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  #11  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:04 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Sorry to hear about the violence, that does change things. You are not in the wrong. He physically threatened and attacked you, that puts him totally in the wrong. You are right to seek counseling, so that you can find courage. I agree with the others that it is time to break up with him.

Hang in there.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:55 AM
Taramafor Taramafor is offline
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Sorry to hear about the violence, that does change things. You are not in the wrong. He physically threatened and attacked you, that puts him totally in the wrong. You are right to seek counseling, so that you can find courage. I agree with the others that it is time to break up with him.

Hang in there.
Being blunt. Not your call to make. People attack each other in other relationships and yet can still end up making things work out. I also don't view anyone in the "right" or "wrong" because everyone has their reasons. There's a lot of other factors at play beyond what's on the surface.

That said there's certainty heightened stress and anger levels from him. "Monsters" I can understand. Abuse even. I actually have an ex that wanted to stick me with knives (on best of terms now. Just to add some context to where I'm coming from). But if it's gotten to "lashing out without control" then even I'd question if it's worth the risk/danger. At least when someone wants to get payback with me and tells me how they feel and what they want to do I can say I'm aware. The way I see the situation it's like this. Would THEY be able to live with themselves if they got THAT out of line? And by this I mean to the point of something irreversible, like permanent harm or even death in the heat of the moment. There's your well being, which is important to look after, but it's also his. If nothing else I say consider getting out of dodge for THEIR sake as much as yours. Guilt from doing stupid shit and all that.

On the other hand if you don't care about him anymore (which you probably do despite the situation if my own past experiences is anything to go by) then simply play the "he's dead to be and abandoned forever" card. Personally I always keep the door open because I know how painful that can be. Not about to open that door for someone that isn't aware of what they're doing and not trying to be in control though.

I also think that thinking in terms of "cheating" might have factored into arguments to begin with. If it hadn't been arguments I fear worse events may have transpired. Being "restricted" is NOT something that is "auto applied". Cheating is when you SAY you're not going to do something and then do it. Yet at the same time everyone can change their mind, especially if something happen sin the future that had not been considered to even be a possibility, like falling for someone else as well. Lot of factors at play. Ultimately it boils down to wherever you trust someone to be there for you even if they're with others or not. So I ask if this person was trusted to be there without having his shoulder peeked over or if the "neglect concerns" factored into the anger and stress levels which factored into the attack.

And no, I'm not taking his side. But the other side of the fence has been beaten with a stick as it is. I have to examine the situation from a logical and unbiased standpoint. If something you did resulted in bad communication (and of course I'm sure he's made more then his fair share of mistakes too) then I will call it into question. Attacks aside if thinking in terms of cheating when you're with someone happens again it might cause them to become depressed. Which can be just as bad if not worse. I have neglect concerns too and have to call myself into question when with someone new every time, but I don't think "Will either of us cheat". I think "Others they know matter and others I know matter. I'm going to get us to matter too."

Last edited by Taramafor; 07-23-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:18 AM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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it may be to late to repair the relationship. I assumed it was cheating and emotionally exploded. In addition during our argument my partner shoved me over a set of chairs and threatened me. He has had some issues with drinking and this recent physical abuse is painful. Based on the my erroneous perspective...should I call and apologize?
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Originally Posted by MsEmotional View Post
No.
I would get out of this relationship as soon as possible. Physical violence is never okay and, in my opinion, is a hard limit that never results in a second chance. Please get yourself to a safe location and consider filing a police report.
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Thank you. I think I am starting to understand about domestic violence. As a victim you have a tendency to blame yourself. I have been afraid to go to the police but I will seek counseling and hopefully find courage.
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Sorry to hear about the violence, that does change things. You are not in the wrong. He physically threatened and attacked you, that puts him totally in the wrong. You are right to seek counseling, so that you can find courage. I agree with the others that it is time to break up with him.
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Originally Posted by Taramafor View Post
Being blunt. Not your call to make. People attack each other in other relationships and yet can still end up making things work out. I also don't view anyone in the "right" or "wrong" because everyone has their reasons. There's a lot of other factors at play beyond what's on the surface.

Ultimately, only the OP can decide how much she's willing to put up with and what to do about the abusive situation (leave, report to police, get counselling etc.)

However, I beg to differ with a few of your assertions, Taramafor: there IS a "right" and a "wrong" in Brooklyn's situation and others like it. Regardless of whether the OP's partner cheated or didn't, and regardless of whether she had an emotional meltdown during an argument, it is NEVER OKAY to get violent with a partner, or to threaten them with physical harm or any other sort of reprisal for something that was done against them (i.e. Brooklyn's partner had sex with somebody else without telling her for six weeks. Whether or not that was "cheating" is debatable, but imho, the behaviour wasn't transparent, honest or particularly ethical.)

And then there's the partner's drinking problem and tendency to lash out in anger when their actions are called into question.

What's more, in the context of this thread, the advice given by other posters was spot-on and WAS certainly their "call" to make, considering the OP specifically asked for advice on this issue.
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Last edited by lunabunny; 07-23-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:26 AM
Taramafor Taramafor is offline
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there IS a "right" and a "wrong"
There is law, yes, but that's another matter.

