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  #11  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:29 AM
1234567 1234567 is offline
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Think I was trying to say it was not ethical to have poly exceptions, not there wanít an attempt to justify bad treatment in the name of poly.

Are you saying itís acceptable, or that it exists?
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:53 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Iím saying that if you transition from mono to poly there is going to be demotion, displacement and intrusion either solo or bilaterally. How much of that is felt or how damaging that is dependent on the situation and players.

Itís a fact and thus it exists and by extension it becomes the exception.

However by it being sort of out in the open that way it might not be viewed as bad treatment...just different treatment ....new treatment ...new normal. So in that way itís not an exception.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:05 AM
1234567 1234567 is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I’m saying that if you transition from mono to poly there is going to be demotion, displacement and intrusion either solo or bilaterally. How much of that is felt or how damaging that is dependent on the situation and players.

It’s a fact and thus it exists and by extension it becomes the exception.

However by it being sort of out in the open that way it might not be viewed as bad treatment...just different treatment ....new treatment ...new normal. So in that way it’s not an exception.
I guess to my mind, there is going to be time sharing and lack of exclusivity if you transition.

Isnit inherently bad to share time? No, people adopt hobbies all the time. Is it okay to neglect your responsibilities? That’s bad treatment whether tencompetition is x-box or a person.

Is it bad not to be exclusive? I think if you adopt poly, you say it is not. And this statement assumes the presumption poly has been decided to be adopted. It has it’s challenges, and being kind to your partner in those challenges is part of treating someone well in poly. You may need to be extra-reassuring and loving, because thay’s Good treatment when someojenis in a situation that is inherently stretchy or insecure. They may need to be extra-independent and develop resources outside you. Because that’s part of being loving and wise and protective of thentelationship whe circumstances make the time that was available for you less available.

I think if you demote someone because you are with someone else, you are doing it wrong. You firstborn kid can still be as precious to you after his sibling arrives. Even if you no longer have as much time or exclusivity.

Last edited by 1234567; 12-06-2017 at 11:10 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:40 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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It depends how you’re coming at this. Are you coming at this from the ground up/ open from day one or from a 12 yr existing marriage with 4 kids.

Are you familiar with the term poly hell ?

Yes time share and lack of exclusivity.....which is how we get to displacement and demotion.

Demotion ....you went from being the one and only ( in the latter example ) to a fraction. One of 2or 3 or whatever that person deems him or her saturation point.

Last edited by dingedheart; 12-06-2017 at 06:49 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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FallenAngelina FallenAngelina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1234567 View Post
I think i’ve Seen this feedback from you before; interested if it’s a pet peeve or general criticism by the group? Others welcome to chime in
It's not criticism from me or the group, but a suggestion so that your thread can attract more group discussion. Sure, a few people will post, but most people who see all the disjointed questions just won't respond and are more likely to focus on stories that are easier to follow. It's the same reason we recommend that people use nicknames here instead of initials for their "characters." We read an awful lot of stories here and whatever makes the reading easier for readers to digest is of benefit to the writer. Unless you're a daily/regular poster here and we already know many details, keeping your story cohesive helps us get to know you and remember your situation.
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:03 PM
Tinwen Tinwen is offline
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I've noticed that purely philosophical question rarely get as much attention as specific life situation. They can be a bit meaningless and hard to answer without context, not to mention that adding a personal dimension stirs up emotion like any good story It's often the writer's intention to get more general thoughts (unless it's a way to get personal questions answered while avoiding vulnerability), and that's totally ok (both actually, except the second ususally fails), but it's good to know when writing a general question that this effect of less interest is there.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:15 PM
anamikanon anamikanon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1234567 View Post
Iím actually surprised no one came on here to defend hierarchy. ĎVe Had all those things happen in the past year or so, and the blind acceptance of what to be felt like mistreatment in the name of a partnerís feelings was jarring. In
me, too- I accepted until I didnít.


Guess itís s blind spot- not a controversial ethical viewpoint.
Not sure hierarchy is an adequate explanation for being an ass to someone.

I'm one of those people who believes that a hierarchy of some sort is always there. And there can be layers. Whether explicit or explicitly denied or anything in between. The mind thinks things in relative terms, so in how the mind works, there will always be a partner you feel more close to, you feel more horny for, you trust more, you'd hate to lose no matter the compromise, someone is needier than others and so on. Sometimes all the "more" partners will be the same person. or they may be different. But for that aspect, they would be at the top of the hierarchy.

