Not on board with this, but want him to be happy

I don't think making sure my partner need are met and they are happy means buttering them up. It kind of poly 101 that this I required for a good polyship.
 
I don't think making sure my partner need are met and they are happy means buttering them up. It kind of poly 101 that this I required for a good polyship.

It's not only necessary for a good polyship, it's necessary for a good relationship in general. To me, any relationship means I am meeting needs and making someone happy - whether it is me personally that is needed or me encouraging/aiding/supporting another relationship that is needed.
 
isn't that what poly generally is? Buttering up our partners so they will consent to other relationships? I know it sounds coercive but that is the nuts and bolts of it. Showing sufficient loving actions so nobody feels left out or slighted. Ultimately the only way to ever get consent from ANYONE that you deem it necessary to get it from requires some level of buttering up and convincing.
I pity anyone whose partner views it this way.
 
I pity anyone whose partner views it this way.

Why is that? I'm genuinely curious to hear what it is you find objectionable about this particular description of interacting.
 
I don't think making sure my partner need are met and they are happy means buttering them up. It kind of poly 101 that this I required for a good polyship.

the thing you are leaving out is CONVINCING your partner. You see, meeting their needs and making them happy are the easy part. I had been doing that successfully for close to 20 years with my wife. But when you try to cross over from monogamy into poly, then meeting needs is rarely sufficient. You have to try to CONVINCE your partner. That's the hard part. any time you want to convince, buttering up is usually the protocol along with logical reasoning. Anyone who claims they haven't had to butter up or bend over backwards to keep a partner from getting overly dramatic due to the poly nature of their relationship is truly lucky and I suspect in the minority.
 
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My husband suggested poly to me - and he has decided to remain monogamous. There was no convincing or buttering up. We read about it and researched it together and then I started out dating.

My boyfriend was not coerced - he knew from the time he first messaged me that I was poly. He took some time to think it through before moving forward with our relationship, because he had always been in monogamous ones. I did not try to convince him either way - who I was and what I am about is fairly obvious and my actions speak for themselves. He asked questions, I answered and he decided he wanted to pursue me.

Coercion has no place in my poly whatsoever.
 
Coercion has no place in my poly whatsoever.

I'm consistently amazed at how frequently this word is thrown into a discussion. Coercion has no business in any discussion but one in which one party is threatening intentional and malicious harm to another party (which no one has described as yet).

I never had to convince my partner. We agreed to enter into an open relationship from the start.

My interest in this conversation currently is the negative opinion of one partner picking the positive aspects of an ideal and presenting it to their partner in the hopes that their partner will look upon it fondly. That is what we seem to be talking about and I'm curious to know where the villainy is in presenting the positive parts of ones argument if they want their argument to be received positively?

Is being persuasive now something that we as healthy human beings should avoid?
 
I pity anyone whose partner views it this way.

Why is that? I'm genuinely curious to hear what it is you find objectionable about this particular description of interacting.

I was caught by the term "buttering up."

To butter someone up is pretty much bribing or manipulating them to get what one wants. We butter people up with flattery, praise, and special treatment hoping for special favors in return. When we butter someone up, we do nice things not because we simply want to treat them nicely, but because we think that will get us what we want.

I feel sorry for the people whose partners approach them that way because to do so seems, to me, to take their intelligence and hearts for granted. Personally, I want to be treated nicely and with respect all the time, not just when a favor is wanted in return, and I expect that a partner would trust that I can handle difficult or challenging discussions about our relationship without feeding me candy (so to speak) to get the outcome they hope for. It seems narrow-minded.

Graviton's statement also expressed a very couple-centric viewpoint, which always rubs me the wrong way.
 
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Is being persuasive now something that we as healthy human beings should avoid?

