Wide Awake

Physician, heal thyself.

aka

Darlin,' put on your big girl panties and deal. You've got a marriage on the line and 2 babies to think of. You're "not into" getting help and learning how to act like grownups? Some fairy godmother going to fly through the window of your posh London house and make it all better?

Probably not.
 
When my marriage needed working on and I went to counseling, my then-husband refused to go with me. One of the things he said was, "We can do this ourselves."

No. We couldn't. Doing it ourselves is what got us to that point, and it wasn't going to get us out.

It may suck. Your heart may not be in it, but I take my ex's refusal to go to counseling as rejection of our marriage - that it wasn't worth it to him. He gave up and put his head in the sand, wishing things would be quiet and not putting the effort in to fix it.

Of course, I'm biased (naturally, I was 100% in the right and held none of the blame myself :rolleyes:), but I'd hate to see this happen with the two of you.
 
Nightly Check-in

Yesterday was better. Work was busy, but it was nothing I could not handle.

I am not into counselling right now. I am just like, "Gosh, this is hopeless and pointless." All it is doing is making me feel sadness and like a failure. Sad that I cannot handle my own marriage and that all efforts are failing miserably. Sad that I have to depend on a third party to facilitate in helping to fix the mess I helped to make. Just sad all around. I seriously want to quit. It is no reflection on our therapist. She is great as she is, and I see the [positive] changes that have happened. My heart is not into it right now. It just makes me wonder, "What else am I going to screw up and fail at?" I am tired of going to these stupid sessions week after week. It has only been nine weeks, and I am already sick of it. I guess this is normal and to be expected. I need to give it some more time because change takes time, right?

I realise no marriage is perfect, but this counselling thing is just not working for me right now. More and more, I hate the person I was. Why in the hell did Matt stay, and more importantly, why is he still here now, and why does he still love me? Those are things I really want to know. I would call him and ask, but I am pretty sure he is sleeping right now. I will ask him today when I see him. I was awful and a real bitch. No one else can call me that, but face it. That is what I was. I would love to run from this, but I would be running from facing the person I was. It feels like being in a room surrounded my mirrors and having to face all too valid reflections of myself: past and present.

It does not help that my own parents have been married five days shy of 38 years. We just hit the 11 year mark, and I swear that we have been doing it wrong the whole time. I am envious of what they have. I know it is not fair to compare my marriage to theirs, but that is something to aspire to have. I see the way they look at each other, and the way my daddy talks about mum is indescribable. After being together all these years, he still makes her blush. When I was growing up, I remember thinking, "I want that one day." My parents have always been honest and said that it was not always easy, but the bad times were worth it.

Enough of that. I hate almost feeling sorry for myself. That is pathetic and unacceptable. Change of subject.

My mum urged me to take some time off and spend a week alone with my husband. Her exact words were, "Leave those grands with us, get out of London, and take that husband of yours with you. Talk, reconnect, and for God's sake, act like you care about your marriage. Stop treating it like a business arrangement devoid of any emotion and full of board room style arguments. Your marriage needs your undivided attention. Not a two minute chat while you are brushing your teeth and mumbling some incoherent words due to sleepiness." She went on to remind that she has raised five children, and if that I had doubts about her abilities in handling my two children for 5-7 days, I needed to, "Check her credentials." My mother always could humble the hell out of me and bring me back down to reality.

We have talked about it and agreed to set aside a week. We have two possible weeks in mind, and we will work our schedules around it. If everything cannot function without us for five days, there is a problem anyway. We have not agreed on a place, yet. We are both coming up with lists, and we will mutually decide. Right now, the top contender is Paris. With EasyJet, the flights are about £73/per person RT. The flight is about an hour, so it fits our distance criteria. (We do not want to be too far in case there is an emergency.) And we are using Priceline's Name Your Price option for the hotel. We swear by BetterBidding, as they have the most helpful tips. Who does not like saving? I think uninterrupted time away will do us some good.

I am spending another night away from home. I am not alone, though. My children and I are at my parents' home. We drove down yesterday after I got off. (Our counsellor is not far from here.) Matt is at home by himself. He is driving down at some point this morning. We are both off today just like every Thursday. I am working over the weekend to make up for skipping out on Tuesday.

The good news is counselling day and date nights coincide. I made the plans for this week. After a tumultuous week, we need to reconnect.

I am feeling okay aside from the counselling issue. I am off to read some more of this book I just started before I attempt to get some sleep again. Sleep is just not coming easily tonight. Restless thoughts and insomnia? Eek.

Good-night.

Ry
 
When my marriage needed working on and I went to counseling, my then-husband refused to go with me. One of the things he said was, "We can do this ourselves."

No. We couldn't. Doing it ourselves is what got us to that point, and it wasn't going to get us out.

