Moving toward equanimity in a triad - What is your experience?

polycouple

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Hi all,

I am just curious to hear if anyone has had similar experiences to me. You can read this whole long story or just skip to the last paragraph....

I am currently in a relationship with two wonderful people who prior to meeting me were a swinger couple for four years. Within the first few months of meeting I fell in love with both of them, and lucky for me, they both fell in love with me as well! I introduced poly to them. Tom, the male in the relationship, was familiar and slightly experienced with concepts of freelove and multiple partner relationships. Sarah, on the other hand, was not. While she fell deeply in love with me, she still has reservations, fears, insecurities when it comes to the topic of being in a equal relationship together.

She worries primarily about losing Tom, not being enough for him, or that he will enjoy his time with me more than with her if we have freedom to express ourselves without limits. Basically, she is worried about being left out. So right now there are restrictions on Tom and I as to what we can do when Sarah is at work. She is not comfortable with us being intimate in any way really, aside from kissing maybe. She has unrealistic expectations sometimes about wanting to know the details about every conversation we have, and get's hurt and defensive if she learns that we have discussed something without her knowledge. Rather than recognizing that it is difficult and frustrating to have to essentially report out to her every day, she believes that we intentionally withhold information from her. She also does not want Tom and I to go out, meet friends together when she is not there. Tom and I both feel no need to limit Sara despite the fact that she feels the need to impose boundaries. She has ultimate freedom and control in this relationship. I'm happy that at least one person in this relationship can be without limits, though at times I find it frustrating that I have to hold back, and be monitored in this relationship.

On an intellectual level Sara recognizes that the relationship is unfair at the moment. She is genuinely trying to be comfortable with the idea of having a relationship that is not dictated by her fears and insecurities. There has been some great upward movement in this regard thus far. For instance, Tom and I no longer have to ask permission to meet up when she is at work, or to catch a bite to eat. We simply have to make sure that she is aware. The other day she told Tom to give me a kiss for her while she was at work. She is really making an effort. She also seems to be processing the dynamic of the relationship on both an intellectual and emotional level. The other day she told me that she thinks she might be ready for this to be an equal relationship sooner than she originally thought, though when I probed her, she could not come up with any rough time frame.

So I guess my question is, has anyone been in a situation where a lover was able to overcome insecurities, fears, jealousies, to enjoy the free exchange of love that poly can offer. Or am I just being naive? If I can't eventually be an equal participant in this relationship then it just won't last. This worries me because I love them deeply, and I truly feel that the relationship between the three of us will be a positive and transformational experience for us all (it already has been). I am viewing this as a transitional stage. That is what I tell myself in order to rationalize being in a dynamic that I feel marginalizes me.

What's been your experience? Has anyone had an equilateral triadic relationship work between three people, two of which were committed to one another first?

Thanks for your stories and feedback!
 
Hi all,

What's been your experience? Has anyone had an equilateral triadic relationship work between three people, two of which were committed to one another first?

Thanks for your stories and feedback!

I mighty not have the best news for ya. In the time i have been poly I have never seen a true equilateral triad. All of them I have seen are usually more scalene. And past that, sometimes even fluid with peoples roles changing consistenltly.

Some people need those roles to stay comfortable. Primary secondary is used in a lot of poly relationships because it's give people comfort. That's a tough thing to overcome.

To your question on insecurities lots of people have overcome them. With time and consistency. Insecurities can be rooted in something as simple as fear of losing time, or a side they thought was unique to them. Lots of reasons, lots of excuses. Can you ever get rid of them, I dont know. I still have them. Can you learn to focus on the reality instead of what you create in your head. I think that's really the key to overcoming insecurities.

Best of luck
 
Hullo!

Sorry to hear you are struggling. I might need a little bit more background in order to give any useful input. Is it that Tom and Sara are the more established couple? In what circumstances did your relationship begin? How long have you been together? What are your living circumstances? Is Sara the only one working?

My triady situation is very new but everyone is very committed to making it work. "My" couple :) has sought out a third for years, so that creates a different set of pressures than if you stumble upon a triad situation accidentally. Still, I think the strain that is caused by one couple/person in the triad wanting to progress faster than the others is pretty universal. It is not a sign of doom to struggle with this, IMHO, if Sara is willing to try. Is there any history between you and Tom that would explain Sara's insecurities?
 
I mighty not have the best news for ya. In the time i have been poly I have never seen a true equilateral triad. All of them I have seen are usually more scalene. And past that, sometimes even fluid with peoples roles changing consistenltly.

