Just LR

NYC, I thought the very same thing when I read that. It's deflection. There's that saying about doing the same thing and expecting different results. Contracts at this point are just setting everyone up for failure. I don't think either of you are stable enough to follow through. Until each of you can get ahold of yourselves you won't be able to break the cycle that you have both created.

I bowed out of posting on this board because ... Well I have no poly relationship to speak about. My poly is done, but I have continued to pop in and check on those I have grown to care about. It saddens me that I have experience in this all too familiar toxic cycle. Seeing a couple I have grown to look up to going through this I couldn't not post.
 
Here's the baseline reality.

There isn't a way for us to have NO contact without totally fucking over at least one child.

So, we don't have a choice but to make an agreement to not discuss the shit that sends us spiraling through the nasty, painful, b.s cycle we've gotten into.

Yes, we could fuck over the one child who would lose everything if we did that. However, that one child deserves better-and he's going to get it-if it kills me.

Yes, I meant that-if it KILLS me.

I'm not sending this boy back to his mother.
I'm not making him leave his siblings-the only people he's TRULY bonded to, just because he's not mine.

If I had to suffer rape EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE for him to have the chances that he has now-becuase of me entering his life-I would.

Fortunately, I don't have to do that.

BUT, I do have to find a way to work around the issues in our lives and get along.
Stay in a poly dynamic? Not a requirement.
Stay married? Not a requirement.
Be lovers? Not a requirement.

Find a way to get along-that's a requirement and it has to happen RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

So, while I do understand what you are saying-no, I'm not taking the advice in full.

I found the only part I could take and used it.
We aren't discussing the issues between us unless we're with a therapist.

That means NOT AT ALL. No complaining, no bitching, no whining, no asking, no demanding.
It pretty much means "if you don't have anything nice to say, shut the fuck up" (not to you all, between he and I).

From what I gather from him-he thinks I'm dead on right on this topic. (there are a few things we have come to agree on implicitly over the years).

As for why I stay,
because to be flat honest-all of the things in that list are over and done. We've learned from them and we've grown from them and they aren't continuing.

My point in bringing them up wasn't to malign the man that Maca is today.
My point was that we ALL fucked up and we ALL need some grace.

Maca is struggling because he doesn't want to offer GG grace, but he has been willing to accept it for himself. That's self-rightous and it's wrong. Furthermore-he knows it is. Like it or not, he knows it's wrong. He just doesn't want it to be.

There is no doubt about the fact that I fucked Maca over by having the affair and I'm not even going to start defending myself over it. It was wrong, it was heartless and it was unfair. At the very least I could have simply said it was over, walked away and done what I thought I needed to do.
But I was selfish and I didn't go that route.

If Maca wants to be "just friends" and call it good on the marriage-so be it.
But, he still owes it to HIMSELF-to grant GG the grace he longs to have for himself. Because as long as he's holding a grudge, he can't FEEL that the grace has already been given.

As for who has done the most damage.
Who cares?
The damage was done.

I don't believe in "it's over".
There is no "over" unless you give up-and I don't give up.
So, while I respect the fact that other people believe that there is a point where you just have to walk away-I don't believe that, never have and if I ever do, that time isn't here yet. Thus, it's pointless to waste breath suggesting it.

Not that I don't grasp the heart of the suggestion, but the bottomline for me is that I know Maca's heart-and I know mine. Giving up isn't going to happen.
 
Good people do bad things. I hope you two can learn to forgive yourselves and each other.

You both strike me as good people. I really hope you both get to a point where you can choose to be happy instead of being right.

I agree with NYCindie, and Ilove2men,.... read her statement over and over until it truly sinks in. How will you know ? You might actually feel defeated for a bit. That would be a good sign,...surrender yourself to a different way of being, and thinking.

Maybe its the word 'contract'. It sounds so negative in trust. Like the beginning to the end, rather then the hope for a new beginning.

Might want to call it a 'agreement',...as to make sure in all the hussle and talk, that it is written out, so nobody forgets. (innocently, and while under stress) what they agreed to.

Less legal, more love.


Best wishes.
 
Sourgirl-between us, we didn't call it an anything.
But, how do you write online that you created a _________ that covers each other getting what they need FOR RIGHT NOW without a word. I chose contract because it covered that it was an agreement, deeper meaning to both of us than "agreement" normally means (they're commonly broken) and more signficaint to each of us in terms of importance.

Obviously I didn't write out every word.

But-the point was that we took the suggestions, created something that was workable within the limitations of our circumstances and agreed that we'd make it "law" for the next 6 months so that we can each get the space from the things we need space from (like him not having to deal with the romantic relationhip I have with GG-and me not having to fear that if we see each other it's goign to dissolve into an argument about GG).

Ironically-the one thing we've done that BOTH of us, GG and Mimi all thought was sane, rational and PRODUCTIVE (many things were ONE of the first two but not the last before this) seems to have set off a firestorm because I wrote about it.

The irony is-that we had to have SOME SORT OF agreement.
Even an agreement to not speak to each other requires an agreement.
Otherwise, one person keeps trying and the other continues to avoid which creates yet more drama.

We've made an agreement. It's not functional as a "lifetime plan". But it is functional for giving each of us a little space and distance from the conflict, bringing in an educated third party to help navigate through the issues we've been unable to resolve on our own, maintain stability for the kids AND the metamours as well as allowing us the chance to just relax....

FYI-we are good people. If he weren't a good people, I wouldn't be with him. If I weren't a good people, he wouldn't be with me.

That's the whole point-we both know we belong together, we both know we are good people. We just haven't figured out how to make it work smoothly. Kudos in that we're both willing to try.
 
