transitapparent - I ramble alot

While I do agree that we can't control what our partner does... this learning how to let go of expectations we have of and with our partner can be difficult for some of us, especially if there are other issues like the relationship isn't in great conditon and being far away. NRE has been a bitch for me too because while I understand it, I don't get the loving squeezes to offset it. And that does make a difference, especially when you're someone who is newer to this type of relationship and ESPECIALLY if you're someone who is going into this FOR your partner, and it wasn't really your choice to change directions.

Letting go of expectations hasn't been easy for me, but it's coming. I've had to let go of pictures in my head of what's going to happen. Because it's NEVER going to be just like the vision you have. :) I think this comes easier with time and experience, but at some point I realized I needed to not try to retain control of their relationship. I don't have it, I don't REALLY want it, and it doesn't help make it any easier. What makes it easier is working on my relationship with HIM, so that whatever they do is whatever they do. If I'm feeling unloved and not getting what I need, that's an issue I have with him, and he and I need to talk about it and figure out what to do about it together.

I think sometimes people underestimate the courage it takes to go completely against everything you thought and work on your thinking, feelings and everything attached. It's hard enough when you're doing that with something you feel you need for yourself, it's even tougher when you're doing it for someone else. I think that's why a lot of poly people take more baby steps, more guidelines and boundaries until they can see through experience that they're not losing their relationship, that their partner can be trusted, etc. I don't see an issue with boundaries if they're needed. It's like training wheels. Not everybody can jump on the bike and ride. Some people need experience, help to keep them from falling while they gain their balance.

I think you're right in that when you're home you'll be able to get that love and squeezes and be able to reestablish your connection. The military is crappy for putting people in situations where it's REALLY difficult to retain your connection with your spouse, and that's without adding in extra elements.

I would definitely maybe think about seeing a counselor about the anger issues. Not because you need to be "fixed" :) but because a good counselor will be able to give you some concrete tools for managing anger. And for clear and good communication skills. All awesome tools for life, and super awesome for relationships.
 
I spent some time with a counselor many years ago about my anger. I have done really well for a long time. this was an isolated issue. I think it has to do with several things. stress from deployment, separation from the family, and a lack of communication on both of our parts. it's hard when all you have is skype and email. the time zone thing is kind of a pain too.

I don't want to control their relationship. all I want from her is honesty and to keep me in the loop. I don't ask her to but she lets me know when she leaves for the gym and when she is on her way home. she tells me when she is going to her friends house at home. why couldn't she let me know she was leaving the bar late?

by the way, they took the pictures I wanted this morning. WOW!!!! AMAZING!!!! she sends me naked pics all the time but they are all in bathroom mirrors with her phone. when she actually gets to pose, which is what I really wanted, absolutely amazing. she is amazingly photogenic. she is also amazingly hot.

I love my wife and she loves me. if I didn't realize it before, I do now. I think, after this morning, she realizes just how hard this is on me. deployment, separation, work, poly....I have a lot on my plate right now. I'm so ready to get home.
 
well, last night she flew out of NY. she says it was a good visit. she saw alot of her old friends and of course her BF.

I survived. a couple bumps and bruises, awed and humbled but I survived. as much as I hate myself for sending the nasty email, I think it was a step forward. it forced her and I to talk. we talk all the time just not about this. I think she is starting to understand what I need.

next step. she is going to NY again in a few weeks for a graduation party. another event I was supposed to go to before I found out it was my time to rotate over here. on one hand, I'm glad she is seeing him so much, on the other hand, I'm naturally jealous. I think it is also starting to raise some suspicions amongst our families who don't know. I'll be gone for a total of 4 months, which is pretty good, shortest hitch in my navy career. this will be her 3rd trip to NY in those 4 months. subtlety is not her strong suit.

the upside to that is we'll both be getting back around the same time. she might actually have to cut her trip short depending on when I'm supposed to get back. I have no ETA yet.