The ultimate question I present to you is this. "Who decides?" In the end we only decide for ourselves. And even then there's still reasons and ultimately it might not even be a decision at all despite best efforts to change a situation. There's also what's harmful and counterproductive and what gets positive results too. But everyone struggles. Everyone also has "good intention" that can be easily confused with "Knowing better for them" (trust me, it's a common mistake in relationships).

Everyone struggles. Is it "wrong" to be human? I can name countless situation where it can be seen as "the most wrong" by many. Think physical assault is the most harmful thing ever? Nope. It's harmful of course but no more or less so then other events that can lead to bad events.

Also adding there is such a thing as positive violence and harm (including but not limited to S/M. People that currently love me once wanted to kill me too). Among fear. When controlled. You're not winning that argument. I endured it at first (eg: others being human) and now I even enjoy it (in different ways then what is negatively harmful of course), provided "worrying about concerns" isn't a factor. It's a matter of outletting those emotions in a positive manner and making the best of things instead of always bottling them up with each other. More on the receiving end of things myself. Turn worst times into best. Course, if someone thinks they can just walk up to me and abuse me when I don't like them then I just get out of dodge. But if I care about someone then I understand (If they're lashing out uncontrolled I won't like it though). Others also understand me when I say I might become a monster myself and reassure me they wouldn't abandon me when I feel like I might be a danger (never been that much of one, but don't discount the possibility. Especially if I suspect I might lose my sanity due to depression). Though if I see something as "negatively harmful" then I point out how it brings such harm and how it might be avoided. The way people think and what they say tends to cause more harm in my experience. Or at least leads to the path of negative harm. There's a reason they say the pen is mightier then the sword. I'm lucky and can get people to admit when they're thinking things that aren't true. Change their "thinking habits". Others can be used to the illusion of what they prefer. Using "I'm me" as an excuse to not consider the reasons of things.

Regardless, I don't view things in right and wrong. So no, there isn't a right or wrong for me. You do something, there was a reason for it (or many). Can you make the effort to try not to again? Is it wrong when you fail and snap? Is it as easy as you might think when it might be difficult as hell for them? Now the question I ask here is if YOU lectured someone about how "wrong" they are which isn't productive to getting someone to want to listen to you. It honestly can be a delicate art to talk to someone about how... flawed they are without coming across as though you're attacking what they did. Many like to think they have that talent, fewer actually do. It also requires BOTH sides knowing exactly where they're at fault and admitting it (to themselves and each other. Former is more difficult) so they can work things out. Not just going "You're to blame". One could as easily say "You made me attack you for thinking things about me that aren't true". Obviously no one made anyone do anything. But irrational thinking can be just as dangerous as a physical attack. Note: Irrational thinking in general. Not just cheating. I can panic easily myself too. Never turns into anger for my part, but that's me. Turns into depression if anything. Still on you if you thought or did something that harmed me though, even if it's not physical. Me too if I do it. Frankly I got sanity to worry about. Should I start going about how wrong a lot of people are for doing that then? I have yet to see "You're wrong" change anyone's mind. I always see "Action and reaction" ending better. Personally I'd rather understand they're afraid which can lead to anger. Now that's not an excuse to do stupid shit of course but fear is always the ultimate reason. It leads to anger. As well as sadness. Funny how people often fixate on anger and act like "It's their own problem" when someone makes another sad. Which can potentially risk leading to being suicidal. No one's obligated, everyone is responsible for how they affect others. I actually say this as someone that once didn't make enough of an effort with someone that killed themselves. I no longer "blame" myself (and this should clue you in as to why I don't put up with blame anywhere. Other factors at play I'll not get into) but I AM responsible for being a reason that lead to the event. All I can do is learn from it.

Start being seen as wrong and it's only a matter of time until you start thinking "it's wrong to be you". Can speak from experience on that account. Understood the ex blaming me. Easier that way. But man, I should have made it about responsibility. Not "self blame" (which was a result of HER blaming me. Hence my concern with anyone blaming anyone. Always counterproductive). It's because I know what it's like to hate "yourself" that I know what people that get angry go through. Or the destination they will ultimately reach if they keep lashing out at least. Others aside it's not pretty for them. Instead of "being seen" as a freak (which, let's face it, you are doing) you start seeing yourself as that freak. I don't think in right and wrong but I don't think anyone deserves that either.

Last edited by Taramafor; 07-23-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:57 AM
powerpuffgrl1969 powerpuffgrl1969 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taramafor View Post
But irrational thinking can be just as dangerous as a physical attack. Note: Irrational thinking in general. Not just cheating. I can panic easily myself too. Never turns into anger for my part, but that's me.
Irrational thinking doesn't land you in the morgue.

I am COMPLETELY with Luna and the others on this. Violence doesn't tend to be a "one-off" thing. Once someone knows they can get away with it, the next time it becomes easier to go there. . . then easier. It really is a Pandora's Box.