Regardless, polyamory is multiple loves and loving someone does mean that you don't treat them unfairly. Even if you are monogamous and there is no other partner, you still shouldn't treat the person unfairly.
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2017, 06:53 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Iíve decided that in my view of ethics, there is no poly exception to treating someone well.

In my eyes, limiting contact with someone or telling your partner they must make sure you know first every time you textl someone is as much controlling behavior in a poly relationship where you know they may be having sex, as a mono one, where it is only an abstract fear.

(It is, however, completely fine for the partner to show consideration and tell enough information that no one gets blindsided, assuming that there are no privacy concerns)

It is as assholey to break a date based on a partnerís fears and anxiety as it would be to your own (non-clinical) fears and anxieties(I do understand that anxiety disorders change the playing field, and get that cancelling due to mental health issues is a different ballgame.)

Itís as wrong to not create space to check in the next day with a partner who you have unintentionally injured (say, a kink scene go wrong) if you are visiting a second partner as it would if you were working. There is always time for a quick text.

Prioritizing or spending time with one partner should never be an excuse for being a jerk to a second partner.

People raise two or more kids and manage to not be a jerk to one to care for another. Itís not any different with two adults you date. You may need to ask one to wait; you may need to explain your priorities; you may need to reassure that you are creating a culturenof caring, and they would receive the same when it was their turn- but itís surely possible to not only be poly sexual or polyamorpus but poly considerate.

Discuss.
I love these sort of philosophical discussions - and I have to say that it is the difficulties that poly would present to my ethical view of the world that forms part of the reason why I chose not to have a poly relationship when my partner asked me to, since those are his preference.

I have to say that none of the challenges I see in poly are insurmountable but they do involve more effort than I am willing to put into relationship stuff (my partner too judging by how he chooses to spend his time.)

The crux of it for me is that a couple choosing to have poly relationships doesn't do so in a vacuum. Few people have nobody and nothing in their lives other than their romantic relationships. Even if the couple themselves are happy to be poly and are supportive of each other's relationships, they have more problems to overcome if they want to treat their other partners well.

They must find a workplace where it is okay to say - "I need to leave early to take my boyfriend/girlfriend/partner etc to a doctor appointment" when they've already said "I need to leave early to take my husband/wife/partner etc to a hospital appointment" the previous week. Somewhere that they don't have to hide family emergencies in part of their family because nobody knows about the other part of their family.

They need to talk family into being okay with either them bringing multiple partners to family events (assuming that the metamours are happy spending time together) or are happy for partners to be alternated at family events without it being upsetting.

They need friendship groups who are supportive of their relationship style who won't constantly tell them that they are being selfish and treating their partners badly or are being treated badly themselves. Otherwise they are likely to find themselves locked into an endless round of justification of their lives and with nobody to talk relationship problems over with.

They need plans in place that will ensure each partner is allowed access to them and a say in their care in the event of a serious accident - otherwise it is likely that the person seen as the main partner by everybody else will be included in all of the grieving and prep around that and the other partner will be cut out of that.

I'm sure that there is other stuff and this, for me, is what makes poly relationships difficult to do in a way that I would consider ethical - without doing a ton of work and placing more focus than I would like on romantic relationships. Since I'm not willing to do all of that work, I stick to mono relationships or no romantic relationship at all.

None of this stuff applies to multiple children in a family which is why it is pretty easy to have more than one kid without being a dick to all but the oldest one. Workplaces expect family emergencies involving more than one child, family expect them all to turn up at events, friends are happy to talk about the antics of more than one kid and to commiserate about the difficulties of raising them and in the event of serious injury or illness of a parent, everybody wants all of the children to be involved.

IP
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2017, 02:29 PM
1234567 1234567 is offline
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That is beautifully said, and a life beautifully lived, IP
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2017, 07:17 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Originally Posted by 1234567 View Post
That is beautifully said, and a life beautifully lived, IP
Thanks.

My life right now is everything I could want it to be.

I found this forum years ago when I first started seeing my partner and he told me about poly - and about his view that it is the best way to go about having relationships. I thought it sounded fascinating and started to try and find out more. When I found this forum, I found a group of helpful, thoughtful people all living different lives and with different viewpoints. Reading the thoughts and stories here helped me to understand that poly would not fit into the life I want to live.

I stay around because I love the forum so much.
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