Needing some help in dealing with this

FatMouse

New member
Hello. I'm new to the forum and also sort of new to this whole thing.

I'm currently in a relationship with two guys who I love to pieces. My first relationship lasted nearly 5 years ago, the second started around September last year.

My first mate confessed he was into this. I wasn't very content at first, but I was having a hard time. The guy who ended up being my second mate now, he's been a really close friend for many years. I fell for him hard a long time ago and kept it to myself for many reasons, one of them was because I was taken.

I reached a point in where I started to feel very depressed over it. I loved them both, but it was painful as hell for me to make a decision. My first mate, then, told me that I knew what his views were, implying I could still ask my friend out. We all had a group conversation and, in the end, I accepted the proposition. My friend, surprisingly, was open minded enough to accept as well.

Now here's the thing. My first mate brought something up last night. He mentioned something about having a girl who maybe (keyword: maybe) has a crush on him. This lead to a conversation about what if someone fell for him and what he should do. It didn't go anywhere because we just talked about the possibility, there was no yes or no (yet).

This possibility kinda bugs me. I don't know if I'm okay seeing my mate getting intimate with someone else... but at the same time, I feel it's unfair not to allow him, when he has allowed me to date my friend. Two people have agreed with this too.

I'm not used at all to this sort of relationship, so I can't help but feeling that I've failed at something if he's considering dating other people when the chance appears. I can't help but feeling that he might find someone who provides what I can't provide, which would lead him to like me less. I appreciate the fact that he talks to me about this, but the whole talk makes me feel inferior, insecure, unloved, sad.

I also tend to be very jealous... I don't know how that'd work. I don't know if I'd be able to control my anger if he says "I love you" to some other girl. At the same time, I love him to death, so I don't think I want to leave him and become monogamous again. The thought of that depresses me.

I need advice. I don't know what to think about all this.

Note: I am NOT mad at my mate at all. I appreciate his honesty and the fact that we can communicate so well. I am just a very insecure person with a number of issues who was used to a certain lifestyle. I just need help in how to deal with this... new thing.
 
Sounds like you and I are feeling some of the same things. Everything is good when your partner says, "Sure! Date someone!" But when they do themselves or in your case just mention it, it feels like the world just turned upside down.

I'm only about a week into dealing with the idea myself, and my E has only had one make out session with someone. Ive had horrible dark days, great days, and normal days. It's getting better all the time, but I'm not out of the woods.

Hang in there, communicate a lot. You'll get there.
 
The best advice that I can give you about this sort of polyfidelitous relationship is talk it out. Express your opinions, emotions and feelings about how you feel about your first or second mate possibly adding someone else into the relationship. You need to disucss it as well as explain the costs of if he decides it. Clearly, the both of them love you, but my major question is, are you in a poly-triad or poly-vee. Depending on the type of relationship can explain different options and answers.
 
Perhaps I missed something GSAS082612, but I didn't get the impression that the OP was in a triad or that there was any agreement made for polyfidelity. I agree with the rest of your post, though; talk is good!
 
my major question is, are you in a poly-triad or poly-vee. Depending on the type of relationship can explain different options and answers.

Umm... Can you maybe explain what that means? I seriously have no idea about the terms used here :(

We sometimes talk about this. I think that if he suddenly came across someone who he falls for (let's say a friend) as I fell for my friend and said person reciprocates their feelings... I guess it wouldn't bug me as much, because things would be more genuine, and I don't want him to feel as miserable as I was when I felt I had to choose between him and my friend.

Now it would bug me a lot if he suddenly started to look for women. That would be a different story.

I hope my post makes sense.
 
Sounds like you want to be in a CLOSED "V" shape thing with you as the hinge person.

Sounds like at this time, you are NOT open to an "N" shape thing where your BF and you BOTH have another sweetie so BOTH of you are shared hinge people.

If you are not up for it, just say so honestly.

It is not about "fairness" like other people are cookies. You have one so... he gets one. It is about what you are willing to be in and can do WELL. If you are not willing, do not play in that shape. Better to be CLEAR about your wants, needs, and limits.

If you do not want to? Say so.

If you need to settle in here to THIS new normal first before contemplating other stuff? Say so.

If it is a soft limit, that could change over time say so.
If it is a hard limit, that will NEVER change, say so.
If it is an unknown limit, but still a limit, say so.

