rest are hers). All the assets are in my name, but I consider them ours as well. We run a successful business off the property we live on which is expanding etc.. anyway, she has expressed that I am the main focus, and that is why she set him aside while we work on this; because I'm more important to her (I think there's some fear involved as well due to the above financial situation, something I would like to correct so she feels like staying with no hint of fear as a reason).

This makes me a bit more comfortable with what she wants because we are both heavily committed in life beyond romance/intimacy.
 
Hi H&C,

I am in a closed V, three people. None of the three of us have any outside relationships. I have been in just two relationships in my life; one mono, one poly. I am in the poly one right now.

Some people have open poly relationships, such as two people living together who also have outside relationships. Sometimes the outside relationships are secondary. Sometimes they're primary. Poly comes in many shapes and sizes.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
I'm really sorry you're going through all this.

What I'd have to add is that it looks to me you're mostly dealing with the aftermath of infidelity, with talk about polyamory just thrown on top almost as a distraction. I think other matters ought to take priority in discussion.

Right now it's really normal to be hurting and feeling confused, because infidelity tends to hurt and impact our sense of self worth like few other things can.

A very, very good book about that is Esther Perel's The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity. It's a very non-judgemental, non-prescriptive overview of what goes on in such a situation.

I think from what you're writing, despite the inevitable pain, you have a good grasp on the reality of it all, are willing to take responsibility (just mind that you don't take ALL the responsibility, like GalaGirl said: we're never in control of other people's actions), and I get the sense that you will be able to work through it all and come out the other side to a better place.

Another approach that might help, especially at times when you might be too harsh on yourself, is self-compassion: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/try_selfcompassion
 
Esther Perel

I've watched a lot of her on youtube, I don't think I need the book; I get what she is saying and it matches my situation pretty closely; except the guy that she cheated with she loves now and is afraid that she'll have to loose him. She asked me if she could call him to say good bye before he goes on a boat in alaska (she's worried its dangerous); and there's pretty much no way I can't agree to that... it just feels like a violation of the "no contact" rule, but I think if I am trying to accept Poly then this other guy WILL be in my life. Luckily I never disliked him previously, and I don't blame him for her lying to him though I do wish he was man enough to contact me and ask for clarification (he apparently told her he wanted to, but she dissuaded him).

If he means that much to her I have to respect that and work on my own feelings about it mostly; yes the hurt from the infidelity is still causing issues but I think I'm over coming it; though it would be nice to sleep a full night soon.

I think from what you're writing, despite the inevitable pain, you have a good grasp on the reality of it all, are willing to take responsibility (just mind that you don't take ALL the responsibility, like GalaGirl said: we're never in control of other people's actions), and I get the sense that you will be able to work through it all and come out the other side to a better place.

I'm not trying to shoulder the whole thing, but I do recognize I had a part in it and for myself I don't want to be that person anymore, I was depressed and wallowing in my own shit with no escape hatch in site... not fair to her at all.


Another approach that might help, especially at times when you might be too harsh on yourself, is self-compassion: https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/try_selfcompassion

I'll check this one out, probably more along the lines of what I need right now.
 
There are many ways to practice open models. That list is not definitive. It's just starting point. I think the people involved could DIY their own thing.

For now I am trying to understand why this was so devastating for me, why it shook myself confidence and made me embarrassed, my Anger/jelousy etc... If I can't figure these things out now any future conversation about Poly will be pretty pointless as well.

I think those are normal emotions to feel after a betrayal. Trust was broken. That feels pretty bad. :(

She asked me if she could call him to say good bye before he goes on a boat in alaska (she's worried its dangerous); and there's pretty much no way I can't agree to that... it just feels like a violation of the "no contact" rule,

If she cannot keep an agreement, she could just NOT agree to it from the beginning. She could say "No, I cannot do/promise that."

If she's looking for a "free pass" from you out of her agreement? You could say "I prefer you keep your "No contact" agreement."

That places the responsibility for agreement keeping back on her shoulders. You are not her parent. You don't give her "permission" for stuff. She has to make her own choices.

I think if I am trying to accept Poly then this other guy WILL be in my life.

Yes. And it can be LATER after trust with her is rebuilt.

You don't have to have him in your life like a poly V right this minute. This is NOT yet polyamory. This is "healing from cheating" first.

Luckily I never disliked him previously, and I don't blame him for her lying to him though I do wish he was man enough to contact me and ask for clarification (he apparently told her he wanted to, but she dissuaded him)

Why does he have to be "man enough" to do what he feels is the right thing to do and ignore her trying to steer him away from it? Rather than her be strong enough to do the right thing too?

Don't you have to be strong enough to stick to your own values too? To do what you feel is the right thing to do, and ignore her trying to steer you away from it? If you think the right thing to do is for people to keep their Word? Why are you not saying so? :confused:

I could be wrong... but to me it sounds like she says whatever in the moment that the partner wants to hear to get out of a sticky situation. Then later tries to wiggle out of the next thing. Personal responsibility/accountability is missing here.

