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  #51  
Old 03-26-2018, 04:21 AM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Originally Posted by starlight1 View Post
I hope your boarishness isn't to the detriment of those trying to understand you. I hope I said that...sweetly enough for your tastes.
Q'uest que c'est "Weh!! Weh!!"



Which is to encapsulate the thought that YOUR whining doen not somehow eclipse MY whining.

Sure, tons of groovy that YOU have plenty of black poly friends. But (IMNSHO) only an abject fool would claim their local situation is somehow generalizabile.
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  #52  
Old 03-26-2018, 03:00 PM
Tinwen Tinwen is offline
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Love your post on healthcare, Opalescent.

I just want to point out that maybe you and FallenAngelina are not in disagreement:
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Originally Posted by FallenAngelina View Post
It never works to compare the USA to any other "rich" country because of our sheer enormity and diversity - not just race, but religious, class, cultural, financial, regional diversity. We might be able to manage health care from a state level (we have 50 of them) but I don't see all-encompassing national healthcare ever working here.
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
It's a difference in values, not scale that is the problem. The culture of the United States values individuals over any community. The countries who have universal healthcare have decided that health care is a fundamental human right. People should not die or suffer or go bankrupt because health care is too expensive or unavailable for other reasons (no doctors in a given area, no supplies, etc.). People in the United States have collectively decided that it is ok if people die from lack of health care.
I can imagine how a "universal" health care in the US requires a change in values, and I can imagine how it would have to be organized very autonomously on the state level and not on the biggest possible federal level. Scaling problems are real. As distance increases people get less willing to contribute to each other, less likely to agree on one solution and more likely to waste contributed money - we see it in the European Union. That doesn't mean that an available health-care program is untenable.
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Last edited by Tinwen; 03-26-2018 at 03:04 PM.
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  #53  
Old 03-26-2018, 08:13 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Originally Posted by ref2018 View Post
Sure you can ask, but they really like their hockey. You would need to start a professional hockey team in Arizona, then maybe you could convince both of the black poly canadians to move down there because diversity.
Arizona Coyotes are the former Winnepeg Jets.

Source: Am from NH. Like hockey. Very little diversity here as a whole outside of the more urban areas, of which there are few.

And no, I can't speak to Poly diversity, since I don't really involve myself in any poly communities other than this one (and I would use the term "involve myself" very loosely at this point).
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  #54  
Old 03-26-2018, 11:57 PM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Well imagine that! Does AZ have a bobsled team too? And a curling team? In the name of variety.
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  #55  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:00 AM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
Which is to encapsulate the thought that YOUR whining doen not somehow eclipse MY whining.

.

You definitely have us all beat there.
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  #56  
Old 03-27-2018, 05:20 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
Great Danes and toy poodles are both dogs. Same category.
Bad example that almost disproves your point. There are important differences any owner of a large breed better be aware of. Sorry, but no, owning a Great Dane and owning a toy poodle are not the same world. Barely the same planet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ref2018 View Post
He lives in Minnesota, so he knows all 4 black poly people up there. I didn't know Minnesota even had that many black people in the entire state, let alone black poly people. We need to find more black poly people and ship them up north so it's more diverse in the community.
I'm in agreement on much of what you say--including what do we care what color someone is and why do we need to make a point of making sure black people (or whatever race) are part of poly? I assume if they want to be, they will be.

But having relatives in Minnesota, there are plenty of people there of every race.

I'm with the gist of what you say, however. I assume if people want to be part of poly, they'll be part of poly. Do a bunch of white do-gooders really need to convince people of other races to become poly so said white do-gooders can now feel good about 'diversity?'

Honestly, I'm missing what the OP WANTS. To have more black poly people? Why does OP think there aren't more? Because white people somehow prevented them? I doubt that's true. What does OP want to do about the perceived low level of 'diverse' poly people?

I give people credit and assume they'll take part in poly (or sports or knitting or Star Trek or geocaching or whatever) if they want to. And if they don't, they won't. I would find it kind of creepy if some guy approached me trying to convince me to be part of...whatever...because I' female and he wants to feel like he's supporting women by encouraging 'women in *whatever*' by pushing me personally to take part in it. I'd be insulted...like, "DUDE, if I wanted to be part of that, I'd be part of it! Do you see the problem in trying to make yourself feel good by trying to force me to take part in something I clearly have no interest in by virtue of the obvious fact that I am not already part of it!????"

What if OP takes a poll and finds that 95% of 'diverse' people want nothing to do with poly? What then? Is he going to force some of them to be poly so he can feel good that he's supporting 'diversity?' Try to convince them their reasons for being uninterested aren't valid? Try to sway them to try it anyway?