You sound like you are just getting used to a 3 people polymath configuration. Adding another player is changing up the polymath and changing the number of "mini relationships" inside the greater polyship.

I sure as heck would not want that right away. Stress is enough one bit at a time! It does not seem "fair" to my health to be piling on more crazy stress. A new person in the family ranks a 39 on the stress scale.

It may seem like just (BF 1 + Other) and only 39 hit points for stress.

But wait... Other has to get along with

  • Other <---> Other (If they are in your polyship, now you have to deal with how well they know themselves and how honest they are with themselves because they are part of your world now.)

  • Other <--> You (Communication arrow = Do they communicate well with you? You to them?)
  • Other <--> (You + BF1)
  • Other <-->(You + BF2)

  • Other <--> BF1
  • Other <-->(BF1+ You)
  • Other <-->(BF1 + BF2)

  • Other <-->BF 2
  • Other <--> (BF2 + you)
  • Other <-->(BF2 + BF1)

  • Other <---> (You + BF 1 + BF2)

  • (You + BF 1 + BF 2 + Other) <--- the whole polyship gang here working as a team

"Other" does not have to be everyone's lover. Does not even have to be everyone's friend. But does Other GET ALONG decently with the other people in this polyship? Basic friendly and polite?

Even when making the repeat layer ones grey so they do not count? That's 9 mini relationships inside the potentiual 4 person polyship with "Other" in it. There are other mini relationships inside the bigger polyship that do not have Other in it. (You to yourself, you to BF1 alone, etc)

But just those where OTHER does appear? Nine. 9 x 39 stress hit points? Welcome to the land of 351 potential points if ALL those tiers are wobbly. Yay. Welcome the polyship health to the land of stress induced illness! :eek:

Now that's a worst case scenario. The ideal would be NO problems at all. 0 stress hit points. The reality is somewhere in between that range 0-351. Your polyship could work to reduce stress so that the polyship can take on the weight of adding a new player.

You are there, you know what your reality is and what the actual stress number could be if you ask your people where they stand and how they feel about it. You guys determine what you can afford to pay for the price of admission if you choose to Open again to include another player.

351 potentional risk points is enough of a price tag to take a pause to reflect and think it out REALLY WELL before going there. It can be done. But make sure ALL your players are fit for it and up for it.

WHAT are we taking on? Are we fit enough to go there?
WHEN could we go there to minimize stress?
HOW could we go there to minimize stress?

Everyone is responsible for their own well being.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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This sounds so complicated...



It doesn't have to be. Lots of people manage without that "points" system or whatever it was.

Things can be as simple or as complicated as you make them.
 
"You get two, I get two"

This is something he told me. And he mentioned I was being hypocritical when I got upset that he might consider adding someone else. I asked him and he said he would be unhappy if he fell for someone and had to choose or reject them.

When I got with my friend, he said that a three way relationship was okay, that it would work just fine. Not too long ago he said that he was willing to accept more, but he didn't tell me for fear of me getting angry and dumping him, so he lied to me.

I showed this concern of his second partner having more partners, their partners having more partners and having a load of people involved, and he said that not all people are into that. My friend is not the kind who would date anyone else besides me, so I don't know what to believe.

I'm confused, can anyone explain me how the hell this works? I'm starting to feel stressed out again.
 
It doesn't have to be complicated. My point in listing all that is do NOT be afraid to say "NO, I do not want to Open again to include another person. This is plenty overwhelming as it is with 3 people in here!"

If more people would just own it and speak it straight up from the beginning? Then they wouldn't suffer later because they were too afraid to speak up and just put the brakes on it. They went against their own willingness and their own best healths for fear of "seeming selfish."

Well, it is what it is. THIS is what you can handle AT THIS TIME. No more, no less. Here is the limit right now.

YOU are responsible for your own well being. So just say no. "I'm happiest as the V in a closed polyship at this time. I do not want to be in a 4 person polyship. Too stressy to me. I'm not willing at this time. I am not ready at this time. "

There. Done. He can then make his next choice based on that information. You sent it off to his desk. Until the memo comes back on to your desk, it isn't your problem any more until it is your problem again.

I think you guys could sort out what you want for open relationship models. Talk it out.

It seems part of the reason you feel overwhelmed could be that you guys did not talk enough about the HOW to be in polyship together before jumping in. Could sort that out too. http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf

Hope you feel better soon.

