Redpepper's journey

I'm a little confused by this. I never pushed to begin with. We had boundaries. They were pushed. We adapted. There was change, but it didn't come from me.

I didn't say you were pushing her. I was just using RP's language. I said "pushback" because RP wrote something that really stood out to me:
Leo is not worth pushing the issue on. We will be just fine being friends, if it is to be that way.

So, I was just wondering what would have made the issue worth pushing, since Leo apparently isn't worth it. It seems relatively easy, to me, to give up something/someone less important, but I guess each case would be decided individually. If it were someone else whom she felt was "worth" pushing the issue, I guess different compromises would have been made on both sides.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. That's why I said:
Since Leo isn't "worth" fighting for, does that make it easier to acquiesce?

I am just trying to understand how to practically manage many love relationships. It's very enlightening, since I'm not at that stage yet. I am glad you are both happy with where you've arrived now.
 
Last edited:
I'm a little confused by this. I never pushed to begin with. We had boundaries. They were pushed. We adapted. There was change but it didn't come from me.

I think she means in regards to Leo.

What would happen if someone came along who held more value than Leo, whom she couldn't just walk away from? Someone RP would feel more need to push on behalf of? :)

At least that was my take. :)
 
Oh, I didn't say you were pushing her. I was just using RP's language. I said "pushback" because RP wrote something that really stood out to me:

So, I was just wondering what would have made the issue worth pushing, since Leo apparently isn't worth it. It seems relatively easy, to me, to give up something/someone less important, but I guess each case would be decided individually. If it were someone else whom she felt was "worth" pushing the issue, I guess different compromises would have been made on both sides.
Leo is worth it. He is an incredible person and has shown me that he is well worth my giving myself to, in a way that involves being naked. ;) His worth is not the question. I'm sorry if I made it seem that way.

What is not worth it is changing the entire dynamic of my relationships and life. I am not willing to do that for him or anyone right now, if ever.

This whole process might come in handy one day if someone comes along, even Leo, at a later time. If things change in my life that make me think that exploring what would happen if "pushing the issue" is necessary, this work has been helpful. I know a bit more about myself and Mono. It isn't entirely clear, but useful.

Thanks for asking, NYCindie. I don't know where it's all going. I might just be delusional at this point. I know full well that people reading this will just shake their heads, as I am still giving up my true nature, really. But what else can I do? Give up everything for a man I will never have much time with, don't even know if I would ever want to have sex with anyway, has a jealous wife, and numerous problems and issues that I don't have to be a part of at the moment, with the status I have in his life, or Mono? Hmm... The choice is clear, at the moment.

If I ever want to have more with Leo, then I will have to wait until Mono decides that he sees him as he does Derby and PN. HA! It seems ludicrous to think that might ever happen. But whatever. I don't want this bubble to burst. Mono doesn't want to be around him camping, or in any other way, at the moment. I think getting back to that is just about all I can ask for at this point.
 
I'm a little confused by this...I never pushed to begin with. We had boundaries. They were pushed. We adapted. There was change but it didn't come from me.
I fucked up. Really badly, in fact. Not horrifically, but badly enough. I honestly didn't think and didn't consider results. It could've been a lot worse, but it was bad enough to realize what I could lose if I don't get my act together. Of course. some could see it as realizing what I could gain, depending on how you look at it. I chose to see the latter, at this point.

Sorry, baby. :( I hurt you and you still feel it. Trust broken is almost impossible to get over, especially for the one who breaks it. I hope that we can build again with time. In your eyes, I cheated, and that has hit me hard. I can see how that would make sense to you, and it has become my sense also now.

After all my going on and on about foundations... blah blah blah... I didn't think of those at the time. I believe in the foundation we have. I have not acted with integrity. I intend to get back on track with everything I can muster.
 
It's my turn to tell you not to dwell on the things we have done in the past, which is ironic, really, considering my affinity for guilt. There is still no one I trust more, no heart that has ever been closer to mine. Yes, there are feelings of hurt and of being deceived and even played a fool, to some degree, but these are illogical in the sense that they imply malicious intent. I know you love me and would never want to hurt me. Our natures collided. Our views of physical things were not the same. We will be fine.

I still like and care about Leo. He is a friend and a person I have concern about. I worry about his emotions in this, as well. Yes, I have a desire to create distance between us and pull back from our family activities, where he is concerned. Part of that is what happens to my energy when things of this nature become pictures in my mind. But the other part of wanting to pull back is to give you guys more space in what you have. This was part of my offered compromise so you could continue with your level of intimacy. That offer will stand as time rolls on.