I'm probably gonna need some more help when she goes again. you guys are amazing and I thank everyone for the advice.
 
it's July!!!! I know, I'm a day late but work has really picked up this past week. July means that at the end of the month (possibly the beginning of next month), I'll be home. it's all about getting to the checkpoints and hoping that time doesn't stall on me.

the second half of the month is probably going to drag for me. mama (it's what I'm gonna refer to my wife as from now on) is heading to NY again. another trip that has been planned for a long time, before she hooked up with the BF (I'll need to think of a name for him) but she is going to have alot more chances to see him again leaving me with the fear of the unknown all over again. I try not to think about it but it always creeps into my mind.

it won't be as easy for her to go out because she will have the kids with her this time but she has lots of friends so I know she can easily find a babysitter. as much as I want to be happy for them, I don't like the idea of her leaving the kids with someone just so she can go have sex. even if it is a good family friend. it has less to do with the sex and more to do with the kids.

anyway, right now I'm happy and on cruise control for the next month. Itinerary to go home will be out in a couple of weeks. woooohooooo!!!!!

VA OR BUST!!!!!!
 
I skyped with mama and the kids last night. I love talking to her on skype, I can see her face so it makes me feel closer to her. after I went to work, she sent me an email asking for me to call her so I did.

looks like her and the BF's NRE is over. not for sure but they may be done. I talked to him this morning and he seems to think so. I have an Idea of what it's about but I don't want to speculate until I hear it from her.

I kind of feel relieved because of all the anxiety it's put me through. at the same time, depending on what happened she might be depressed for the last few weeks before I get home which would suck and I would feel horrible.

I don't know if it's even over but if it is, I'm not sure if she is going to want to try it again. time will tell. I'll know more later.
 
she went out with her friends and wound up leaving at 11:30 instead of 8 because she had been drinking. she said she danced for 3 hours straight. so when she finally got to the hotel room, she was tired from dancing, tired from drinking and then they had sex and fell asleep.

apparently they had a big fight about this last night. he thought saturday was supposed to be his day and felt blown off because mama was spending time with her friends. I guess he really blew his top about it. he quit smoking a few weeks ago and blames the withdrawals.

mama and I had a nice long talk about it today and she is starting to see things that I told her about months ago. she said she doesn't see it going anywhere. she suggested he get a GF thats local and I don't think he liked that , I guess he only has eyes for her. I'm not sure whats going to happen with them.

if nothing else, it was a learning experience for both of us.
 
I'm still not sure of they are going to make it. mama has suggested again that he should find a local GF. he doesn't seem to want to. I think he is hoping that someday she will leave me for him. she has assured both me and him that it won't ever happen.

he is jealous of me and he is also jealous that she wants to spend time with her friends when she goes back to NY. there are 2 big problems that are keeping them from getting together while she is there.

1. the kids. when she was up there before, the kids stayed with her sister, so she was free to do what she wanted. she doesn't think it's fair to them to get someone to babysit while she goes out with him and I agree. (none of her friends know and we plan on keeping it that way) she also won't leave them with anyone overnight which is good considering all the red flags it would throw up.

2. they are from a small area and everybody knows both of them. most of them know me too. if they were to be seen together, there would be alot of talk and would probably make it back to her family. (again, not ready for anyone to know.)

he is upset about it but she says that even though she loves him, protecting our marriage comes first. we're going back up that way again in August so it's not like he has to wait that long to see her again. then I can watch the kids and they can hang out by themselves.

on another note. I sent out a message on OKC and this time I actually got a positive response. I told her I was out of the country for another few weeks to a month so email would have to be our primary means of communication. she was good with that. gives us time to be friends before we ever meet face to face. I can't wait totell mama!!!! I'm not sure if she will be excited or if she is going to wrestle with the same emotions I did.
 
wow, I can't believe it's been almost a week since I've posted news in here.

well, I'm not entirely sure what is happening with mama and the BF. she says that they can't be in a relationship anymore but she still wants to be friends. I've talked to him and he seems to be having a harder time accepting it than she is. not really sure if there's anything I can do to help.

