Having trouble with definitions

Thank you of clarifying.

So how about just spend the night relaxing (ex: movies, board games = yes. Sex again = not yet, talk first.)

And heading home? And then schedule to talk later so you guys are not HALT? (hungry, anxous/angry, lonely, tired)

Then you can come to the conversation well rested rather than travel tired.

Galagirl
 
And then schedule to talk later so you guys are not HALT? (hungry, anxous/angry, lonely, tired)
Galagirl

I agree there are times to and times not to talk. Plan A is to talk. Plan B is I'm/we're too tired, we'll talk next time we're together in person. Plan C is... LOL.

The travel to their home is on the day after the course, so unless we do something stupid like staying up all night talking we should be ok. Its the imagery of it, and her stated assumption that we will have sex because we are staying in the same hotel. But from my side none of the plans involve further sex until I'm clear with her. I know the temptation will be there, but he and I have talked already about it not being on the table, and he is very respectful of that and won't push.
 
I don't know your friend, but the lack of discussion between them before you and he shared sex would make me uneasy as well. It makes it seem as if her encouragement was based on something she was feeling at the moment rather than a definitive concept.

One thing I learned is to listen carefully to anything she says she is afraid you might feel or do. When I was talking to my friend (and she and her husband had far more conversation than your friend and husband), she would say things like, "I'm a little nervous that if this doesn't work out, I am going to lose you." I could easily assure her that I would never let that happen. And I didn't. It never once occurred to me that she would in fact be the instrument of the thing she feared. It was she, in fact, who expelled me from their lives.

In other words, any fears expressed, realize that your friend may in fact feel and do the things that she seems to be attributing your potential actions.

Honestly, it seemed that my friend turned all of her concerns into a self fulfilling prophecy.
 
To answer your questions about terminology, it almost doesn't matter because from what she's said, it seems clear that she is basically telling you that she wants to be in control and managing your relationship with her husband and will not stand for you managing your own relationship with him. She only wants certain feelings to be allowed and not others. Which is, of course, insultingly ridiculous and nothing I would ever tolerate.

One of the other things we discussed that has been bothering me was a seeming lack of communication about safe sex, and I needed to clarify their general operating procedures in comparison to what (didn't) happen with me. The general rule turns out to be "stay safe", but he had specific permission to forgo that with me. (Which he says is indicative of her level of trust with me... which feels right, but then why the lesser trust other places? I'm not sure she knows the answer - he definitely doesn't). And while I'm glad THEY discussed it, I'm still concerned that it wasn't discussed with me.
Um, hello? You're concerned now??? Why didn't you discuss it with him at the time? You didn't need to talk it over with her first. For goodness sakes, you were naked with him and didn't say, "Hold on, where's the condom?" No sense in pointing blame at them for not playing it safe. If your sexual health and safety is a concern for you, guess who is responsible for that.
 
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I don't know your friend, but the lack of discussion between them before you and he shared sex would make me uneasy as well. It makes it seem as if her encouragement was based on something she was feeling at the moment rather than a definitive concept.

Yes, forethought is not always a strength for her, but because of other events we have managed to start this conversation. All three of us together and each pair are having some good - if hard, and painful - discussions. I think our time together at and after the course will be well spent.

In other words, any fears expressed, realize that your friend may in fact feel and do the things that she seems to be attributing your potential actions.

Honestly, it seemed that my friend turned all of her concerns into a self fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, that is a very common pattern in lots of relationships, not just poly. I've had mono boyfriends do the same thing.

Still, more talking with both of them yesterday leaves me the most hopeful I've been. But not ready to be all in.... Not yet. It's a big leap of faith, and I need to hear it and see it in her face, and together, all three of us, have some workable agreements, including how to renegotiate those agreements when needed.

We have agreed to do some reading about poly, before we start making agreements, so that we can avoid the types of agreements that are sure to fail. We are starting with More Than Two, which I'm about 70% through, and they are just starting. I've started some other books too (The Ethical Slut, Opening Up). I don't expect them to read everything I do (I'm a voracious reader, and have more time) but I'm hoping at least having one book - even just skim read - in common will help us with having a common vocabulary, if nothing else.
 
No sense in pointing blame at them for not playing it safe. If your sexual health and safety is a concern for you, guess who is responsible for that.

Yes, you are absolutely 100% right. And I don't blame them. We were all responsible for having that conversation, and we ALL failed at it. Including me.

I was swept away, I acknowledge that, and I made what could have been a bad decision. I've been tested since, and will repeat in 6 months to be sure, my doctor insists. The truth is I implicitly trusted him, as he did me, as she did me. And I am, still, very sure every test will come back clear. That doesn't make it ok though.

To answer your questions about terminology, it almost doesn't matter because from what she's said, it seems clear that she is basically telling you that she wants to be in control and managing your relationship with her husband and will not stand for you managing your own relationship with him. She only wants certain feelings to be allowed and not others. Which is, of course, insultingly ridiculous and nothing I would ever tolerate.

Which is about fear. As bookbug said, she was expressing fears not about what *I* would do, but about what *she* would do. And events not directly connected to me have broken through that and allowed us to start discuss her true fears instead of 'rules'. The fears that the rules were meant to contain are out in the open now and being discussed with some painful - but hopefully healing - honesty.

I was considering being willing to live under her 'rules' with a sunset clause, but new events have moved that out of the realm of possibility. I won't accept them any more, and he won't either. And she acknowledges why she had the fear, and understands why the rules were in place, but also why they wouldn't be effective.

We are now negotiating agreements with all of us having an equal voice. Which is where I had hoped we would get to, but was doubting was possible. And that doubt was feeding my own fear... which was getting circular! This feels much healthier.

PS. I love your R.A.H. quote. That is how I love. :)
 
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