You still have your integrity. You answered my questions without hesitation. You could have lied to me and I would have never known. But you didn't. That's integrity, strength, bravery, commitment and true love. :)
 
Women's group today, I have a lot to talk about. I don't feel confident to talk about anything, though. Vulnerable, ashamed...

Sigh... I will see how it goes.
 
Women's group today, I have a lot to talk about... I don't feel confident to talk about anything though... vulnerable, ashamed... sigh, I will see how it goes.

You don't have to talk about anything that you're not ready to. There's always next month, once everything has settled in you.
 
It is nice to have someone to talk to, but it's equally important to feel comfortable doing so.
 
Some stuff to note from my group yesterday:

Should I tell Leo what is going on? Is Mono perhaps merely jealous of my relationship with Leo, and concerned as a result?

Well, I've told Leo now, so the first question is moot. I told him that we are back to where we were and apologized that it had to be that way. I said it wasn't okay that we continue as we were, and that scaling back is what I intend to do. I await a response. I thought that was enough for a first talk about it. I did mention that its all okay on this end, that we are all doing fine and he is not to worry.

As to the other note, I put it to Mono. He thought it was not a case of jealousy and was not too keen to think of it this way. I thought it was a fascinating way of looking at it, because some people get jealous when their partner starts a new relationship, in terms of intimacy. Perhaps it isn't about poly and mono natures, after all. He wasn't keen on hearing any of this theory.

It's still interesting to me, but something to discuss with others, at this point.

So, there ya go.

*sigh*

Life moves on.
 
As to the other note, I put it to Mono. He thought it was not a case of jealousy and was not too keen to think of it this way. I thought it was a fascinating way of looking at it, because some people get jealous when their partner starts a new relationship, in terms of intimacy.

Maybe we need to define jealousy?
 
What are the aspects of jealousy?

Time - I get more than my share and feel like the time Redpepper spends with other people takes nothing away from me. I love my alone time almost as much as I love my time with her.

Sex- I am seriously having more sex than ever before in my life. I almost worry we take it for granted because it is almost always available. I am not missing out on sex when she is with PN, Derby, Leo or anyone else. I'm more than satisfied.

Insecurity - I'm fully confident in my ability to have sex LOL!

Loss of love - Not an issue with Redpepper. I know her love is constant and unwavering. I even believe it would increase for me if she were able to be more free with other male relationships, like she is with women.

Frankly, all of the above don't even register. Unless someone can come up with an aspect of jealousy that applies to me, I don't see it applying.

One of the things that does register is the mental imagery. The image of her kissing another guy besides PN shuts down my intimate connection and sex drive. I still love her presence and cuddles, but feel asexual, and my body follows suit. And that is just kissing. :eek:

Leo is a great-looking guy, so it has nothing to do with that. LOL That is why distance from him and them together, even in our regular social gatherings, might help to enable them to share in this way. Would that lead to more and more distance? Who knows? But at least it's trying to give her some more freedom.

Maybe if I got hypnotized to block the sudden onset of images, I would be better. :rolleyes: But that is tantamount to medication, and I will never medicate to be in a relationship.

But again, this is just one aspect of things that register.
 
In poly, we spend a crap load of time looking for the root cause of jealousy, like you just did. Maybe it is just that, jealousy. Something to be accepted. Period.
 
It doesn't sound like jealousy. But it is interesting. I used to feel sad when I thought of Z with J. So I stopped thinking about it as much as I could. It was more the fact that he was away for days at a time, I think. She has come to us lately and now, knowing they're upstairs together isn't a problem for me, at all. I even wrote a real-time post right in the middle of it. I actually feel really happy for them.

The closest thing I've heard of to what Mono says he feels is the "ew" feeling. This has been discussed a lot on the polymono board at yahoo.
Lots of the women have to go through quite interesting rituals to kind of cleanse (not literally) their men, before they can feel sexual towards them again. It usually happens to live-in loves, where men go off to be with another love, and then come back.

They want to re-connect with their partner, but they can't be sexual. I'll have to check out the thread (which I didn't really read because it isn't an issue for me). Off the top of my head, there's spooning with pajamas on. (The mono gets to wear the pjs.)

I don't remember a situation where it isn't temporary, though.
 
M has the "ew" feeling.
We have an agreement that I won't come back to him after having been sexually involved with GG before taking a FULL shower.
 
from Mono's thread.