I do have a problem with them being friends though. they had strong feelings for each other. they both say they have pushed them aside but I know it isn't that easy to do.

I wouldn't have a problem but after talking to him I've found out some things. I was 100% on the back burner. she bad mouthed me, she talked about leaving me. he says he talked her out of it. obviously stuff she never told me. I always thought we were happy. now she tells me that it went too far, she crossed too many boundaries.

if it happened once, I'm pretty sure it can happen again. I think I'm going to talk to her about counseling when I get home before we try this again.

now I'm not sure what to say to the girl I've been chatting with from OKC. it's been getting warm the past couple of days.
 
Are you sure he's not just saying that as a way to get back at her for ending it?

I can see where that might come into play, but he has always been pretty straight with me, so I don't think thats the case. from the get go, he didn't want to disrupt our marriage. he didn't want to hurt our kids. he didn't even want to get involved because she was married but my wife is persistent. he tells me that he is happy that he was able to bring us closer together, that at least he did something right.

she never told me that she bad mouthed me or thought about leaving, but she has said that she let it go to far. maybe she got carried away with NRE. it doesn't help that I'm halfway around the world. sometimes physical touch is just as important as communication.

live and learn, keep moving forward.
 
Physical touch is definitely important. I know that for me, though the words and skype and all of that helps, there is always something missing when hubs is gone.

You'll be home soon, and you guys can reconnect and figure out what's up from there. Perhaps after you've been home a little bit, you two can plan a time to really debrief about this experience, what you think, what you've both learned, what has changed... someplace relaxing, just the two of you.

I know that sometimes it feels to me like things change daily... something comes up and people's views swing so fast. It's good to get a sit-rep every once in a while. :)
 
debrief should be easy. she has said that she will hold all contact with him for a week or 2 once I get home. that way we can focus completely on each other, reflect, reconnect and refigure our guidelines to keep our marriage safer in any future endeavours.
 
I have been on OKC recently myself, and see a lot of interesting scenarios in the messages that I receive. While my current BF and I are exploring all of this, he and I keep nothing from each other - I always joke with him that I could never cheat because I blurt everything to him; I can't keep secrets very well, if at all. But the people who message me, claiming to be "poly" or "honest with their spouses" are really anything but when it comes right down to it. I hear the sob stories of "my GF or wife just doesn't understand me anymore", or "the fire has died and we thought this would be a good way to bring back the fun".

I think a lot of people think that "becoming" poly might be some sort of spark to fix marital problems that simply need to be talked about. And talking can just really be hard for some people. I love to talk. :) But my BF hates to talk - I mean really despises it (unless it is about sports, of course:rolleyes:). So we butt heads all the time about communicating and sharing emotions and trying to express to each other problems or needs or desires. We have very different communication styles - I express everything and he bottles up. And we end up arguing (well, when my parents did it they called it discussing ;)) and I chase him around the house trying to get him to open up because I don't back down until he at least says something.

Poly is definitely not a panacea for anything. Communication is very important. Having you gone for long periods of time is creating opportunities for both of you to learn new ways to communicate with each other and relearn how and why you fell in love in the beginning of the relationship. My BF works 2 hours away during the week, and only comes home on the weekends - not a great comparison - but I can kind of understand that she feels somewhat frustrated and lonely and enjoys the attention she gets from someone else, maybe not quite realizing that you still feel that way about her too.

Your ideas about taking some time together without the pressure of her new BF and possibly digging into some counseling are very good ones - I wish you both the best as it sounds like you are a truly supportive and caring husband, even half a world away.

>^^<

p.s. I tend to be blunt, and if I offend in any way it is completely unintentional.
 
