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  #31  
Old 08-06-2014, 11:57 AM
Memorandum Memorandum is offline
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My goodness you have the elitist type of ace attitude. I was debating even calling that out. Lucky because you're ace? Please get over yourself. You find it hard to relate, I have to ask why you even bothered with the mini series tirade.

I'm ace but come on .
I'd have just left it alone if I was that bent over the issue.
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2014, 12:24 PM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Elitist attitude?? Not at all. Whatever gives you that impression?

If it's "elitist" to consider oneself lucky not to be in a situation that creates unneccessary harm to oneself and others, I'd say anyone who isn't "elitist" in that way has massive self-worth issues and should seek professional help (maybe medical, of the antidepressant kind). Luckily, the overwhelming majority of people of this planet are mentally healthy enough to be "elitist" in this way. (Do you prefer to live in a country that allows you to express your opinions publicly on an internet messageboard? If so, you're totally an elitist by your own standards. )

Not being ace would ruin my personal life quality - that's a plain and simple fact, just accept it and get over it. That fact does not make me in any way better than any other people. Like, at all. Maybe you should stop looking for things to get offended by that nobody ever said or implied at all?


The main reason why I posted in this thread is because I disagree with the idea that the view "penis = icky" were inherently misogynistic. I still don't see the logic behind that, and thus consider the statement wrong.

Having penile sex with a woman while holding that view - that, indeed, is misogynistic, and that certainly is one of the problems with heterosexual guys going for OPPs.


Oh, btw, just for the record... I consider myself sex-positive. I guess your mind just got blown, eh?

Last edited by InsaneMystic; 08-06-2014 at 12:29 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-06-2014, 04:12 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Come to think about it, we generally allow people to have their own sexual/romantic tastes for whatever reason and don't badger them about it. Am I gay? Then people (hopefully) won't ask me what's wrong with my psyche that repels me from having sex with women. Am I into a certain kind of kink? People (hopefully) won't ask me why I'm so obsessed about it, not even if I wouldn't enjoy sex without it.

So I guess if someone has, shall we say, a thing for avoiding penises, then that's their sexual preference and I hope we wouldn't treat it like a mental illness or something. To each his own, people have all kinds of "strange" and that's fine as long as they respect each other's autonomy and treat each other nicely and fairly. We're obviously not obligated to want *every* kind of sex with *everyone.*

And I guess you could go a step farther and say, maybe someone has a thing for their *own* penis, plus a thing for completely avoiding all other penises, and maybe that's a sexual preference to them and thus not mine to question. It would be hard to prove that someone's "OPP fetish" was an "OPP hang-up."

Of course we can say that *if* something (be it an OPP or whatever) is misogynistic then it's symptomatic of some kind of (mild to severe) psychological problem. We could also say that if someone has a "thing" for OPP dynamics, then they should give their potential partners fair warning about that ahead of time.

That's all I'm sure about at the moment.
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  #34  
Old 08-06-2014, 05:00 PM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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@kdt... Well put, one of those moments when I wish there was a "like" button.

The one problem I still see there is the question how someone can respect a partner's autonomy and freedom while making rules that limit their choice in other partners and behavioral expression. That's what just rubs me wrong about OPP arrangements (and veto rights, and heck, monogamy in general); you interfere with the partner's personal choice of how they wish to lead their life, thus impeding their rights. I'd see myself consistently preferring to just break up instead of imposing limits on a partner - and vice versa, if a partner tried to impose limits on me, I'd remind them that they're always free to leave if they can't/won't accept my behavior.

I couldn't deal well with the sheer feeling of guilt about making someone sacrifice a part of their life for the sake of keeping up our relationship... if that's how it would be for them, I'd feel that they're clearly better off without me. If the sitch was vice versa, I would definitely consider myself better off without them in my life.

I guess I'm pretty much at an extreme end of the autonomy vs. symbiosis scale... and it's not the symbiotic one. Even as partners, maybe especially as partners, I feel that everyone should stick to their own business and not meddle in that of others.
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  #35  
Old 08-06-2014, 05:19 PM
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Re:
Quote:
"The one problem I still see there is the question of how someone can respect a partner's autonomy and freedom while making rules that limit their choice in other partners and behavioral expression."
Well, I would say that in that case, they're not respecting their partner's autonomy. Though it might be worth noting that no one can really limit someone else's choices -- unless they use some kind of physical force. What one can do is refrain from saying stuff like, "I forbid you to do this or that," instead saying something like, "I can't promise you I'll always be in this relationship with you, but I can promise I'll honor your freedom and autonomy." The only kind of rules we should try to impose on each other are stuff like, "Don't rape, don't mug, don't steal, don't murder, etc."

OPP's seem excusable to me as long as fair warning is given about them ahead of time, and as long as they're then implemented not as a rule, but as a condition for continuing that particular relationship. "MPP's [M for Multiple] aren't my cup of tea, so if you want an MPP you can have one with my blessing, but we'll still have to transition from a romance back into a platonic friendship."

But as you indicated, some people are relatively symbiotic and would rather make some sacrifices (small or great) to maintain the (otherwise enjoyable) relationship. [shrug] That's part of people's right to freedom too. They get to decide how much (if anything) they're willing to give up for a relationship.
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  #36  
Old 08-06-2014, 05:37 PM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
[...] as long as they're then implemented not as a rule, but as a condition for continuing that particular relationship. "MPP's [M for Multiple] aren't my cup of tea, so if you want an MPP you can have one with my blessing, but we'll still have to transition from a romance back into a platonic friendship."
Yup, that actually sounds perfectly fine to me.

I'd think at this point it stops being a rule within the relationship, but a condition to be fulfilled to even be in that ship in the first place.. but that may well be just a case of the old "potayto, potahto" depending on what viewpoint one comes from.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
But as you indicated, some people are relatively symbiotic and would rather make some sacrifices (small or great) to maintain the (otherwise enjoyable) relationship. [shrug] That's part of people's right to freedom too. They get to decide how much (if anything) they're willing to give up for a relationship.
Oh, they are, and I don't want to interfere with it. I'll just make it crystal clear to "symbionts" that they have no chance in Hell getting me on board of the kind of ship they prefer, so in return I won't try to coax them aboard an Autonomy Class Vessel. *geekily running with the metaphor*

As long as they abide by the rule of "count me out of that", they are free to do whatever they please, and should remain to be so without my or anyone else's interference.
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  #37  
Old 08-06-2014, 06:28 PM
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Sounds like a plan, Stan.
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