This is from a thread that Mono started... http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6504
Mono, the confusing part to me is that I understood RP has not had sex with Leo, thus respected your boundaries. But the night he came over and stayed in her bedroom started off a whole slew of discomfort for you, Mono. You say you're not jealous. Yet, RP apologized in other thread for breaking your trust. What did she do? That is still not clear. What does she want to do? She has said she will not move forward with Leo and still there is a shit storm to deal with. What does stepping back mean for you, exactly? You sometimes wax poetic and are somewhat vague in describing certain aspects of your situation. We're all just trying to understand what the hell you're talking about. No one is picking on you or posing questions as a way to bitch at you or poke fun.

It does look as if, from the outside, that your boundaries (which really come across as rules to me) have essentially placed RP in a mono relationship with you. You have managed to exert some powerful control over her. I know she has said that the sex with you is more satisfying than it is with others, or at least, being with you involves lots of sex. She's not sexual very often with her husband or other partners who were (I believe) in her life before you came on the scene, so it's like she's living a pretty much mono lifestyle in deference to you, despite the fact that a poly tribe is something she has said she strives for.

I don't think your stepping back is an unreasonable shift to make in order for you to handle the addition of another partner in her life (as long as you won't be pouting about it). And while it's ridiculous to think that adding someone new to the mix wouldn't demand changes all around the tribe, you seem unwilling to look further into why it would bother you so much. It's like you've dug your heels in and said, "This is just the way I am," without wanting any suggestions that there could be jealousy or other issues at play here. But, okay, let's say it is just the way you are. and you do step back, and RP takes on Leo as a full-on sexual partner and lover, and maybe other people, too, for that matter. How will you handle what may happen if lovemaking with Leo or another eclipses lovemaking with you, just as lovemaking with you eclipsed lovemaking with PN? Are you prepared for that? Maybe you can handle her relationships with PN and Derby because, on some level, you feel you've got the upper hand and are superior, or preferred, in your lovemaking. But Leo is an unknown. He throws doubt into the mix. She could wind up preferring his lovemaking over everyone else's. Hmm.

Even though you are mono and feel the need for connection to be sexual with her, I fail to understand how other, additional relationships RP has would be more of a threat to your connection than the ones she currently has besides you. It just does not make sense. If you allow some and not others, it's not quite poly, not quite mono, but you remain in control.

Perhaps this whole issue is rooted in your need for some sense of control in the situation. I'm not using the word "control" negatively. Human beings do often find comfort in some sense of order in life, and feeling like we have a handle on things. Perhaps, however, your need to be okay with the relationships RP has could be better handled by your own personal work on yourself, rather than imposing limitations on whom and how RP loves and makes love to. She is poly, after all.

This was my reply:
Thank you for this post, NYCindie. No doubt it was a hard one for Mono to hear. Your thoughts are valid and are useful. They have all gone through my head, also. The thing is, I chose at this point to back away from anything with Leo because I believe it is worth trying first. This isn't giving Mono control, so much as doing what I need to do for me.

Indeed, it is possible that he needs to feel some control over the situation, in a way that is not negative but more comfortable. I have given him that comfort by making the decision I have. I didn't make the decision to make him feel comfortable. It was an added bonus. One day I might ask him to be uncomfortable because I need to decide that I cannot live with the compromise of not being able to express myself in a healthy way. I don't know. I might be just fine in what I have already. All will be revealed in time, when I have done my own work around some stuff.

It isn't so much what I did that is the issue here. It is that I did not act in a way that was in keeping with the boundaries we had set up from the beginning. I should've asked him to tell me again what he is okay with in terms of "non-sexual." I have asked him to write it down now as a document for me to read and remember that way. It is more to do with my nature/way of being, my own issues that get me into a position where sex comes up, where friendship would've been just fine. I have a need to see if there is something more deep-rooted behind that.

Mono has said that if I find I cannot step away from something developing with Leo, that he will see how he feels and will step back from socializing with them (Leo and his wife). He will work on being close to me in other ways and see if anything changes. He is willing, it seems, to see if it is a temporary feeling to be disconnected. He is willing to take that chance that it might be. I am not.

I do not want a full-on sexual, everyday, other partner relationship with Leo, in the way that is thought. I want to see him once a month, be able to be close to him and not feel as if I am overstepping the boundaries I have with the others in my life. If that should turn sexual one day, then I guess that would be a bridge that is crossed when we come to it.

I don't think it would be helpful in my life to take on another lover at this point. I have some deep-rooted issues to work on around my own self love first. This is what I intend to work on, and leave the Leo thing alone. At least until I have a better grasp on what is going on for me that I seem to need to have more people to be close to.