Forgiveness and reconciliation can come only after some intense counseling, if then.
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  #16  
Old 07-23-2018, 01:54 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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In my opinion, and this is a matter of semantics, "positive harm" is a contradiction in terms. If something is harmful, it causes damage to someone, either physically or emotionally, or sometimes both. Damage is not positive.

S&M can cause positive *hurt*; it's painful, but it's consensual pain. It's something the party on the receiving end has CHOSEN, and it can be beneficial to that person in some ways. Someone on the receiving end of abuse and damaging behavior hasn't chosen. They weren't asked for consent. Someone just decided to start using them as a physical or emotional punching bag. And it doesn't benefit the person on the receiving end in ANY way. (Note: I am a submissive, and I am a masochist. I speak from experience, research, and knowledge gained from others in that lifestyle.)

Your experiences are your own, Taramafor, and if it helps you to view things the way you do, more power to you. But I think you are not going to find much agreement here that "positive harm" is a thing, or that there is no "right or wrong" in a situation where someone got drunk, lost their temper, and physically assaulted their partner. Physical assault is not "right." It is also not S&M, because again, assault is something that is done without choice or consent on the part of the person receiving it.
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  #17  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:01 PM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post

Your experiences are your own, Taramafor, and if it helps you to view things the way you do, more power to you. But I think you are not going to find much agreement here that "positive harm" is a thing, or that there is no "right or wrong" in a situation where someone got drunk, lost their temper, and physically assaulted their partner. Physical assault is not "right." It is also not S&M, because again, assault is something that is done without choice or consent on the part of the person receiving it.
That person is so obviously trolling, that i can see the sales of bridges increasing all the way from my armchair.

I wouldn't be surprised if /u/Taramafor is the OP's boyfriend.

Last edited by ref2018; 07-23-2018 at 03:07 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:44 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Originally Posted by Taramafor View Post
There is law, yes, but that's another matter.

Think physical assault is the most harmful thing ever? Nope.

Also adding there is such a thing as positive violence and harm (including but not limited to S/M. People that currently love me once wanted to kill me too).

But if I care about someone then I understand (If they're lashing out uncontrolled I won't like it though). .

Regardless, I don't view things in right and wrong. Is it wrong when you fail and snap? I have yet to see "You're wrong" change anyone's mind.

You can try to spin this debate any which way, Taramafor, but the fact remains that (non-consensual) violence against another person is WRONG: legally, morally, ethically; and immensely harmful emotionally, mentally and physically - regardless of whatever "reasons" the person may feel they have for doing so.

Violence and uncontrolled lashing out breeds FEAR in any relationship - whether it's spousal or intimate partner abuse, parental abuse or violence between "friends" or acquaintances.

The very love that the relationship was founded on, in conjunction with the fear engendered by physical violence (whether it's a sporadic/rare occurrence or a regular event) is what often causes the abused partner to feel confused about the reality of the situation, and seek to understand their partner's "reasons"... because acknowledging they CHOSE to do them harm is too painful to bear. This is where we see partners (often female, but not always) deciding "there are worse things in life" and forgiving their abusive mate over and over, to their ultimate detriment.

It IS indeed the responsibility of the person who hit/pushed/punched/lashed out to "own" their behaviour, and realise they have an anger management problem (whether fuelled by alcohol, substances, depression, jealousy, whatever it may be) and GET HELP for it, before they harm either their partner or anyone else ever again. And it most certainly is the right of the party who was harmed to decide their partner's behaviour was unacceptable ("wrong") and demand they seek that help, to leave the relationship, and/or to report such incidents to the relevant authorities, especially if they feel they, or anyone else, may be in danger from this person in the future. (Or even if they feel the person may be a danger to themselves.)

"Positive harm" or positive violence is BS. No good comes of behaviour that is both personally unacceptable and criminal. Does it mean you no longer love the person that inflicted damage? Not necessarily. Does it mean you "hate" them and wish terrible things upon them? Of course not (although this would be understandable in some instances.)
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 50, heteroflexible
Jester: M, 59, straight, primary partner (LD)
Boho: F, 57, heteroflexible, primary partner (LD)

Red: M, 53, straight, ex-husband
Bud: early 20s, son
Lola: early 20s, daughter

Last edited by lunabunny; 07-23-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:45 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Originally Posted by ref2018 View Post
That person is so obviously trolling, that i can see the sales of bridges increasing all the way from my armchair.

I wouldn't be surprised if /u/Taramafor is the OP's boyfriend.

Or one of our recent "contributors" in disguise...
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 50, heteroflexible
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Bud: early 20s, son
Lola: early 20s, daughter
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  #20  
Old 07-23-2018, 05:02 PM
JasonJones JasonJones is offline
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"positive Harm". Kids these days will try to spin anything... Devil's advocate even. There is no devil with this one. Whats wrong is wrong no matter how you slice it. No spin. The logic of some to see the "other side" of things astounds me. There are some things that there are no "positive spin" Domestic violence is one of them. Do people make poor judgments. Yup. Those people need to own up to that, work on fixing themselves and not try to positively spin something that is unquestionable bad. Own it and work to be a better human. SMH.

-Jay
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