Yes. Generally we are taught that we should pressure people into turning their "no" into a "yes". This is part of the rape culture problem, believe it or not. Sure, ask someone to do something and maybe highlight why you think it will be beneficial for them. But, as soon as you get into a situation where you are having to persuade someone to do something, you're losing the chance of gaining enthusiastic consent.
 
I was caught by the term "buttering up."

To butter someone up is pretty much bribing or manipulating them to get what one wants. We butter people up with flattery, praise, and special treatment hoping for special favors in return. When we butter someone up, we do nice things not because we simply want to treat them nicely, but because we think that will get us what we want.

I feel sorry for the people whose partners approach them that way because to do so seems, to me, to take their intelligence and hearts for granted. Personally, I want to be treated nicely and with respect all the time, not just when a favor is wanted in return, and I expect that a partner would trust that I can handle difficult or challenging discussions about our relationship without feeding me candy (so to speak) to get the outcome they hope for. It seems narrow-minded.

Graviton's statement also expressed a very couple-centric viewpoint, which always rubs me the wrong way.

indeed it is very couple centric. From what I have read and witnessed on these forums, poly is almost always entered into from the state of a monogamous, couple centric ideal. Its how most of us have been socialized and it is very hard to reprogram out of us. Call it what you will. But this forum is loaded with coercion and buttering up. Yes most of it is unhealthy. That is because an already existing couple frequently fall into an unhealthy feedback loop when one partner wants poly and the other (frequently) is reluctant.
 
the thing you are leaving out is CONVINCING your partner. You see, meeting their needs and making them happy are the easy part. I had been doing that successfully for close to 20 years with my wife. But when you try to cross over from monogamy into poly, then meeting needs is rarely sufficient. You have to try to CONVINCE your partner. That's the hard part. any time you want to convince, buttering up is usually the protocol along with logical reasoning. Anyone who claims they haven't had to butter up or bend over backwards to keep a partner from getting overly dramatic due to the poly nature of their relationship is truly lucky and I suspect in the minority.

My husband suggested poly to me - and he has decided to remain monogamous. There was no convincing or buttering up. We read about it and researched it together and then I started out dating.

My boyfriend was not coerced - he knew from the time he first messaged me that I was poly. He took some time to think it through before moving forward with our relationship, because he had always been in monogamous ones. I did not try to convince him either way - who I was and what I am about is fairly obvious and my actions speak for themselves. He asked questions, I answered and he decided he wanted to pursue me.

Coercion has no place in my poly whatsoever.

I never had to convince Hubby to try an open marriage, swinging, or polyamory. Despite identifying as primarily monogamous, *he* was the one who suggested all of those things. The only convincing involved was Hubby convincing me that yes, he really was okay with the idea of me having sex with other men, and later on that yes, he really was okay with me being in love with and having a romantic relationship with Guy. That didn't involve any "buttering up", just reassurances that the changes in our marriage wouldn't be the *end* of our marriage.

Guy knew the situation from the first night he and I met, when he thought Hubby had a problem with him talking to me. When I said that to Hubby, he took Guy aside and said, "Whatever she's okay with, I'm okay with."

Although Hubby had sex with another woman early on in the open marriage thing, he is more comfortable being sexually exclusive and monogamous with me, but is also completely accepting of the fact that I'm not wired that way. I've never had to convince or persuade him of anything.
 
But, as soon as you get into a situation where you are having to persuade someone to do something, you're losing the chance of gaining enthusiastic consent.

Hmm, I disagree. Just because something wasn't someone's *original* choice, doesn't mean that once they have made a new choice they are *necessarily* going to lack enthusiastic consent. In some ways it depends on the reasoning behind the original choice.

IE... Person 1 wants person 2 to do action X, and Person 2's reason for not doing Action X is Reason Y. Person 1 "persuades" Person 2 that Reason Y is mistaken for Reasons Y1, Y2 and Y3. Person 2 then says "Yes! In that case I want to do Action X!" I think that still counts.