It may suck. Your heart may not be in it, but I take my ex's refusal to go to counseling as rejection of our marriage - that it wasn't worth it to him. He gave up and put his head in the sand, wishing things would be quiet and not putting the effort in to fix it.

Of course, I'm biased (naturally, I was 100% in the right and held none of the blame myself :rolleyes:), but I'd hate to see this happen with the two of you.

I know we cannot do it ourselves. I am not even willing to let myself fall into that trap of believing that.

It sucks bonobo balls. I guess it will be worth it at some point. :)
 
Physician, heal thyself.

aka

Darlin,' put on your big girl panties and deal. You've got a marriage on the line and 2 babies to think of. You're "not into" getting help and learning how to act like grownups? Some fairy godmother going to fly through the window of your posh London house and make it all better?

Probably not.

Wishful thinking.

We have to fix this. Discouraging, but it must be done.
 
I have enjoyed being around my parents. The things they argue over seem so trivial. Daddy answered the phone, and instead of handling whatever it was, he passed her the phone. He knows she like hates that. I just watched them go back and forth. If they liked it, I loved it.

I hate when people tell me what I am not doing. That is a pet peeve. Just because I am not screaming from the top of a mountain about how badly I messed up does not mean I am not owning up. I owe no explanations to anyone but my spouse and the counsellor by proxy. Facing the music is the new story of my life. Do not tell me that I do not understand the complexities of this situation and the depth of my mistakes. I know this situation in and out. Everyone has an opinion about everything. I should be doing this. I should be doing that. I would not do this if I were you. Why is perfection expected right now? It has been nine weeks to the day that everything came crashing down. In stages, we are still in the infancy of recovery and honest discovery. No, I am not going to do everything right. No, I am not going to be perfect at repairing anything. No, I do not know it all. Yes, I am sick of counselling. Yes, I am irritable. Yes, I want peace.

I talk to my husband every day. I get tired of talking to him, so I take a break. I need room to breathe and think without anyone expecting me to say a word before I am ready. I choose not to bare my soul to him. There is no guarantee he believes what I am saying, so why should I bare my soul? I get the whole you need to be open argument, but does that apply with no trust? He opens up to me and exposes little spectrums of light. He quickly shuts down because clearly trusting me the first time was a lesson he will never forget. He still has the burns to prove it. Life is grand. No, we have not talked in-depth today either. I will see him at 4 and not a minute before. I will talk to him during counselling for 120 minutes, so I am not exactly up for a long draining talk before. We can talk after, too. Just not before.
 
Last edited:
I choose not to bare my soul to him. There is no guarantee he believes what I am saying, so why should I bare my soul?

Because if you want to be in the continuing marriage, and for it to become the kind of long term marriage you envy in your parents' marriage... that is the price of admission.

Someone has to go first. So part of your making amends could be going first.

Hang in there. I hope your week away together is helpful.

Galagirl
 
Because if you want to be in the continuing marriage, and for it to become the kind of long term marriage you envy in your parents' marriage... that is the price of admission.

Someone has to go first. So part of your making amends could be going first.

Hang in there. I hope your week away together is helpful.

Galagirl

I get that, but he doubts everything I say, who is that helping? I see no benefit. It feels like being slapped in the face.
 
To reestablish trust you need to see this level of honesty, day in, day out, for a long time. He may not trust you right now. He may not trust you for a long time. The benefit is in establishing a pattern of showing that you are trustworthy, regardless of how he perceives you in the here-and-now. Eventually, as this new pattern is established, it will help the process of regaining trust.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Hang in there...
 
To reestablish trust you need to see this level of honesty, day in, day out, for a long time. He may not trust you right now. He may not trust you for a long time. The benefit is in establishing a pattern of showing that you are trustworthy, regardless of how he perceives you in the here-and-now. Eventually, as this new pattern is established, it will help the process of regaining trust.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Hang in there...

A marathon I am not conditioned for and ultimately may not complete.
 
A marathon I am not conditioned for and ultimately may not complete.


con·di·tion·ing (kn-dsh-nng)
n. Psychology
A process of behavior modification by which a subject comes to associate a desired behavior with a previously unrelated stimulus.


I'd say you are very much in the conditioning phase at the moment. Expect to be sore and feel like quitting. As you become stronger, so will you become better able to resist fatigue. Breathe well. Take breaks. Stay hydrated. Hang in there, Ry.
 
we are still in the infantry of recovery and honest discovery.

I think you meant infancy :D. Keep this in mind when you get discouraged. It has ONLY been 9 weeks to change and undo what you spent 12 years making automatic. It will take time. There is only so much "talking" that can be done before your re-hashing the same thing over and over again, which isn't helpful. Talk about everyday stuff or plans for the move, dreams for your house, the stupidity of a tv show, etc. or don't talk and just be in each others company. There were many times, I saved all my "talking" for counceling, otherwise I wouldn't have anything to say once we got there and somehow, it made a bigger impact in that setting.
 
