Not supposed to compare ourselves, but...

[Vexxed]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Sure he's funny, kind, considerate, generous... but none of those are why I love him. I love him because of who he just is. I would love him if he were paralyzed or in a coma and unable to do any of the things we love doing together.

That sounds like unconditional love. I think that such love takes time and is developed after spending lots of time with someone that you care about. It is not the same as what atracts a person, in my opinion. I think that mate selection is driven by the exact reasons that social scientist have found. I'm not going to list them here, but The Evolution of Desire is a great book.

You can change all the parts of yourself: become educated, get in shape, practice conversation, learn to be funny... those are all just skills that you can learn. But none of them change who you are.

They might not change me, but I promise you that more women would be interested in me. I've seen it happen before when I put on 10 lbs and dress better.

I go to school with people whom I find handsome, intelligent, funny... all the things that are great in a partner. And you know what? I have no romantic feelings for them whatsoever.

They must have negative qualities that offset their attractive qualities.

Take the positive aspects you see in her husband and boyfriend, things you envy, and learn how you might incorporate them into yourself. But do it for yourself, not because you want to be more like them.

I don't envy her husband. He's a good conversationalist too though.

Want to be more articulate? Practice conversations with women at coffee shops.

It is terribly hard for me to start a conversation with women at coffee shops.

Maybe she gets tired of him always talking her ear off, and really loves the way she can actually get a word in edgewise with you. And I think office guys are totally boring, whereas I love the natural muscles that labourers get just working, and greasy sweaty stinky guys working hard are SO hot! Don't assume that your differences from him are negatives!

I've considered that, and it does make me feel better.

[classycaveman]

Hey Vexxed... I have a few things I'd like to point to, let me know what you think...

Originally Posted by Vexxed

They look to be in early stage foreplay, and as if they are communicating silently while he or she talks to me... I suspect that hsi ability to engage her in conversation is a major explanation.

Face to face conversation is 55% Body Language, 38% Tone of voice and only 7% Words. Being articulate probably isn't what's making her giddy.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

It seems to me that she wooed by all the ways in which he exceeds me. It just so happens that they are areas that bothered me BEFORE I entered into this relationship.

Hmmm... well this explains why you think being articulate can help you communicate silently Sorry man, just poking fun. It sounds to me like you are fitting old ideas about yourself into this new situation, no matter how little sense they make to everyone else.

And another thing: Why do you want to be like this other guy? She already has one of him, she doesn't need another one. She doesn't want another one. If she did, she'd go and get one. It seems as though what she wants is YOU! There could be some qualities that you're not counting, some things you do that you don't even know you do that are attracting her.

Sure, I realize that I provide a couple of things that her other partners do not. Nonetheless, I don't feel like I captivate her, or make her feel giddy.

Ok... it's possible that you don't captivate her. I don't know, I've never met either of you or seen you together. If you don't captivate her, then the relationship will fade. If, however, you were her only partner and you didn't captivate her, then she might hold on to a bad thing for longer, you might never realize that you don't captivate her, and things might end up terribly. Which would you prefer?

[Vexxed]

I don't want to be like him. I'd just rather have a more admirable career, and be able to deeply engage her in conversation. There would still be many differences between him and I.

[polytriad]

I agree that comparisons can be beneficial if you use them with a positive spin but it sounds like you are letting it hurt your confidence. If you become inspired then that is great but comparison that puts you down or makes you feel inferior then you need to stop.


I apologize if others have said something similar I only read the first post.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

They might not change me, but I promise you that more women would be interested in me. I've seen it happen before when I put on 10 lbs and dress better.

I can't help but think, then, that perhaps you're trying to attract the wrong women? Either that or you don't think much of the women you're trying to attract.

We can all play that game of "if I was more 'x'" and "If I become more 'y', then I will be more attractive to people".

The fact is, that is only *one* aspect of attraction. And while it may open some doors for some people, it is not sufficient for creating and maintaining a genuine connection with someone. The trouble is that media and even these science books are trying to make us put more weight in these things than they actually hold in maintaining relationships.

My current partner is a funny looking guy. He's a big old nerd, slightly shorter than me and doesn't really possess the regularly accepted traits that make someone "hot". He also doesn't have a heck of a lot of money at the moment and his job is kind of cool, but he's not saving the planet or swimming with killer whales with what he does.

He also has a mile long list of women who want to either date him or at least get in his pants. He has NEVER had a problem finding partners. Mainly because he's a very direct, confident person who knows who he is, lives intentionally and really looks at the world and other people with wonder and joy. That's *really* attractive. If I were to only look at him in terms of a list of qualities that most people list off, he wouldn't pass. As it happens, I'm pretty head over heels for him and most of that has nothing to do with that list.