I understand your *point* re rape culture, etc, but I just think it's not always true. That said, pressure / coercion is a Very Bad Thing.
 
Hmm, I disagree. Just because something wasn't someone's *original* choice, doesn't mean that once they have made a new choice they are *necessarily* going to lack enthusiastic consent. In some ways it depends on the reasoning behind the original choice.

IE... Person 1 wants person 2 to do action X, and Person 2's reason for not doing Action X is Reason Y. Person 1 "persuades" Person 2 that Reason Y is mistaken for Reasons Y1, Y2 and Y3. Person 2 then says "Yes! In that case I want to do Action X!" I think that still counts.

I understand your *point* re rape culture, etc, but I just think it's not always true. That said, pressure / coercion is a Very Bad Thing.
No, it doesn't mean that it was definitely coerced and therefore invalid consent, but the longer someone has had to be persuaded to give consent, the more likely it is that coercion played a role in their decision.

This doesn't mean that you should never take that sort of yes as a yes, but it is something you have to bear in mind. That kind of yes is more likely to be revoked later on.
 
Let me clear the air by saying that I am not being physically abused, emotional is up for debate some days, but not physically in danger. Thank you for being concerned and helpful in that way and I will keep it in mind that that was thought of when I shared about the situation for the future.

I would agree that sometimes there's a grey area / overlap between unhealty relationship practices and emotional abuse and they can get confused.

I was able to sit down with him and the girlfriend separately and together and share a bit of what I was feeling and why. I explained the emotions that I was having as best I could(thank you for links, Galagirl, most helpful). While they didn't understand everything I shared they at least agreed that whatever emotions I have are valid, real, and worth considering. My husband and I agreed that he had been neglecting my needs and that needed to be corrected. He and GF agreed to take a break for a week to give he and I space to repair what we can and spend time together.

I have to admit to a some personal bias as Wife also surprised me with the news she'd fallen for another guy online after the fact and I had the choices of a poly marriage or a divorce. I chose to continue the marriage rather than lose my family. That online liaison soon fizzled out and we're still dealing with the aftermath of the cheating and feeling forced into a “My Way / The Highway” type of situation. I'm glad you were able to communicate with him and get a little space. I'm hoping all of you can get to a comfortable place regarding this. If not, please don't twist yourself emotionally into a pretzel trying to force yourself to be okay with something that really doesn't sit well with you. In my experience, that causes more pain. I've often compared polyamory to “Emotional Yoga”. If you're new to it, it's MUCH better to s-l-o-w-l-y progress rather than jump too far / too fast to advanced positions and causing injury.

Good luck.
 
indeed it is very couple centric. From what I have read and witnessed on these forums, poly is almost always entered into from the state of a monogamous, couple centric ideal.

Well, I don't think anyone should assume that poly "almost always" starts out a certain way, or what poly "generally is" for everyone, based only upon the demographic of frequent posters on this forum. There are many more lurkers here, whose stories we don't know, than there are active participants - and even if you count all of them, it's still just a small cross-section of polyfolk everywhere. Plenty of unpartnered solo people, folks who have always been non-monogamous in some form (and people who never post on internet bulletin boards or join poly groups), engage in poly without having to bribe and cajole anyone into giving them what they want. And if a monogamous couple does choose to open their relationship, I think it is a bit mean-spirited and ignorant of the many paths there are to adopting a polyamorous approach to relationships, to say that buttering up a reluctant partner is usually how it happens. Believe it or not, many monos are open-minded and do have good, strong, solid relationships in which honest communication, respect, and consideration for each other are how they make agreements, and how moving to polyamory starts out.
 
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NYcyndie I agree with you. I am a lurker who has been in a mono relationship for years. Without getting into the very longgggg story, I am now figuring out if my husband and I can move on with a poly life-taking it slow. My husband "finding" someone else he connects with has been difficult but our relationship has changed in many ways-much for the better. I find this whole forum amazing and enlightening.
 
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