I think you meant infancy :D. Keep this in mind when you get discouraged. It has ONLY been 9 weeks to change and undo what you spent 12 years making automatic. It will take time. There is only so much "talking" that can be done before your re-hashing the same thing over and over again, which isn't helpful. Talk about everyday stuff or plans for the move, dreams for your house, the stupidity of a tv show, etc. or don't talk and just be in each others company. There were many times, I saved all my "talking" for counceling, otherwise I wouldn't have anything to say once we got there and somehow, it made a bigger impact in that setting.

Autocorrect.

I prefer to be by myself. I just get tired of talking, and I want to be one with myself. I rarely watch TV. The DVR cue has about 90 shows recorded. The dreams for our house? I am not there to micromanage, and I have to depend a third party to be honest. It drives me crazy having to depend on anybody and trusting that they will get it done. Long distance renovations are ideal for some. For me? I am thinking about all that is likely wrong. f it was not so far, that is where we would be spending a week. I hate awkward silence. That is what being in someone's company does for me. I end up walking away and doing something more productive than sitting in a room not saying a word. We have been out of counselling for almost two hours. I have been by myself for 1 hr and 54 mins. I will see him in about 35 minutes, so we can go to dinner.
 
I prefer to be by myself. I just get tired of talking, and I want to be one with myself. I rarely watch TV. The DVR cue has about 90 shows recorded. The dreams for our house? I am not there to micromanage, and I have to depend a third party to be honest. It drives me crazy having to depend on anybody and trusting that they will get it done. Long distance renovations are ideal for some. For me? I am thinking about all that is likely wrong. f it was not so far, that is where we would be spending a week.

Now your nit picking my suggestions and missing my point - just talk about anything other than relationship issues. Anxiety over the renovations is exactly what I'm talking about.

I hate awkward silence. That is what being in someone's company does for me. I end up walking away and doing something more productive than sitting in a room not saying a word.

Not suggesting sitting in a room and doing nothing - but maybe you guys need some time to PRACTICE, just taking a walk holding hands and not talking, etc. I find this harder to do at home, there is always a distraction or something to do. Silence between you doesn't have to be awkward. I have found it can be fun to just sit together, hands, legs or feet touching (some body part for a physical connection), while we each play on our own cell phone or tablet. Not all the time, but if I don't make the effort, I will tend to isolate myself too much.
 
Last edited:
Now your nit picking my suggestions and missing my point - just talk about anything other than relationship issues. Anxiety over the renovations is exactly what I'm talking about.



Not suggesting sitting in a room and doing nothing - but maybe you guys need some time to PRACTICE, just taking a walk holding hands and not talking, etc. I find this harder to do at home, there is always a distraction or something to do. Silence between you doesn't have to be awkward. I have found it can be fun to just sit together, hands, legs or feet touching (some body part for a physical connection), while we each play on our own cell phone or tablet. Not all the time, but if I don't make the effort, I will tend to isolate myself too much.

You are right. It will require practise. I just find contentment in being alone. I am slowly getting used to it anyway. He can do his thing, and I can do mine. That is the way it has become anyway.
 
I get that, but he doubts everything I say, who is that helping? I see no benefit. It feels like being slapped in the face.

It helps YOU do your part in helping out YOUR MARRIAGE. You are present and accountable at the negotiation table. (other thread, similar concept)

You are showing up at the table to attend to your marriage and for you to be accountable IN your marriage and TO your marriage.

That's who it helps. YOU. And your marriage.

There's no halfsies here. You are either IN the marriage showing up still trying to connect or you are absent, no longer trying to connect and moving away from the marriage.

If that long term marriage goal is what you want? You have to keep showing up to be present and accounted for. You may not know what to do or say but... you are HERE. To learn it.

If that long term marriage goal is what you want? Attendance at the marriage is not optional. It is mandatory.

Hang in there.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Nightly Check-in

Our date night was pretty great. My hubby's the perfect gentleman and sweet when he wants to be. I was wondering when or if that side would ever make an appearance again.

He sensed that I was feeling down and asked me if I wanted to talk about it over ice cream or froyo. That became our "thing" years ago. I can remember all the late night frozen yoghurt runs. Initially I said no, but I later said yes. I am happy I did. I opened up to him about all that I have been feeling this past week. I still say being vulnerable sucks. I am viewing it like a necessary evil. It helped that he was not trying to be my Superman and heal all of my problems. He listened, and that is priceless. Oddly enough, I felt better after talking to him. I managed to crack into some of his thoughts, as well. It was nice to talk about something other than all of our issues. I think I forgot how to laugh and even smile. Laughter really is good for the soul.