Yes, we have children also so I understand and did not mean absolutely no contact. I meant put the breaks on until both of you can better handle this. It only feeds the cycle and agreements will continue to be broken.
 
I understood you. :)

That's why we made the agreement we made.

We agreed to maintain separate homes for at least 6 months, not talking about my relationship with GG, 1 day a week for no more than 2 hours to talk about our relationship issues, continue practicing the communication skills we've been learning-but using less "boiling" topics, working on our lists of what we want in life and marriage (that's for the therapist-so we CAN build a future), among other things.

But, the two biggest keys was agreeing to something that
isn't "every day shoving this shit down our throats",
isn't running away from it altogether and letting everything fall apart AND
isn't creating a neglected environment for the rest of the family.

:)

So far, so good. We've had a couple days of talking-no argument, no tension, no battle. Mostly-because we know that there is a time and place to address the issues we're struggling with-but this isn't it.

Without knowing a problem WILL be addressed, each passing day creates more anxiety as it's NOT addressed.
If you try to address it every day-you have no time to "be".

So-both ways create more problems.
This one allows for not becoming anxious that shit won't be addressed, without ruining every moment.
 
Thanks Ilove2men. :)

FYI-I do remember you from when you were a regular on here. ;)

We were talking about you actually, just a few weeks ago. (Maca and I)
 
Yes, I read what was going on, but still didn't want to post on here and couldn't remember your email so I sent Maca a message on facebook. Hehe you brought me out of the dark. It just feels weird to post on here now, ya know. Your agreement sounds like the perfect way to handle this. Congrats on the grandbaby, btw. X)
 
He's a cutie pie. :) He's almost two months already!
He and momma are out of state right now, won't see them again til the 21st of May. ;)
 
So far, so good. We've had a couple days of talking-no argument, no tension, no battle. Mostly-because we know that there is a time and place to address the issues we're struggling with-but this isn't it.

OMG! This has been such a help for us. There have been a few times I just threw up my hands and said "ENOUGH, we are going in circles, let's table it until we meet with the councelor". We were able to just table it, without all the constant negativity, because we both knew it wouldn't just be swept under the rug. It gave us hope that a resolution was forthcoming. In the meantime, we were able get back to day to day business and move on.

I do have to rembember write it down so I didn't forget about it once we get there days or weeks later.:p
 
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We agreed to maintain separate homes for at least 6 months, not talking about my relationship with GG, 1 day a week for no more than 2 hours to talk about our relationship issues, continue practicing the communication skills we've been learning-but using less "boiling" topics, working on our lists of what we want in life and marriage (that's for the therapist-so we CAN build a future), among other things.

This seems like a very reasonable and positive path to be on.

I hope I didn't come off too harshly in my previous comment -- I hesitated to post it because it was pretty blunt and I didn't want you to feel attacked, but in the end I decided it would be best to be straightforward about my take on the situation, on the off chance that maybe leaving would in fact be the best thing for you and it would help to get a nudge. Leaving my ex was the right thing for us and for our situation, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing for you guys or ever will be. I admire your ability to be so clear and articulate about what you're doing and why. :)
 
All I can say is WOW!!!!

I have a shit load of responses but to be honest... I just dont have the energy to write it all out. I read through all the newest posts lastnight, LR asked me to add my two cents, but to tell you the truth I was exhausted after reading all of it.:(

I know that most people mean well and are only trying to be helpful. I appreciate that and I wanted to say thank you. So, Thank you.

ILove2men- Ill FB you a more detailed message but, Your a sweet girl and Im very glad that you reached out and extended your friendship. Ill consider your words of advice with all the respect that you deserve.:) Thank you.

MrFFR- Apology accepted. It is very obvious that it was heart felt and real. I appreciate your words. I will come back and address some for your more pointed questions and comments.

I have several points to make and I will get around to making them. Right now Im in the process of repacking my stuff and moving to another place. One that is closer to the kids and better suited for having all 3 kids over for longer stays. It will put me closer to LR as well, which is somthing that I want and fear all at the same time.

There are MANY things that LR posted, that I either disagree with or that she misunderstands, about me or our relationship... Im not going to get into all that though. Im not going to start up the " But she did this or that" B.S. again ( thanks Ilove2men :rolleyes: ) But I will say that she is right about the fact that we cant "not" see eachother. We have to much we are still responsible for, to eachother, to our kids, to our family,to our selves.

I dont know how to make it make sense.... But we are drawn together by something stronger than desire. I could stop the physical connections , I would be unhappy and LR would go insane,but we would still be drawn to eachother and we would still have to talk and get along and see eachother.


Ill try to get back on and post more after the weekend ( once Im all moved in). Good luck to everyone.


Maca
 
Maca invited me to spend the night with him at his new place the first night he was there.
We moved furniture, cleaned, unpacked, organized. It's all ready for kids to visit now.
We had a good night, followed the rules to our agreement and enjoyed our time together.

He bought me a dessert from town that was great. :) YUMMY.

Today we moved trash to the dump and cleaned more of the garage and got a load to the thrift store.

:)
 
Maca invited me to spend the night with him at his new place the first night he was there.
We moved furniture, cleaned, unpacked, organized. It's all ready for kids to visit now.
We had a good night, followed the rules to our agreement and enjoyed our time together.

He bought me a dessert from town that was great. :) YUMMY.

Today we moved trash to the dump and cleaned more of the garage and got a load to the thrift store.

:)

Happy days. Glad the sleepover was a success of sorts. And thank you both for your time! It was great to hear Maca's voice! Funny putting sounds and images together! LOL! Anyway you were both a great help. 2Rings agrees that if it helps me then he's for it! HUGS!:D
 
Yay, almost like dating again! Did you and Maca date for a long time before getting married/moving in together?
 
Did you have sex? :p
 
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