Greetings from TN

She's having sex with someone else, in love with someone else, pushing your boundaries at every turn, wanting to demote you to secondary, wanting to have threesomes with someone else while you don't have sex with your wife at all...

What crisis was averted?
 
When I said "crisis averted" I meant me having to put my foot down and potentially put an end to the polyamory if she didn't respect my limits in this regard. This time, she did respect them. That's what I was referring to.
 
When I said "crisis averted" I meant me having to put my foot down and potentially put an end to the polyamory if she didn't respect my limits in this regard. This time, she did respect them. That's what I was referring to.

And if you put your foot down, she'd stop the polyamory?
 
Well, everyone has a limit with what they're comfortable with, so yes, I would do that if she insisted on something I'm not comfortable with, like >24 hour stays, or spending more time with him than with me. Keep in mind polyamory is only polyamory if both spouses agree to it. Otherwise, it's just adultery.
 
Well, everyone has a limit with what they're comfortable with, so yes, I would do that if she insisted on something I'm not comfortable with, like >24 hour stays, or spending more time with him than with me. Keep in mind polyamory is only polyamory if both spouses agree to it. Otherwise, it's just adultery.

I agree. My question, though, was: will SHE stop polyamory if you put your foot down?
 
Well, I suppose if I put my foot down the choice will be hers to continue a relationship I don't approve of or to discontinue it. In the first instance I would go ahead and start talking with an attorney about divorce. In the second instance, I would have her re-commit to our relationship until we are in a better place, emotionally and physically.
 
I guess I'd monitor the situation to make sure progress is still being made in the marital relationship between you and your wife. Keep the counsellor up to speed on your feelings, what improvements you'd like to see, and what improvements are actually happening.

It's good that the two of you came to a tolerable agreement regarding the 24-hour thing.
 
So here's what happened yesterday. I get home from work just in time to change clothes to get to my Ballroom dance lesson. It's W's turn to take care of the kids. She picked them up from preschool at about 5:30. When I get back from dance class, at about 8:00pm, I see her in the kitchen, the kids already in bed (earlier than normal), and I say "Hi, babe". I get no response, no acknowledgment that I'm even home. I can tell she's upset about something, so I ask, "Is this something you want to talk about?". She yells, "Do I LOOK like I want to talk about it?!". Very angry face. Stomps off toward the kids room. Later, I hear her mumble something about there being two hours of screaming (presumably her doing the screaming).

I leave her alone until our Skype counselling session. During the session, which was again mainly focused on her, she cries and talks about she's not happy, etc. Even though I'm giving her as much time away from me and the kids as I can tolerate. She is seeing them on average of about maybe two hours/day during her "guy" week. Maybe a little longer on the other week. Sometimes goes a stretch of 36 hours without seeing them at all.

Counsellor asks very insightful questions about what her dream life would be if she could have it. She answers with things like, "It doesn't do any good to imagine that, because I can't have it." Refusing to get into specifics. Says sometimes she feels she's in "corner" and can't get out. In my mind, she's in pretty damn good corner, with a good husband, kids, job, house, etc., and getting to see another guy 25-30 hours/week for what is essentially a date night everytime she's with him.

Counsellor asks me why I'm able to tolerate the kids while she can't. I tell her I think it's either a basic personality difference or some kind of brain chemisty issue (without specifically saying I think she needs to be under some kind of medication to handle her extreme moodiness, or bi-polar issue).

Tonight's our date night. So no kids, and hopefully she'll put some of her "guy" energy into me tonight. I'd like to start working on the intimacy. I think when we're back to where we should be, it'll help her, too, because I'll be more content and more likely to be understanding when she wants to do some of the things she wants to do. I'm still not entirely sure if her "guy" was out of the picture she'd want to put more energy into me or not.
 
Re:
"I'd like to start working on the intimacy. I think when we're back to where we should be, it'll help her, too, because I'll be more content and more likely to be understanding when she wants to do some of the things she wants to do."