I don't see anything offensive in anything that you wrote.

personally, I never thought we had marital problems. obviously everyone does, but I never saw anything. I still like to think it was the 7 year itch. they knew each other in high school, he said the right kind words, and all of a sudden it was exciting. maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure.

new news that really doesn't sit well with me.

they aren't "together" anymore but she says she still wants to be friends and possibly pursue a FWB relationship with him. not that big of a deal. my issue is, they did a lot of sexting before. lots of pictures. once it was decided that they weren't together anymore, she stopped sending him pictures. I agreed. last night she says he is mad at her becasue she won't send any. threatened to walk away. I told her that if he really wanted to be her friend, he wasn't going to walk away and he wouldn't threaten too either. I'm not really sure how I should approach this. last week they were saying they loved each other. this week they're just friends. I think I'm worried that if they start sexting again, they will fall into the pattern they were in before. it almost destroyed our marriage once, I don't want that to happen again.

cat, if you don't mind me asking, where are you in NoVa? my parents live in Dale City and I normally drive up there once a month to see them.
 
oh, I forgot to mention that he also asked her why it mattered because they had already been together and they were going to be together again.

he then tried to use the one friend of ours that knows about this against her.

I don't like him trying to pressure her into this. I really feel like I need to put a stop to it.

any inputs would be great before I wind up doing something high and right.
 
I'm sure others will have better practical advice but that won't stop me from trying. :)

I think often the partner who is not in NRE can see red flags a little more clearly. I also think that it can be difficult to express those red flags to the partner and have them listen-- both because they are caught up in NRE AND because it can get jumbled into the "you're jealous and are trying to see bad things" pile. So I do think it's important for the non-NRE partner to really take a good look and see if they're really seeing red flags or just don't like the person (I'm assuming you've already done this, just throwing this out there), and it's important to find a way to express those things to your partner and have them heard.

I think sometimes this is one of those discussions you have to have again once the NRE is gone to clear the road for open discussion of red flags in the future. I'm finding boundaries are much easier to set when one person isn't in the midst of infatuation.

That said, I do think you express some definite concerns. If he is pressuring and doing "non-friendlike" things, that is definitely something she needs to address. But I think SHE is the one that needs to do it. And if she doesn't think she does... why is that? If a good girlfriend was treating her this way would she think it was OK? If not... then her judgment might be a little off when it comes to this person.

I'm finding myself that I'm having to express some concerns and then back away and let my husband handle things. It may not be the way I would, but he's got to figure things out for himself. It's hard, because I feel protective of him.
 
Minxxa, you have some very good advice to offer, and I agree with you - even as one more in the position of mama.

It is so hard to see clearly when wearing the rose colored glasses - whether of denial, new love, new infatuation, new lust, new friendship - and getting attention from another man when one has been in a LTR is fresh and exhilarating. I feel like my femininity is reinforced - another man finds me attractive? Yay! I still have "it", whetever the elusive "it" is that women subconciously lose or miss as love in a LTR morphs and changes from the fireworks it was in the beginning.

Transit, I can also see how the seven year itch would come into play - I have been with BF for 8 years now, and though I approached poly with him several years ago (when I finally discovered the term and figured out that what I was feeling was actually a valid and somewhat common occurence), I have felt more of an urge to proceed with it and try to engage him in communication about it this year. I don't remember who it was on the boards who has said "you proceed at the pace of the slowest partner" (maybe Red Pepper or NYCIndie), but that is the hardest part for me. Once I figured out the terminology, I took off with research at a full on sprint, and have not let up since. Then I step back and see how much he still has to absorb, and how much I have thrown at him, and how much he must love me for him to be accepting of all of this within the last few months - and it is amazing how much it has reinforced our love for each other and reopened paths of communication that I though I would never get from him. (Love really is infinite:))

I have never tried to look up an old lover/BF, so I am not exactly in mama's shoes, but I have one in mind, and I can imagine how it would feel to reconnect - the NRE, the giddiness, the sexting, the pics. (He was an MP, so I have very good memories of him, as a matter of fact. :D Yum . . . but I digress.) I also know myself well enough, though, to see that if he took a position of manipulation in order to create something that wasn't already there, or to keep something going that couldn't, I would not stand for it. Manipulation, in my book, usually indicates ulterior motives, and ulterior motives are not good for any of the parties involved.