GG
 
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I just hope he understands...

When he told me he would be unhappy if he's not able to date, I felt guilty. So yeah...
 
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When he told me he would be unhappy if he's not able to date, I felt guilty.

What about asking him to hold off dating others for RIGHT NOW, while you guys address some of your insecurities about the idea? Therefore you are not saying NO forever. Changing the status quo is never easy and can take some getting used to before your mentally ready to face it.

What are you afraid of? Do you even know? So many times just the thought of something sets off all our alarms and sends us into panic, but once we have time to calmly dissect it, there is really one or two items at the heart of it. Granted, they can be MAJOR factors, but once identified, solutions can be found to minimize or alleviate your insecurity.

Is it really that you can't share or is it more a fear of if you do, it will now be a competition and he will choose her?
 
What about asking him to hold off dating others for RIGHT NOW, while you guys address some of your insecurities about the idea? Therefore you are not saying NO forever. Changing the status quo is never easy and can take some getting used to before your mentally ready to face it.

What are you afraid of? Do you even know? So many times just the thought of something sets off all our alarms and sends us into panic, but once we have time to calmly dissect it, there is really one or two items at the heart of it. Granted, they can be MAJOR factors, but once identified, solutions can be found to minimize or alleviate your insecurity.

Is it really that you can't share or is it more a fear of if you do, it will now be a competition and he will choose her?

I didn't want to say no forever. I wanted to wait until I'm ready to deal with the idea. All of this came so sudden and unexpectedly.

Like I said before, he once told me he was okay with just me dating two people and that was it. Now he changed his speech, told me that he lied and came up with this, caught me off guard. I'm all conflicted and my mind is a mess because of this. I don't know what to do.

I don't even know if I have insecurities. I don't think I would have any if his other love was genuine and not just a woman he found. I am just not ready yet. This happened all so suddenly, during a time in my life where I'm having a load of stress at home, a load of things to sort out in my mind. I was not expecting this kind of discussion with him. At all.

I swear I do not know how I would react. I am extremely confused. I don't know if it's the fact that I can't share. I don't know. I only know I'm not comfortable with the idea, I don't know if I will be later or not... I'm just not ready. I wish he would understand that.
 
Like I said before, he once told me he was okay with just me dating two people and that was it. Now he changed his speech, told me that he lied and came up with this, caught me off guard. I'm all conflicted and my mind is a mess because of this. I don't know what to do.

Of course you are confused an conflicted. He lied and broke trust. All the more reason to STOP and say NO. Give yourself the time you need to get calmer and get a handle on yourself. Then deal with you two getting to a more stable place also.

You guys have trust rebuilding to do. Who wants to be building new things on a shaky foundation? :confused: That's not healthy.

He does not have to understand it right now. (Be nice if he could get there though, I agree.)

Right now? He has to HEAR you and RESPECT YOUR LIMIT. You could state your position loud and clear:

"I am at my limit. I am not ready at this time. I am too stressed to take this on board right now. So the answer is NO. I do not have a time frame for when that might change, so treat it like a hard limit "No -- never, not like this with broken trust."

And he can either

a) Deal with the news, process his feelings, and treat you respectfully because he wants to Open again with your goodwill and your blessing. He could wait til time passes a bit and you can both approach this calmly and do the work to rebuild trust and prepare to Open again in a healthy way for him to be able to date.

b)Deal with the news, process his feelings, and treat you disrespectfully because he just wants this and does not care about doing it with your goodwill and blessing on board. He goes on to RUSH you to make decisions you do not want to make when you are stressed out.​

Then YOU can choose the next choice:

a) He treats you well, consistently? You stay. You get comfortable. You grow more trust. You MIGHT change that to a soft limit. You might give it the green light. Only the passing of time and your trust in him will answer that. You can't know the end of the story before reading the book.

b) He treats you badly and without concern for your well being? You leave. It will hurt, but better get out of the line of fire than try to polyship with a person who doesn't care about his poly partners' well being.​

Plain and simple, hon. Your stress level is telling you a MESSAGE. Listen rather than shut down. Or if you shut down, that's the big red alert that you are not just AT LIMIT here. You are BEYOND YOUR LIMIT. Put the brakes on.

Everyone has to hold their own emotional baggage. Let him be responsible for him. You be responsible for you. See if you can talk and sort it out.