Might be a good thing to say to her (sometime when she's in a receptive frame of mind).

Right now I think she's going through some kind of mid-life crisis; life didn't turn out the way she wanted it to, and/or the things she thought would make her happy did not make her happy. I think she is struggling within herself with respect to how much she wants to rebel.

Meds might be helpful to her, though for that you need a live pdoc who can write up scripts.

I am thinking she is dissatisfied with the compromise you are at, though as you said, that is the nature of compromise: All parties involved give up some of the stuff they want, so that all parties involved can get some of the stuff they want.

She may also be disappointed with her role of motherhood (which then probably stirs up guilt, and puts her on the defensive). It is sad if she can't love her own kids, like she probably wishes she could.

Eventually, she will probably arrive at some kind of acceptance about things. She needs to. This will be a slow process, and you will need the patience of Job. You can look at it and say, "Her anger makes no sense." But emotions don't always conform themselves to reason. Her anger comes from somewhere deep within, buried under its secrets and perhaps bolstered by chemical turmoil.

Life changes; people change. It may be slow change, but tremendous forces may be at work to make the change. Something will calve off that glacier eventually.
 
Well date night turned out nice. During dinner wife talked about our counselling session the previous night. She took to heart the suggestion to find things to do with the girls she enjoys, and she put a lot of thought into that. She also is seriously considering spending less time around her divorced friends who have a lot of free time, another idea from the counsellor.

Then after dinner we met up with some of our friends at a bar and enjoyed some tasty beverages. The girl that I currently have the hots for was there, and it was great getting to spend some quality time with her. I HAVE to muster the courage to actually ask her out sometime.
 
Reading your story I had a couple thoughts ....using nre as excuse for disrpectful behavior and hoping you'll have a marriage after it passes is delusional....relationships can be irreparably damaged. My second thought has anyone thought that the NRE is the drug she is using to treat herself?

This looks like many issues and problems layered one on top of the other....like peeling an onion. NRE is not the core.


Loving radiance wrote a very good thread on "NRE as an excuse" or not an excuse. Maybe have her read that.

A therapist once told me that sexual intimacy is often the glue that hold marriages together ....or put another way its often an indictor of a major disconnect. Is she motivated at all to fix that with you ?
 
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Oh believe me dinged, I know our issues are multi-dimensional. The anger and borderline emotional abuse started not long after our girls were born, and the bi-polar diagnosis and subsequent treatment seemed to help a good bit. The trust issues came about after she had her affair. Our MC at that time thought perhaps the manic phase of bi-polar was pushing her into hypersexuality. Very possible.

The anger returned pretty much after she stopped taking the meds. She hates taking the meds. She wants to be "herself" regardless of the collateral damage. She often thinks she will be OK by getting away from the girls, and me, and finding someone who will accept her the way she is. And maybe she's right. But that would devastate me and the girls, and that's why I'm fighting this fight. At some point I may reach the point where I don't want to fight this fight. I think about it constantly. Right now, I am, and I relish the small, good things that occur occasionally.

You're right about the NRE. It is the explanation for a lot of things, but can't be used as an excuse for a lot of the bad behavior.

As to the sexual intimacy issue, the last time I brought it up (last week) she simply said she's not ready. She didn't say no. But I just got her to read "Opening Up" by Tristam Taormino (and her guy is reading it, too). The sections on NRE and others may get her to re-examine her relationship with me. I just started reading "Intimacy and Desire" by David Schnarch. It is supposedly a fantastic book about resurrecting the desire in a marriage. After I'm done with it I'm going to urge her to read it. She knows that my position on this new polyamory relationship model for us is based on getting my needs met, and if we don't make reasonable progress towards that, I'll end the polyamory experiment, because I won't tolerate not having my needs met for very much longer.
 