That being said, and with Minxxa's advice, you may not be able to help mama see any of this - she may simply have to get burned and walk away from this situation that much wiser:

If he is pressuring and doing "non-friendlike" things, that is definitely something she needs to address. But I think SHE is the one that needs to do it.

It sounds like she is communicating her perceived unhappiness (in her relationship with you) with him rather than with you. Taking him out of the picture would certainly help, but she still may withhold information from you because she may not know how to say it to you, or even exactly what her unhappiness is. She then feels the NRE with BF, and it almost highlights and exaggerates the perceived unhappiness in the marriage, and she may see this unhappiness as insurmountable, thus leading to her comments to BF about leaving you though she had never brought this up to you.

I think she is seeing this renewed relationship with her BF through the rose colored glasses, and is not seeing anything negative in his behaviors of the last day or so - just as Minxxa pointed out:

I think often the partner who is not in NRE can see red flags a little more clearly. I also think that it can be difficult to express those red flags to the partner and have them listen-- both because they are caught up in NRE AND because it can get jumbled into the "you're jealous and are trying to see bad things" pile.

I hope that you two still plan to have some alone time upon your return? There is some definite hashing out that needs to take place, and some communication doors that need to be opened or perhaps knocked down. I don't know if there is an easy approach to it, as some of what she said was heard from the BF and not from her lips to your ears. Personally, I would have tissue handy, and the kids out of the house, as there may be some crying and other emotions running rampant. Hashing out issues that happened while one partner was away for an extended period cannot possibly be simple - I can only imagine, and wish you lots of luck.

(I was a psychology major and communications minor for three years before changing to accounting and finance - so I tend to overanalyze a lot. :) Please let me know if I am being a buttinski.)

>^^<
 
I'm pretty sure the NRE isn't the problem. I think it faded and that's what caused the break up in the first place. she knows exactly what he is doing but just wants to look past it because she doesn't want to lose him as a friend. she has even told both me and him that we shouldn't talk for a few days because she doesn't want us to argue.

I think my biggest concern is what I like to call the campfire effect. it burns hot and tall. once it dies down it's still dangerous because the embers and heat are still there. if it's not treated carefully, it can reflash and start burning all over again. the only way to completely eliminate the risk of a new fire is by dousing it with water. if they start right back up into the same old routine, there's the chance of a new fire.

I'm not ready for a new fire yet. the embers from fire that almost burned our marriage are still there, and I'm still not even home yet.

thanks for the inputs. I'm biding my time right now.
 
today has been an ok day for me. mama is back in NY again. I know she says she isn't going to do anything with the ex BF/ new FWB but I'm not entirely sure I trust her. I feel horrible for saying that but she has gone behind my back with him more than once and it's something that still bothers me and probably will for some time. I'm not letting on to her how I feel because I want her to have a good time.

I got to skype with her for a few minutes today but we had a sandstorm rolling through so my connection was real shitty. I'm supposed to call her later, maybe I'll feel better then.

I should be catching a plane out f here in 10 days or so hopefully :D
 
well, I talked to mama on the phone last night. I don't feel any better. she had a friend babysit the kids so she could go to a local zumba class. I'm fine with that. then she told me she went to BF's brothers house (who knows about them) without the kids and BF was there. she didn't say if anything happened, but that doesn't mean nothing happened. she has had a bad habit of lying to me about things involving him. she uses the excuse that I'll be ashamed, but I don't buy it.

why do I feel like the fire is going to be reignited while she is there? I'm not sure I can handle this again!!!
 
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