Some people need those roles to stay comfortable. Primary secondary is used in a lot of poly relationships because it's give people comfort. That's a tough thing to overcome.

To your question on insecurities lots of people have overcome them. With time and consistency. Insecurities can be rooted in something as simple as fear of losing time, or a side they thought was unique to them. Lots of reasons, lots of excuses. Can you ever get rid of them, I dont know. I still have them. Can you learn to focus on the reality instead of what you create in your head. I think that's really the key to overcoming insecurities.

Best of luck

Thanks for being honest. I hope we can overcome the primary/secondary distinction.

That's a good point about the "focusing on reality." I talk to her a lot about "reality checking." It helps a lot.
 
Hullo!

Sorry to hear you are struggling. I might need a little bit more background in order to give any useful input. Is it that Tom and Sara are the more established couple? In what circumstances did your relationship begin? How long have you been together? What are your living circumstances? Is Sara the only one working?

Yes, Tom and Sarah are the established couple. They have been living together for several years. We have only been together for several months. The relationship moved extremely fast because we live very close and see each other almost on a daily basis. Sarah is not the only one working. In fact, all three of us work and go to school. We are all super busy. That is why having the restrictions is particularly difficult because although we see each other daily, the interactions can be short, or we are busy studying/working. Of course, things are much better now that school is over for the summer for Sara and I. The more time we get to spend together the easier things get because we bond, and she begins to trust that I am in this relationship because I love BOTH of them, not just Tom.

My triady situation is very new but everyone is very committed to making it work. "My" couple :) has sought out a third for years, so that creates a different set of pressures than if you stumble upon a triad situation accidentally. Still, I think the strain that is caused by one couple/person in the triad wanting to progress faster than the others is pretty universal. It is not a sign of doom to struggle with this, IMHO, if Sara is willing to try. Is there any history between you and Tom that would explain Sara's insecurities?

Sarah and Tom were always looking for a girlfriend. Because of this, I was originally surprised when the insecurities and rules started to pop up (I know, naive). Then I later learned that Sara meant really just a friend with benefits that they could go out with and have fun with now and then. They didn't mean a legitimate loving, intimate kind of girlfriend. Apparently, it was never Sara's intent to fall in love, or for Tom to fall in love. Sara was the first one to drop the L-word. She is completely comfortable with the two of us being in love (her and I). It is the fact that Tom and I are love as well that causes the insecurities. There is no history between Tom and I, but there is history with Tom. He has a past of infidelity with his past long term relationships. Of course, I think this has a lot to do with the fact that he is polyamorous but never found an outlet, or a means to practice it ethically. Though I think I am also making excuses for bad behavior with that one.

Thanks for the response. I look forward to your feedback :) !!
 
It sounds like she is doing her best to get there, but it will never be even. It just doesn't work like that. Love is never even with anyone. It doesn't mean one is more important than the other, its just different.

Your situation would be my nightmare (I just wouldn't put myself there any more, I likely would only chose people who are experienced at poly at this point) but I think if I were you I would keep doing your best to accommodate her if she is working on loosening her control issues. Keep your agreements and don't agree to stuff you can't do. You get to put your foot down when necessary. Pick your battles.

I hope it is made very clear to her that primary/secondary relationships only work if all agree. If you intend to be in a position of equal, then make sure she know that and are investing in that. That you are agreeing to her whims because you intend to be there for the long haul and expect to be treated as equal.
 
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It sounds to me that she is slowly loosening her grip on what she's comfortable with when she's not around. Since there's a history of Tom cheating it sounds to me that she's still working on regaining trust in him.

It also sounds that things are moving forward, not stagnating or moving backwards. There's something that is said here a lot of the time of moving at the pace of the slowest person in the relationship. As time goes on I expect that more and more of the restrictions on you and Tom will be lifted.

It sounds to me that you are all talking together and are committed to working things out between the 3 of you.
 
I'm rooting for you three. I really hope it works, and I wish I had more practical advice to give you other than "hang in there and have lots of sex", but that's pretty much the only thing I have to say. I hope you can make it work because it'll definitely give me some hope. :eek:
 
Hopefully this will improve with time. I think it's paramount to concentrate on each pair within the Triad. Make 100% sure she's getting all the one-on-one quality time with both Tom and with you...so that when you and Tom are together, it just seems more natural. (Everyone needs a little alone time and she's surely eventually gonna want some as well, thus giving you and Tom a good opportunity.)

If she's had no trouble falling in love with you, then I don't think she's struggling so much with the concept of polyamory....but it's more like she just has this innate instinct of jealousy/envy that's been ingrained in her head like every other person in the world raised in a monogamy-oriented society. Unfortunately, she's just having a harder time getting over it. All three of you need to work on that...as well as other trust-building work within the group.