How about we take people for who they are and let them choose the lifestyles they themselves want to live?
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  #57  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:03 AM
ref2018 ref2018 is offline
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Whathappened,

Maybe he thinks there is a secret black poly club and they won't tell him where the meeting is because he's not one of them. Maybe, there *is* a secret black poly club and they won't let him join because he's white. Perhaps it's the blacks who need more diversity. I'll sleep on it, and i will try to come up with some ideas on how to create a task force to go out and investigate this. Tomorrow. Well, technically it's tomorrow already, but you know, time zones and all that.

Last edited by ref2018; 03-27-2018 at 08:07 AM.
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  #58  
Old 03-27-2018, 06:52 PM
starlight1 starlight1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I'm in agreement on much of what you say--including what do we care what color someone is and why do we need to make a point of making sure black people (or whatever race) are part of poly? I assume if they want to be, they will be.

But having relatives in Minnesota, there are plenty of people there of every race.

I'm with the gist of what you say, however. I assume if people want to be part of poly, they'll be part of poly. Do a bunch of white do-gooders really need to convince people of other races to become poly so said white do-gooders can now feel good about 'diversity?'

Honestly, I'm missing what the OP WANTS. To have more black poly people? Why does OP think there aren't more? Because white people somehow prevented them? I doubt that's true. What does OP want to do about the perceived low level of 'diverse' poly people?

I give people credit and assume they'll take part in poly (or sports or knitting or Star Trek or geocaching or whatever) if they want to. And if they don't, they won't. I would find it kind of creepy if some guy approached me trying to convince me to be part of...whatever...because I' female and he wants to feel like he's supporting women by encouraging 'women in *whatever*' by pushing me personally to take part in it. I'd be insulted...like, "DUDE, if I wanted to be part of that, I'd be part of it! Do you see the problem in trying to make yourself feel good by trying to force me to take part in something I clearly have no interest in by virtue of the obvious fact that I am not already part of it!????"

What if OP takes a poll and finds that 95% of 'diverse' people want nothing to do with poly? What then? Is he going to force some of them to be poly so he can feel good that he's supporting 'diversity?' Try to convince them their reasons for being uninterested aren't valid? Try to sway them to try it anyway?

How about we take people for who they are and let them choose the lifestyles they themselves want to live?

@ What Happened: This was said so much more eloquently than I said. Honestly, half the reason I don't post often is because, you all come up with ideas so much more quickly than I do. Often I reach similar conclusions but at a much slower pace, but this is almost word for word what I was thinking, in terms of why does it matter to OP?

@Rest and Ravenscroft : What is to be gained by polling the populace? Are we to assume you think we're all non-inclusive simply by the fact the people don't answer, lurk, aren't on forum or not part of the group at large?

Also, When I do my put two cents in, it is shot down with patronising terms, such as "... sweet". Which I defended myself for and it was further escalated. So my understanding of relating to yoursef, Ravenscroft, in particular on the forum is to assume that I must have no opinion that isn't your opinion?

Which is exactly the opposite of the whole purpose of said beginning post(except on different subject matter)?

For what it's worth, I'm part black on my dad's sie, and part native american on my mums. And a whole hell of a lot French an English native. So I don't look native american or black. But my granddad could pass as black, and my mum definitely has the colouring and hair of native american. So, does this small amount include me in the conversation?

Well technically, legally yes, I could apply for those demographics, especially the native american one in the USA it would be harder with the dad because he's canadian and I don't have the same paperwork.

Do I feel like those parties need a white poly cheerleading squad? Have I told my poly-multicultural- friends who are struggling with poly- racial issues of my small claim to their world?

No.

Because frankly it's none of my damn business if they are involved or not in Polyamory (Unless we're dating or friends, and even then, because I pass as "white" why would I stand up and shout for an oppression/representation that would seem mocking to them? Or..racist in and of its-self? Especially if THEY don't feel there is any issues about it???) Most of my friends in the poly community, who are of different races don't feel this is an issue, and those who have, we *have* had in person exclusitivty conversations.

As far as I'm aware at least i'm not patronising them, (Many of the friends have been friends for years and years) or shooting them down the minute they open their mouth, even if I disagree. I'm certainly not asking them "Where are you from...no I mean, where is your racial heritage from? Accent from? Family from?" Got enough of that bullshit myself when I dyed my hair black. I look very..moroccan? I guess. Or south african, or whatever it was people wanted to guess I was from- which was incorrect.

Besides by the time you find your answer to this racial injustice for a race that isn't even your own, Ravenscroft, it'll be 2050 and "white" as we understand it will be so different as to be a moot point. And if we're lucky, poly and other types of love, will be as mainstream as monogamy.
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Last edited by starlight1; 03-27-2018 at 11:46 PM.
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