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Yes, it seems to me that small steps of progress are good, as long as some progress is being made. I am watching this thread closely to see where she behaves well, and where she behaves poorly. The sucky thing about NRE is it can make her value her marriage less, and take riskier chances with it. So divorce is certainly a possibility here. My only hope is that some of this NRE will eventually generate some RRE -- Renewed Relationship Energy -- where her new relationship inspires her to renew her relationship with you. We can only hope.

Please keep us posted on how things are going.
 
Hi I'm In Knoxville. I like your post & it speaks volumes about someone trying to maneuver their way thru this out of the "norm" off the beaten path lifestyle. Are you 2 anywhere near Knoxville? Let's all be friends. :)
 
More pushing my boundaries. This weekend my wife and her guy went to a conference that he wanted to attend. Conference was to end Sunday at noon. I asked her to be home by 3:00pm (location is about 2.5 hours from home) so she could spend some quality time with me and the girls the remainder of Sunday. W asked if she could have lunch with guy, and come home a little later. I begrudgingly granted her this, thinking this might push back her time to 4 or 4:30. I promise the girls Mommy will be home after they get up from their nap and we'll all go have dinner.

I get a text from her around 3:00 saying her guy is having car problems (they drove separately, and may have to have his car towed). They haven't eaten yet, so they are going to eat after getting the car situation handled. She finally gets home at about 7:30. So apparently the car issue set them back 3 hours. Meanwhile, I've had the girls all day, including dealing with one who is sick and throwing up. So she gets about and hour with the girls until they have to go to sleep. I'm so mad I can't even talk to her. I'm starving, having held off eating until she got home. I just leave the house and go out and get something to eat by myself.
 
"W asked if she could have lunch with guy, and come home a little later. I begrudgingly granted her this, thinking this might push back her time to 4 or 4:30."

Not sure if it would have helped in this situation, but as a general rule get all the details out in the open so that you know you're on the same page. If she says "a little later," you say, "So, then I can expect you home at 4 or 4:30, is that right?" At least get a firm commitment from her.

When she called about the car problems, I would recommend asking her straight out: "When, then, can I expect you to be home?" It isn't fair for you to just have to sit waiting (babysitting the kids), not knowing when to expect her.

Now, as for what really happened, we can't say. Were there really car problems? Was it just an alibi? Could it have really taken 3 hours to fix? Well, the answer is, maybe, or maybe not.

At some point you could ask her why it took 3 hours. At that point, you'd have to decide whether to trust whatever answer she gave.

It's understandable that you were upset. Your day did not go well. It's also fair enough (IMO) that you went out to eat alone. Doing so may have staved off a loud argument.

Eventually, you may want to talk to her, about how the day went from your point of view. You kept on having to make bigger and bigger concessions. Now, maybe her day went badly too, but she'll have to speak for herself about that.

This will probably continue for some time, this series of jagged ups and downs. There will be some days when she treats you right. Other days, she will neglect you. She is still letting the NRE cloud her judgment, and I suspect she is (perhaps subconsciously) rebelling against an array of regrets. You are getting caught in the whirlwind of her rebellion. It will take a lot of patience to get through this.

Make sure you explain to your counsellor that you are very frustrated with the situation right now. Make new decisions about your boundaries if you need to.
 
I'd say it might go beyond pushing. Did the weekend include Friday night?

So she has a meltdown for having to spend 2.5 hrs with her kids and has no problem dragging "her weekend fun time" out to the last possible second. How many hrs was she gone total ?


Show of hands on anyone believing the car trouble story...
Wow if thats true the universe isnt trying to help her out on being poly...or her handling being poly.


They didnt look at a clock until it was an oh fuck moment....crap I'm suppose to be home right now....