In fact, that list is only as relevant as you choose to make it.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

It is terribly hard for me to start a conversation with women at coffee shops.

That's something that can certainly be solved with practice.

[GroundedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Vexxed

I don't want to be like him. I'd just rather have a more admirable career, and be able to deeply engage her in conversation. There would still be many differences between him and I.

Hey Vexxed,

Well, I think like Ceoli pointed out in her post, a lot of this stuff is really superficial.
I think your time would be better spent investigating what the real connection is between you. That's where the 'real' stuff lies.

GS

[Vexxed]

So, poly people are more intellectual, and are more likely to be attracted to a person's personality than their facial features, body, or resources. Yet, just because they are more likely to value someone's personality doesn't mean that the age old triggers for attraction don't play in. Pretty is as pretty does, but it sure opens some doors.

I flow with confidence at the poly functions. I've passed on dating other women in the group over the last 4 months. Looking at the group as an isolated pool of dating partners, I can say that I feel like I have the upper hand. I'm confident there.

My job is not totally bland. It can be seen as a form of environmentalism/conservation.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

So, poly people are more intellectual, and are more likely to be attracted to a person's personality than their facial features, body, or resources. Yet, just because they are more likely to value someone's personality doesn't mean that the age old triggers for attraction don't play in. Pretty is as pretty does, but it sure opens some doors.

You seem pretty attached to this idea, so of course that's how the world is always going to look to you. As long as you see it that way, this comparison issue with metamours is always going to be limiting for you.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

I flow with confidence at the poly functions. I've passed on dating other women in the group over the last 4 months. Looking at the group as an isolated pool of dating partners, I can say that I feel like I have the upper hand. I'm confident there.

Overlooking the fact that you seem to be ranking and rating everyone in this situation (which I think creates it's own problems), if you feel you have the upper hand then what's your problem?

Originally Posted by Vexxed

My job is not totally bland. It can be seen as a form of environmentalism/conservation.

You're the one who brought up wanting to have a more admirable career. I'm simply saying it's only as relevant as you choose to make it. It seems you base a lot of the value of others on looks, career, etc... That's your CHOICE to do so and it's also your CHOICE to subject yourself to that criteria. If that's how you want to roll, then great. Just be prepared to never feel like quite enough with such a value system. Especially as you get older.

[Vexxed]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

Overlooking the fact that you seem to be ranking and rating everyone in this situation (which I think creates it's own problems), if you feel you have the upper hand then what's your problem?



You're the one who brought up wanting to have a more admirable career. I'm simply saying it's only as relevant as you choose to make it. It seems you base a lot of the value of others on looks, career, etc... That's your CHOICE to do so and it's also your CHOICE to subject yourself to that criteria. If that's how you want to roll, then great. Just be prepared to never feel like quite enough with such a value system. Especially as you get older.

I don't have a issue with the isolated situations at poly functions. I literally have options there. I feel anxiety when my girlfriend is having fun with boyfriend #2.

I've earned 3 times the average American income in some years, and then now I'm earning below what is average. The two situations are worlds apart when it comes to me being considered by women that are totally single. Sure, married women still like me regardless of my income.

So, I'm jaded, but life experiences have been clear evidence of real factors in mate selection. I know, the rules are changed in poly situatons, because I don't need to be a total package. I just don't like being less of a package and feeling like I just fill in a few cracks that are left over.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

I've earned 3 times the average American income in some years, and then now I'm earning below what is average. The two situations are worlds apart when it comes to me being considered by women that are totally single. Sure, married women still like me regardless of my income.

Then as I said earlier, you must not think very much of the women that you're trying to attract.

Originally Posted by Vexxed

So, I'm jaded, but life experiences have been clear evidence of real factors in mate selection. I know, the rules are changed in poly situatons, because I don't need to be a total package. I just don't like being less of a package and feeling like I just fill in a few cracks that are left over.

There are many poly people who don't think of their relationships the way you seem to be. I'm poly and every person I date has to be a "whole package". I don't pick and choose bits from some people and others from other people. Actually a discussion about that very topic has been happening in this thread.

As for your life experiences being clear about what the real factors are for mate selection: Well, I used to think that way. I spent a lot of time in my life thinking that I never met the criteria for what other people would consider attractive and that's why people weren't dating me. The fact was that I was creating that reality with how I was seeing things. When I changed that outlook, I strangely found myself surrounded by crazy sexy attractive people that have wanted to date me.

I don't know what circles you run in, but most of the crazy sexy attractive people I know wouldn't give a rat's ass about how much money you make. The only thing they would find unattractive about that is how much of a rat's ass *you* seem to be giving about it.