I'm not ashamed to say it...we actually had to go to a therapist to discuss this issues in our early days of our triad. (Make sure it's a counselor who's experienced with polyamory!). It helped a good deal.
Good luck!
 
There is no history between Tom and I, but there is history with Tom. He has a past of infidelity with his past long term relationships.

Yup, there you have it. Imagine Tom and Sara would have a history of communication where Tom would be the assertive, confident decision-maker and Sara would have a pattern where she would be too timid to voice objections out loud and thus would go along with things she was uncomfortable with only to please Tom, while harboring resentment and lashing out later at most unexpected times. So Tom and you would make holiday plans for the three of you, with Sara feeling she must oblige or seek angering/disappointing the two of you. Then, week before the said holiday, she would break down in tears and start shouting that the two of you are leaving her out and making all the decisions without a care for how she feels.

In this scenario, the pattern was there before you came along, and you did nothing to bring it about - your presence made the problem more acute, but didn't create it. The same goes for Sara's insecurities about Tom's past behavior. You are not the cause of this - nobody really is the problem here, so I think you really can work through this.
 
First my story then some advice!

I've been in a relationship with my husband for 8 years, 3 years ago we got married and 1 year ago we moved far away from our conservative and religious families. We were always very open with each other in our relationship and he was very accepting when I shared I was bisexual. (a struggle I had going through a Christian highschool) We didn't ever go "looking" for polyamorous relationships, but when he met Sarah through school she naturally fell into our lives.
I gave John permission to pursue a relationship with her as long as she didn't feel uncomfortable.
Sarah admitted to me that she was attracted to John and I shared with her that I was fine with that.
Sarah was raised fairly conservative as well and we helped her out of a bad long-term and long-distance relationship. She moved in with us about 5 months ago.
We're all students and take turns taking care of each other. We describe our relationship as genuine concern for the other's wellbeing.

So clearly, there's a "dominate" relationship in our triad as well. My Sarah believes she has problems with insecurities because of her past relationship. We try to focus on constant, honest communication. It's really hard sometimes and requires a lot of rational analysis. By attempting to discover when and why someone feels left out we are able to identify when our relationships struggle.

I try to keep communication open by leaving them both note, texts, and messages to remind them that I have unconditional concern for them. I try to make it a point to let them know that I am here to take care of them. This helps to alleviate feelings of insecurity. Jealously, which leads to insecurity, is based on fear. Attempting to identify the source of the fear (infidelity?) and confronting the issue may help to remove this dilemma from your relationship. You can't do much about Tom's past, but you can let your Sarah know that you will be as honest as you can.
 
It sounds like she is doing her best to get there, but it will never be even. It just doesn't work like that. Love is never even with anyone. It doesn't mean one is more important than the other, its just different.

Your situation would be my nightmare (I just wouldn't put myself there any more, I likely would only chose people who are experienced at poly at this point) but I think if I were you I would keep doing your best to accommodate her if she is working on loosening her control issues. Keep your agreements and don't agree to stuff you can't do. You get to put your foot down when necessary. Pick your battles.

I hope it is made very clear to her that primary/secondary relationships only work if all agree. If you intend to be in a position of equal, then make sure she know that and are investing in that. That you are agreeing to her whims because you intend to be there for the long haul and expect to be treated as equal.

You give some really good advice, thank you! I am patient with her needs at this point but I do communicate that I am in this situation because I love her, and I hope for it to last. I also remind her that it will only last if we are moving towards equality (as much as it can be equal). I understand there is no genuine equal relationship. I guess what I mean is that we each have the same freedoms within the relationship.
 
Still Confused

So it has been a while since I started this thread.

Things have not gotten any easier in terms of things being even in the relationship. I have been with Tom and Sarah now for five months, and Sarah still does not want Tom and I to be intimate when she is not around (so we aren't, usually). We have had a few slip up. I know this is wrong, but considering we are together 5-6 nights a week with just the two of us, I am actually surprised we manage to control ourselves to the extent that we do.

My main challenge is dealing with the resentment, and feelings of being marginalized in the relationship. On a rational level I know I am not a victim, that I am making the choice to be in this relationship, that I am making the choice to act lovingly towards Sarah by not pushing her to move the relationship faster than she is ready for it to go. Knowing this rationally is not helping though. I find myself annoyed with her more frequently, jealous when I hear of her and Tom being intimate, and resentful when she wants to know every detail about what Tom and I do when she is not around. I am less and less sensitive to her emotions when she gets insecure. It frustrates me that she can not see beyond her insecurities and fears, and just be happy that when she is at work the two people she loves are taking care of each other.