Jagged ups and downs ???? where are the ups ??? I see no ups. She wants to have the new guy as a primary ( meaning replacement ) she has buyer remorse on the kids ...doesnt want to spend anytime with them .... (meaning return or disposal...time burden) ...stopped having sex with TN, etc ,etc ....Wheres the UP's


Id seriously and quietly start thinking about saving yourself and the kids. Start drawing up survival plans. If she comes around great if not you wont get caught flat footed.
 
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Just curious, was your expectation that she would be home at 3pm based on your own calculations or did she say, "I will be home around 3"?

Based on MY experience:
An event that's scheduled to end at noon, could get out as early as 11am or it might be 1:30pm before you ever get to your car. Add in an hour for lunch and a 2.5 hour car ride (without traffic issues), 3pm seems optimistic at best.

Car trouble: 30-45 minutes just waiting for a tow truck, add in another 30minutes - 2 hours to fix the problem. Flat tire or out of gas would probably only be an hour delay any thing else would likely be longer.

More clarity on time expectations would be a definite MUST. You should not be left to assume or calculate her ETA. You don't really give a shit when the event ends, you want to know when she will be home. So ask what time she expects to be home. If things go wrong, she needs to keep you updated more often and with more specific time expectations. No more "we are going to be home a little later", that is definitely too vague.
 
W originally asked me when I expected her home. Since I knew the conference ended at noon, and the drive is about 2.5 hours, I told her by three. That's when she brought up the fact that she wanted to have lunch with her guy. I SHOULD have said, "So I can expect you home around 4 or 4:30, then?", but I didn't, just assuming that would be a reasonable expectation.

The fact that she didn't text me until 3:00 about the car problems is a big red flag. She's lied so many times in the past that she does it easily and without much effort. The location they were at was about 1.5 hours away from where they left, so they should have been there by 1:30-2:00. They were apparently planning on having lunch in this town where they started having the troubles.

There's so much unaccounted time that in my mind it's all just so much BS. I don't even think I have the energy tonight to talk to her about it. This is not the first time she's stretched out her time with her guy. If I do I might frame it in the guise of "I need more ME time this week because of you going over your guy allottment." She's already given me a hard time about counting hours, but seriously that is what it takes to make sure she's giving time to me and the girls. If we were in a different place, and she was meeting my emotional and physical needs, then things might be a lot different. Right now I'm the one doing the sacrificing, and if I need to keep track of how much I'm sacrificing down to the hour, then so be it.

If there's any consolation to me, it's that she got someone to work for her today so she could stay home with our girls, who are sick. It's RARE that she would do this, usually expecting me to stay home if the girls are ill and can't go to preschool. Maybe this is her conscience talking to her about yesterday.

Dinged, I know it looks pretty bad from where you stand. It looks pretty bad from where I stand, too. If there are any UP's, it's that we're still married, our finances and assets are all still intact, I've won some concessions on things like keeping him away from the kids and keeping our relationship under wraps, and we're still doing weekly therapy. I've said before and I'll say it again - I have a breaking point, and I haven't reached that yet.
 
The fact that she didn't text me until 3:00 about the car problems is a big red flag.

My husband goes into clueless mode when it comes to time and expectations, which is why I had to learn to ask him when he expects to be home and then comment on why this was a problem. I also after many, many years (absolutely nothing to do with poly), have gotten him in the habit of texting me when he is finally on the road (and back in cell phone range) with an estimated eta of being home. After all things always change the day of travel :rolleyes:.

She's lied so many times in the past that she does it easily and without much effort.

Completely sympathize here. Any deviation of plans sets off red flags due to past issues. Completely understandable and she should be made aware that since she waited until 3pm to initially make contact and she wasn't more forthcoming about when she was going to be home, it looks like she had something to hide. Because she has lied in the past, she has to make the extra effort to prove she is not lying anymore, like doing everything in her power to be home on time and more communication if something changes.

Let's face it, he is a big boy, she really didn't HAVE to wait while he got his car fixed (if that is indeed what happened) and lunch could have been fast food drive through ... Something to bring up in counceling.
 
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