GG
 
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Now he changed his speech, told me that he lied and came up with this, caught me off guard. I'm all conflicted and my mind is a mess because of this. I don't know what to do.

I heard a definition for "intimacy" at one point that I really liked. "Having the ability to hurt someone and not doing it". In a relationship setting this would be akin to telling my loved one something painful or humiliating to me, trusting that they would not post it on Face Book the next day, or bringing it up during an argument at some later date. I have given them something they can hurt me with and they (hopefully) have demonstrated that they will not hurt me with it - thus building intimacy between us.

Dishonesty is an intimacy killer (if we can continue to use the definition above). If I cannot depend on someone being honest with me then I am much less likely to share delicate issues with them. Will they hurt me with them? I don't know anymore.

It also sounds like you guys need to have an unambiguous conversation about how you would like this to play out. Be precise, don't make sweeping generalizations, and say what you actually mean. All of this guessing and hoping is going to end poorly.
 
@ Gala

He said he didn't tell me at first because I was stressed out back then and he didn't want to make it worse or cause me to dump him out of anger. Do you think it might have been a (failed) attempt at protecting me and our relationship? Just wondering.

And thank you for your advice. He's not around at the moment, but we're planing to have a talk later. I hope it goes well.
 
... but my major question is, are you in a poly-triad or poly-vee. Depending on the type of relationship can explain different options and answers.

Umm... Can you maybe explain what that means? I seriously have no idea about the terms used here :(

FatMouse - GSA is asking if your "second mate" is also romantically involved with your "first mate". In a "triad" all three people are involved romantically/sexually with each other. The stereotypical example is the couple (usually straight guy/ bi gal) that is looking for a girlfriend for BOTH of them. In a "Vee" two people are involved with "hinge" person but not with each other (I get the impression that this is your configuration) - this is my configuration, I have a husband and boyfriend, but they are not boyfriends to each other (although mine happen to be best friends as well) - I am the "hinge" of the Vee and they are the "arms".

Hope that helps.

JaneQ
 
Ooh, I see. Thank you for the explanation!

No, my mates are not involved with each other in that way. They know each other and sometimes talk, but that's all.
 
He said he didn't tell me at first because I was stressed out back then and he didn't want to make it worse or cause me to dump him out of anger. Do you think it might have been a (failed) attempt at protecting me and our relationship? Just wondering.

So your relationship is a delicate flower that will fall over with the first wind? Why be in such a flimsy foundation relationship then? :confused:

Or he thinks YOU are a delicate flower who can't take Life as it comes?

I suspect it is more him -- he didn't want to have to deal with it. From fear, from shirky, from whatever. For me a "soft lie" is still a lie. It's just not being honest no matter how you slice it. :( Now how can you polyship in a healthy way with someone you cannot trust?

Is that how you want to live your life in polyshipping? In a flimsy foundation with an untrustworthy partner? That's not choosing to Open at a time where you are as strong, and in as healthy a way as you could be Opening.

I'm not trying to be mean or the voice of doom here. Just try to keep it real over there. Could sort yourselves out. Could not proceed any further until these things are addressed to satisfactory conclusion before adding even more people to the mix.

You can polyship with whatever number all of you feel is best for your situation but could do it at a pace all of you can handle. Everyone has a polysaturation point.

How about he "protects" the relationship trust from taking dings in future by him choosing not to lie? And you could receive information in a way that creates safe pace for it to be shared. No shooting the messenger. Work on better trust, healthier conflict resolution. Communication.

Or if he is not worth it and you get too little return on your investment here -- walk away.

Only you know what it is over there. I hope your talk reaches a conclusion for you one way or the other.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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I think we are getting to an agreement. That's a good thing.

I asked him what the deal was. He told me he is not going to actively look for a partner. He said he wants to have a space open, in case someone who is dear to him (as my friend is to me) appears. That makes more sense to me.

I said it was all cool. I don't mind it. I only asked him to just give me some time. I said I was not ready for more people just yet, I still need to get adjusted to the whole situation (I started this sort of relationship on September last year. Not a very long time, imo) and I need to have my mind clearer. I'm stressed about a number of other things, so relationship problems are the last thing I need. He understood.

The lie problem ended up being a big misunderstanding. We talked it out too. I asked him to tell me about whatever happens and he agreed.

I guess it's all cool now (?)
 
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