All of this scares me. I love Sarah. I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to resent her, yet I feel a need for this relationship to include me as an even participant How do I balance my want to be an understanding and accommodating lover, when doing so is making me feel like a second class citizen in this relationship?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
I find myself annoyed with her more frequently, jealous when I hear of her and Tom being intimate, and resentful when she wants to know every detail about what Tom and I do when she is not around. I am less and less sensitive to her emotions when she gets insecure. It frustrates me that she can not see beyond her insecurities and fears, and just be happy that when she is at work the two people she loves are taking care of each other.
When she wants to know every detail, does she come right out and ask you both, or does she quiz Tom in private about it? If she asks you, why can't you sincerely respond with, "Why [or what] do you want to know?" and then break down her questions to get to the heart of the matter.

Have the three of you all sat down for a meeting to check in (and perhaps bring up the topic of renegotiating boundaries) yet? If I were you, I would request one and then very lovingly express what you wrote above:
"Sarah, your need to know every detail about what we do is frustrating. It feels like you don't trust us. I understand, but perhaps it would be better to talk about your fears or insecurities in a way to work through them instead of requiring us to report to you. I love you and care about you, but I just do not feel like I'm being treated as an equal here. I'm starting to feel resentful about it, and I don't want to feel that way. I want the people I love to trust me. Can we talk about another way, a compromise, that will still put you at ease but that does not make us feel like we're being constantly watched and micro-managed?"
How does Tom feel about it? Oh, and have you made an effort to spend lots of time with her alone, just the two of you (socially, not just sexually)? That would probably help a great deal, to do something with just her at least once a week.
 
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So it has been a while since I started this thread.

Things have not gotten any easier in terms of things being even in the relationship. I have been with Tom and Sarah now for five months, and Sarah still does not want Tom and I to be intimate when she is not around (so we aren't, usually). We have had a few slip up. I know this is wrong, but considering we are together 5-6 nights a week with just the two of us, I am actually surprised we manage to control ourselves to the extent that we do.

My main challenge is dealing with the resentment, and feelings of being marginalized in the relationship. On a rational level I know I am not a victim, that I am making the choice to be in this relationship, that I am making the choice to act lovingly towards Sarah by not pushing her to move the relationship faster than she is ready for it to go. Knowing this rationally is not helping though. I find myself annoyed with her more frequently, jealous when I hear of her and Tom being intimate, and resentful when she wants to know every detail about what Tom and I do when she is not around. I am less and less sensitive to her emotions when she gets insecure. It frustrates me that she can not see beyond her insecurities and fears, and just be happy that when she is at work the two people she loves are taking care of each other.

All of this scares me. I love Sarah. I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to resent her, yet I feel a need for this relationship to include me as an even participant How do I balance my want to be an understanding and accommodating lover, when doing so is making me feel like a second class citizen in this relationship?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

So committed to achieving equanimity turned into I want what I want and will do exactly what you feared to get it. All the ethical methods Tom needed to learn to be poly rather than just a garden variety cheat have been scrapped. PS we love you Sarah.
You get 5-6 nights a week with someone who was originally another's primary? No wonder she feels insecure and left out; wanting to know all the details.
This will end badly because she has been demoted and the two of you have left her out of the progression towards intimacy that you once wanted all three of you to have equally. You wanted equanimity in this triad? If that was what you wanted you wouldn't have cut her out. Equanimity would be all of you sharing the intimate moments. I don't think you ever wanted that. You just wanted to be in her position when she wasn't around. 2 of the 3 in this triad are getting together without 1 all but one or two nights a week. This isn't a triad; its a sneaky V.
 
and Sarah still does not want Tom and I to be intimate when she is not around (so we aren't, usually). We have had a few slip up. I know this is wrong, but considering we are together 5-6 nights a week with just the two of us, I am actually surprised we manage to control ourselves to the extent that we do.

I suggest you come clean to Sarah about this right now, if you haven't already. And talk about how the 5-6 nights alone per week are eating away at your self-control. If you honestly don't want to continue cheating with Tom, DON'T hang out so much together 'unsupervised'! There is really no other way around it.

And yeah, I'm with Indie; where are all the date nights with Sarah?
 
That resentment is going to build if someone doesn't come out with some real feelings and requests to make some changes to your boundaries I think. How about 3 nights a week and intimacy. She gets him 3 nights too and one can be a fly by the seat of our pants night. Take the emotion out before its too late and strategize.