  • She doesn't hold herself accountable to her Word.
  • You don't hold her accountable to her Word.
  • Neither does he.

I don't see how this is good for healing from cheating. I also don't see how this is good foundations for a poly V later on. :( This is an area that could be improved.

I mean, you can do everything you can from your end to improve yourself, your communication, your depression, whatever else you have that you think that affected the relationship from your end. But your 100% effort? Represents only 1/3 of the fuel to make a 3 people thing run. Everyone else has to do their fair share.

If you guys are really going to turn this around? Then behaviors have to change. People could be radically honest and up front.

It could start with her keeping her Word and doing "the right thing" even if not comfortable for her rather than wiggling out of it. People don't do the right thing only when convenient. Sometimes doing the right thing is a PITA!

But if she is not gonna go first? Then you could start by saying what you really think and you could start expecting her to keep her Word.
Rather than expecting yourself to give a "pass" whenever something for discernment comes up because you feel uncomfortable doing that work or feel uncomfortable telling people "no" or whatever.

Instead you could say: "I prefer you keep your "No contact" agreement."

You are not telling her what to do. You are saying what YOU prefer.

So she has to sit with it and make HER choices. She will either keep the agreement, or break it. But she cannot pretend she doesn't know where you stand on it.

Then you see how things are with her more clearly. You can determine whether or not you can trust her at her Word now and moving forward. Or if it is just more of same.

On your end? I suggest you do not make any NEW poly V agreements until you see she can keep other agreements. No point in making new agreements that just are gonna get tossed out the window. Spare yourself the grief.

I wonder if you are conflict avoidant? If so, that might be something to consider putting on your list for personal improvements.

I hope you guys are able to fix things and move forward in the way that you hope.

Galagirl
 
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If she's asking your thoughts or asking you for a "free pass" out of her agreement? You could say "I prefer you keep your "No contact" agreement."

That places the responsibility for agreement keeping back on her shoulders. You are not her parent. You don't give her "permission" for stuff. She has to make her own choices.

I guess it could be seen that way, I saw it more as she was worried about someone she loves going out into the ocean in alaska where a lot of people do die.

She asked me if she could call him before he went out; our previous "agreement" was just me asking her not to talk to him while we worked this out; he's physically not on this island until October or so which confuses me... on one hand I think it helps us, on the other it lessens her willingness to give up what she already couldn't have currently.



You don't have to have him in your life like a poly V right this minute. This is NOT yet polyamory. This is "healing from cheating" first.

We both agree, he is thousands of miles away until October, I have asked her to stop talking to him and I believe she has completely, I even asked him to respect that I asked her not to talk to him, and he agreed.

It seems like I'm the one with the issues; and I'm working through my feelings now.

Why does he have to be "man enough" to do what he feels is the right thing to do and ignore her trying to steer him away from it?

ok, human enough... I guess that's a guy mentality (bro code etc..)

Don't you have to be that too? Do what you feel is the right thing to do, and ignore her trying to steer you away it? If you think she's violating the "no contact" agreement and you think the right thing to do is for people to keep their Word? Why are you not saying so and ignoring her trying to wiggle out of it?

I don't think she's violating anything, we didn't have an agreement, I just asked her not to talk to him while we work through this.

She was sitting in our bed crying and I asked her what was wrong, she said she really misses him and is worried that the last thing she said to him before he gets on the boat might be the last thing ever... I do feel like that's a bit ridiculous; I don't htink I'm being manipulated or lied to; I think she loves him as much as she loves me, but in a different way.

To me it sounds like she says whatever in the moment that the partner wants to hear to get out of a sticky situation. Then later tries to wiggle out of the next thing. Personal responsibility/accountability is missing here.

She doesn't hold herself accountable to her Word.

You don't hold her accountable to her Word.

Neither does he.

I don't feel like there was ever a "word" that needs to be held accountable for, I'm setting up boundrys, not rules. I told her lstnight that she could call him when ever she wanted, and I was serious; but I also told her that I would prefer it if she would not talk to him while we worked on us.

She will dramatically react if she thinks she is being controlled, she has a very bad time with that; but I've never been the controlling type.


But your 100% effort? Represents only 1/3 of the fuel to make a 3 people thing run. Everyone else has to do their fair share.

We both are putting a lot of effort in, I don't know what the other is doing, don't really care; even if he is involved later on I don't see him as having much to do with me and her other than it's something that she wants that is quite reasonable logically.



You could say:

"I prefer you keep your "No contact" agreement."

She would keep it, but what would the gain there be? How would that help the situation?

She knows where I stand.

You can determine whether or not you can trust her at her Word now and moving forward. Or if it is just more of same.
I think your projecting someone else onto her, there is no "same" I've never had a reason to not trust her except this one thing. She is my best friend and truely cares for me and what is best for me.

On your end? I suggest you do not make any NEW poly V agreements until you see she can keep other agreements. No point in making new agreements that just are gonna get tossed out the window. Spare yourself the grief.