We have agreed to go ahead and start the search for another therapist in our new city. We are still on the fence about whether or not to continue the sessions here. I am just not sure if it will make much difference if we stop now. I know there is a high likelihood of regression, but in all seriousness, we have years worth of damage to repair and years worth of habits to undo. This is not going to be an overnight or remotely easy process. Is there a chance of us doing more damage? Possibly, but I am sure we will figure out what is for the best.

We have already compiled a list of six possible people in the region, and today, we are going to set-up initial consultations. He has three, and I have three. Team work. We are on the same page for once, and after discussing it, we have agreed to spend our week in Oz. We are devoting the first couple of days to checking out our six choices. I am happy with that, and I appreciate the effort he is putting forth. It seems like he cares about our marriage.

It was an idea in the back of my mind, but surprisingly, it was him who presented the idea. He thinks we need to find a therapist closer to our new home, and face to face interaction sets me at ease. After talking over dinner and froyo, he also knows that I am very anxious to see the renovations. It is nice to have some type of agreement in place about something other than relationship issues. Do not get me wrong. I trust the people on-site, but it will help us breathe a little easier if we can physically see the progress now. Matt saw it in mid-late March, but it is now May. It is important to know if our new home will be move-in ready by July. If not, we have to have somewhere to live until they finish.

I know this was a big job, so patience, understanding, and constant communication have been pertinent every step of the way. I will not complain because we got a steep discount, and they have been working hard. The previous owner was in construction, and he offered to use his connections to help us out. We are grateful for that.

As far as our trip, we have agreed on 31 May to 9 June. We talked to my parents, and they are joining us for this lovely unexpected holiday. We are treating them, since they are giving up a week of their time to help us out. I love my parents. I just could not imagine leaving my children so far away without at least one of us being close. They have agreed to come, but they have made it very clear that the week is still about us. They are still watching our children just as it was planned before, and we are not to worry about anything but each other. To make sure of that, we are staying at different hotels, and there will be limited joint plans. That was not my idea.

We just feel like we need something a little deeper than a marriage counsellor, so our search efforts are going to be a bit more extensive. We found a Psychotherapist, who has extensive experience with poly relationships and marital counselling. If this person has to be part of our lives for months or years, it has to be someone we both get on well with and have a connection with.

All in all, I am feeling much better after talking to Matt and glad we have some type of plans in place.

I am off to bed. I need to get some rest, so I can face another day. I am up this late because it is another 10 AM day. Here is to today being better than the rest of the week. :)

Ry
 
It helps YOU do your part in helping out YOUR MARRIAGE. You are present and accountable at the negotiation table. (other thread, similar concept)

You are showing up at the table to attend to your marriage and for you to be accountable IN your marriage and TO your marriage.

That's who it helps. YOU. And your marriage.

There's no halfsies here. You are either IN the marriage showing up still trying to connect or you are absent, no longer trying to connect and moving away from the marriage.

If that long term marriage goal is what you want? You have to keep showing up to be present and accounted for. You may not know what to do or say but... you are HERE. To learn it.

If that long term marriage goal is what you want? Attendance at the marriage is not optional. It is mandatory.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

This makes sense. I showed up and did not contribute a thing. I cannot recall five things that were said yesterday. I knew that would happen. My thoughts were absent from the building. Yes, I present and accounted for physically. Mentally, I was elsewhere. I could have stayed where I was. I felt like I wasted everybody's time. We should have cancelled.
 
Yes, I present and accounted for physically. Mentally, I was elsewhere. I could have stayed where I was. I felt like I wasted everybody's time. We should have cancelled.

Sounds like you showing up did your spouse some good. And because of you doing that, it did your marriage in turn some good. Even you just being there and showing up to be counted. PRESENT for roll call even if you mind struggles to stay present where it finds things yucky. You do not enjoy being vulnerable and dealing in "feeelings" and yet you are still there doing it for you, him, and marriage.

Look at where it seemed to lead to next?

And what you write most recently:
All in all, I am feeling much better after talking to Matt and glad we have some type of plans in place.

You remind me of the quote in "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett.

"It might, or might not, have helped Anathema get a clear view of things if she'd been allowed to spot the very obvious reason why she couldn't see Adam's aura. It was for the same reason that people in Trafalgar Square can't see England."


Your marriage (and its needs) is bigger than you (and your needs.) You are in the marriage. But the marriage is bigger than you.

Can't always be looking at if from "tree level" tree by tree. Gotta move up to the balcony view sometimes and learn see if from the "forest" angle.

Maybe thinking about that perspective could help you when you are feeling ugh or down?

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Back
Top