This doesn't seem like a triad. A vee maybe? Some clarification there might help. Jsut because its a vee doesn't mean the arms don't talk. Metamours can be as close as loves.
 
You get 5-6 nights a week with someone who was originally another's primary? No wonder she feels insecure and left out; wanting to know all the details.

. . . 2 of the 3 in this triad are getting together without 1 all but one or two nights a week. This isn't a triad; its a sneaky V.

And talk about how the 5-6 nights alone per week are eating away at your self-control. If you honestly don't want to continue cheating with Tom, DON'T hang out so much together 'unsupervised'!

Somehow this important detail did not register with me. I imagined that the two are home all that time and Sarah has a heavy work schedule or something. Polycouple (interesting name, considering you're in a triad, hmmm), it seems to me that you need to get out more with friends and create a social life outside this dynamic so that you are not so focused on Tom when you have time off. Sarah is perhaps sensing a neediness on your part, if all your activities outside of work involve Tom (just a guess) - and so it makes sense that her inner alarm bells are going off! Just wondering... do you think your feelings have shifted to such a degree that you might really be entertaining the thoughts of having Tom to yourself?

How about 3 nights a week and intimacy. She gets him 3 nights too and one can be a fly by the seat of our pants night.

^^ I second this!
 
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When she wants to know every detail, does she come right out and ask you both, or does she quiz Tom in private about it? If she asks you, why can't you sincerely respond with, "Why [or what] do you want to know?" and then break down her questions to get to the heart of the matter.

Have the three of you all sat down for a meeting to check in (and perhaps bring up the topic of renegotiating boundaries) yet? If I were you, I would request one and then very lovingly express what you wrote above:
"Sarah, your need to know every detail about what we do is frustrating. It feels like you don't trust us. I understand, but perhaps it would be better to talk about your fears or insecurities in a way to work through them instead of requiring us to report to you. I love you and care about you, but I just do not feel like I'm being treated as an equal here. I'm starting to feel resentful about it, and I don't want to feel that way. I want the people I love to trust me. Can we talk about another way, a compromise, that will still put you at ease but that does not make us feel like we're being constantly watched and micro-managed?"
How does Tom feel about it? Oh, and have you made an effort to spend lots of time with her alone, just the two of you (socially, not just sexually)? That would probably help a great deal, to do something with just her at least once a week.



Thanks for your good advice. We do sit and communicate together, but not nearly enough, due to conflicting schedules. Also, when we get precious time together with the three of us we tend to want to enjoy it, rather than have intense conversations. I know this needs to change!

I like the compromise idea. It occurred to me that perhaps she would be ok with intimacy between Tom and I if it were only to occur a certain number of times a week, or only on certain days. I might bring this idea up!

Tom and I are pretty much on the same page. We want an even relationship, but we also want to go at a pace that Sarah is comfortable. We have made slip ups, yes, but we really want to do this the right way.
 
So committed to achieving equanimity turned into I want what I want and will do exactly what you feared to get it. All the ethical methods Tom needed to learn to be poly rather than just a garden variety cheat have been scrapped. PS we love you Sarah.
You get 5-6 nights a week with someone who was originally another's primary? No wonder she feels insecure and left out; wanting to know all the details.
This will end badly because she has been demoted and the two of you have left her out of the progression towards intimacy that you once wanted all three of you to have equally. You wanted equanimity in this triad? If that was what you wanted you wouldn't have cut her out. Equanimity would be all of you sharing the intimate moments. I don't think you ever wanted that. You just wanted to be in her position when she wasn't around. 2 of the 3 in this triad are getting together without 1 all but one or two nights a week. This isn't a triad; its a sneaky V.

Well, you have come to a lot of assumptions that are simply not true. I think once you understand more of the context you might see that. Sarah works second shift. Tom and I work first shift. When we see each other 5-6 night a week Sarah is completely aware, and supportive of that, so there is no sneaking there. Yes, we have slipped up a few times with being intimate together sexually. I'm not proud of this. I don't think it is right. However, I do not think what we did was cheating. This is a relationship within which we are all knowingly and openly in love with each other. Sarah believes Tom and I should be able to be intimate with one another when she is not there, she does does not feel emotionally ready for it yet. Sarah and I are able to be intimate with one another without Tom because he does not have the same reservations.

I would never want to cut Sarah out of this relationship! In fact, I am so excited because she may be getting to work from home which means I will see her more. I think if we could see more of each other than the relationship could grow in a positive direction. When we are all together, these issues dissipate.
 
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