Galagirl

I still feel like I haven't made ANY Poly agreements what soever, I have not told her how seriously I am thinking about this and exploring the concept because I still have trouble separating the infidelity from Poly in talks with her; but I'm become more calm about the situation.


I believe we only have 2 powers I have absolute control over in this world, and it's Forgiveness and Acceptance.

I could let this ruin my life, or I could let it change my perspective. Vindictiveness is a waste of time and energy, and being resentful is just the cousin of vindictiveness.
 
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We both agree, he is thousands of miles away until October, I have asked her to stop talking to him and I believe she has completely, I even asked him to respect that I asked her not to talk to him, and he agreed.*

Then he's not expecting contact.

If she does contact him, he could say “We are supposed to be no contact til October.”

She asked me if she could call him to say good bye before he goes on a boat in alaska (she's worried its dangerous); and there's pretty much no way I can't agree to that...*it just feels like a violation of the "no contact" rule,

I don't think she's violating anything, we didn't have an agreement, I just asked her not to talk to him while we work through this.

I don't feel like there was ever a "word" that needs to be held accountable for, I'm setting up boundrys, not rules

You seem to give mixed messages. That might be part of the problem.

If I am getting confused reading these things trying to understand what is going on? What is a firm agreement and what is not? It might be possible that your people get confused too. If that is happening? Then I suggest you be firmer in your communication.

What makes something an agreement to you? If you made a request, and she agreed to it and he agreed to it? As far as I am concerned, that's a 3 people agreement then. The plan was no contact with him until October so (you + her) have some time apart to work some things out. All agreed, so all three could hold it up.

That is what I mean by keeping one's Word. Someone says they are going to do something, and then they do it.

I am not suggesting you go to the land of resentfulness or vindictiveness.

I am suggesting you work on rebuilding trust with her. And that part of how you do that rebuilding could be by considering doing these things:

  • When agreements are made -- you hold each other accountable. If exceptions are acceptable, clarify what those are at the time of agreement making
  • Clearing up behavior expectations so everyone is on the same page.
  • Improving your communication style so there aren't mixed messages

You could choose not to, but I think these behaviors might help.

Again, I hope you guys are able to fix things and move forward in the way that you hope.

Galagirl
 
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Then he's not expecting contact.

If she does contact him, he could say “We are supposed to be no contact til October.”

I will contact him first at the end of the month, I asked her that if she really felt she needed to contact him to wait until then. (I think compromise is the best thing when trying to work with someone, especially if they have any trepidation's).


You seem to give mixed messages. That might be part of the problem.

I don't doubt I am, I'm still a bit confused myself and feeling a bit split over this.

If I am getting confused reading these things trying to understand what is going on? What is a firm agreement and what is not? It is possible your people could get confused too.

I have a hard time demanding a firm agreement, I do not want to be controlling or forceful; I'd rather she CHOOSE me.

I suggest you be firmer in your communication. What makes something an agreement to you? If you made a request, and she agreed to it and he agreed to it, as far as I am concerned, that's a 3 people agreement. The plan was no contact with him until October so (you + her) have some time apart to work some things out. All three could hold it up.

I think I should bring this up, your right; but I don't know... what does me taking a hard stance on this achieve? If she asks me something and I agree, that's the whole point right? Aren't we suppose to feel free enough to express even what we know might trigger the other person to feel hurt (not that we are TRYING to hurt them)? I just don't see how "sticking to my guns" will be helpful, especially right now when we are rebooting our relationship.

That is what I mean by keeping one's Word. Someone says they are going to do something, and then they do it.

I am not suggesting you go to the land of resentfulness or vindictiveness.

I am suggesting you work on rebuilding trust with her. And that part of how you do that rebuilding could be by considering doing these things:

  • you holding each other accountable to any agreements made. If exceptions are acceptable, clarify what those are at the time of agreement making
  • clearing up behavior expectations so everyone is on the same page
  • improving your communication style so there aren't mixed messages

You could choose not to, but I think these behaviors might help.

Again, I hope you guys are able to fix things and move forward in the way that you hope.

Galagirl

I do understand what your saying, but I also need to encourage her trust that she can be honest with me, we both have rebuilding to do.

I am not even solid on "the way I hope"; but I think I've decided to give Poly a try with her (and, i guess, him.). I just need time for us to rebuild so I can feel we have something strong and solid again that will be added to, not distracted from. Right now when I think about it I would want to put on a ridiculous amount of boundaries that are a bit unreasonable when we all live on an island that is 28 miles long and 7 miles wide... I almost don't feel like I have a choice, when he moves back... would I just become resented because I'm holding on to a belief structure I don't fully agree with and forcing it on her?

I remember what a new relationship is like, I know exactly what she's missing, I guess maybe I'm missing it too. We sort of have that right now with each other, we stayed up till 2 am last night talking about our first sexual experiences and how funny young people are, our past relationships and how each one affected us as a person... a conversation we never really had before but probably REALLY should have.
 
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