I am not satisfied somehow, and it has something to do with myself. It's not lack of love, sex, closeness or people to be so with. Does that make sense? It doesn't entirely, to me. It is a work in progress.

I might be full of shit. I just don't know yet. More exploring needs to be done. I am on it. It takes time and I intend to take time. All I can say is that there is something going on for me and I don't know what it is. It has nothing to do with Mono. He just brought it out of me by the situation we are in.

Then this too:
Hi, RP. I was looking forward to you showing up because I didn't like to be talking behind your back, so to speak.

However, your blog is support only, and you'll only get rainbows and group hugs over there. I asked you to start a thread where honest, perhaps tough, comments could be made, and at that time you refused. I wish you'd seek more engagement, because I do identify with you, to a large degree, and am bothered by your decision to be poly-fi, if it's not in your true nature. That's almost the same as a poly person trying to be mono for their mono partner. IMO, of course.

And my reply:
I refused because I was afraid, hurt, in pain and not ready. I am ready now to hear what others say. Please feel free to say what you feel is best for me on my blog. This is Mono's thread. I would prefer to take thoughts about what I do elsewhere.

Please understand by my previous post that I am looking at all other options as to what is going on for me in my life first. I am looking at "why" I feel I would like to have more with Leo, rather than just pushing the issue. I feel disgust with myself that is deep-rooted in something to do with my self worth. It has nothing to do with Mono. I have spent much time separating the two, Mono and me, and have decided that there are things for me to look at before taking Mono's compromise, and seeing if it will work for me. His talk of his compromise is his own. It's nothing to do with me.

Staying on the original topic would be great. Everything else can be directed to my blog.
 
Last edited:
I keep having to pinch myself to make sure what I am reading is real. I don't mean that in a facetious way, RP. I think you and Mono are great people. It is your level of honesty about the nuts and bolts that I am finding amazing.

I am sure you are helping a lot of people. NYCindie and Magdlyn (sorry if I misspelt anything, girls) are indeed hitting you with words of steel there, many good hard questions. I struggle to understand your internal conflict, RP, although your words and processing steps make a lot of sense to me. While I can totally understand Mono's reaction to withdraw, I do believe it is not jealousy. There may be something in the control question, though.

Anyway, I want to thank you both for being so honest and open. Respect.
 
"Poly is more about openness and honest communication, with full knowledge and consent of all parties involved." How often have I heard this? And yet it sits differently with me tonight. "Consent." What if there is no consensus on consent? We can't seem to come up with what is consensual. I feel as if I have lost my poly and am swimming in a sea of I don't know what.

"If poly is something you need in your life, more than you need that person, then you and that person are not compatible to be in a relationship." I saw this on a thread tonight and had to ask myself: do I need poly in my life more than I need Mono right now? Are we not compatible, then? I realized that I am still in poly, regardless of the fact that I am poly-fi, and don't want to be. I am compatible with him in so many ways, just not with how we feel most comfortable doing relationships.
 
I keep having to pinch myself to make sure what I am reading is real. Not meaning that in a facetious way RP; I think you and Mono are great people , it is your level of honesty about the nuts and bolts that I am finding amazing.
I am sure you are helping a lot of people. Nycindie and magdelyn (sorry if I misspelt anything girls) are indeed hitting you with words of steel there, many good hard questions. I struggle to understand your internal conflict RP, although your words and processing steps make a lot of sense to me ,while I can totally understand Mono's reaction to withdraw; I do believe it is not jealousy; there may be something in the control question though.
Any way I want to thank you both for being so honest and open.
Respect.
Thanks, Vodkafan. I can just imagine Mags and NYCindie rolling their eyes at being called girls. :D:p HA!

Seriously, thanks for saying what you do. I am finding that this is all way past my vulnerable safe spot lately. I am totally throwing caution to the wind, as I really need help. I appreciate that I am being challenged and given to in such a huge way. No one knows but me how meaningful that is to me.

I had my astrological chart done again the other day, by a friend who told me that I really need to look at a few things. The biggest thing that stood out was that I don't spend enough time loving and getting to know myself.

I am good at lots of things and have the ability to help many. But if I don't work on the relationship I have with myself, I will always be stumped. I decided that was a noble path to investigate further and have decided that when I get pangs of "needing" others to fulfill me, that I am going to consciously look inward and try and find it within. Not an easy task for someone who is surrounded by people easily and readily. I have no trouble finding friends and loves. I have a hard time finding the friend and love in me. I end up sabotaging good friendships and love relationships because I don't look inward, and instead, put stuff on others.

Working on it :eek:
 
Back
Top