Redpepper's journey

This weekend, I am moving upstairs. I can't stand being down here anymore with these memories. PN has agreed to move his stuff down here for the duration of the month, until he moves out. I rented the apartment, the mortgage transfers later this month to me and our separation agreement is almost finalized.

On to new things. I will be responsible, entirely, for getting that branch cut that is over the roof, for raking at least 70 bags of leaves this fall, for hand watering the garden every night, for wading through the Christmas decorations come Christmas time. These are the things that keep me up last night.

I didn't want any of this. I didn't ask for this. It seems my two men were done with me long ago and it took them this long to leave my life. It seems LB and I are the ones grieving the end of BLB house now, while they grieved it long ago. I am angry. I worked so hard to build up a beautiful family and now I am alone to sit in the memories this house has. Right now, it wasn't worth it.

I am sitting here listening to LB in the shower and PN coaxing him along. Soon everything will change. I am ready for it.

One of Mono's friends and I had a long talk over many beers the other night. It was helpful and moved me forward. She said she has met with him and he shows no sign of remorse or understanding of his impact on our family. He simply said we are better off without him, that he has moved on to his new family and that he will be a better man from now on. She thought he sounded like he was convincing himself... Perhaps those are the words he and his new girlfriend repeat. Likely he has convinced her he will change. The devil doesn't change into an angel simply because he says he is an angel now.

We are better off without him, on many levels, But damn it, we were good with him too. If it weren't for his deceit and infidelity, maybe things would have been different. But then again, he was done and because he was too much of a coward to admit it, he left a road of destruction instead.
 
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"Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt"? from the movie Ronan.

I had doubt in my relationship with Mono and I was led to believe, by him, that I was crazy for thinking that. If ever I have that gut feeling of something is not right again in a relationship, I must remember to trust that.
 
RP, I am sorry for your losses. You have a lot of friends to help you. Someone can cut the branch, you can scale back on the garden.

Rest and heal.
 
I was reminded of Mono's original story... I had forgotten.

After what seemed like an affair (I never got a clear story about what happened, and still suspect that stuff happened with people I know), he asked to be 'open,' to try poly. He dated a woman in the community to try poly out. If you remember, I lost it. (Read back if you want to remember why.)

My response to his wanting an open relationship with a DADT was his reason to go underground, he said. The thing is, he already had gone underground. 'Trying it out' was a test, a manipulation of the story he was trying to set, to see how I would respond, so he could use it to justify his leaving eventually. He said he didn't like the response, when really it may just have been very convenient.

There have been a couple of times I threatened to leave, and I really meant to. But he begged me not to, and I thought it was because he loved me and wanted to work it out. Really, I think for him it was not only an indication of the destruction to our lives he would cause if I found out his secrets, but also a way to blame me.

Eventually, perhaps to avoid the shame, he twisted the story to blame me for his inability to stay.

He used the story of my 'losing it' on him and threatening to leave, instead of somehow agreeing with what he wanted, as an excuse to break up with me a few months back. I am understanding now that if I had somehow understood what he wanted then, things might not have died between us. Really, it was cowardly that he didn't leave when he claims he didn't love me any more. Instead, I was strung along and blamed.

He could never really break up with me and I didn't understand why. I thought it was because he loved our family and loved me, until I found out the real reasons behind his confused state.

He had a secret and tried to leave with it, but didn't want to leave and be alone. It was way easier, I imagine, to leave when he believed he could love someone again. He tried to make me feel it was my fault he was leaving, because I was not emotionally stable and because I was distraught several times, that it was me that was making him stay, when really he didn't want to.

I need to remember this part of the story. I had forgotten.
 
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A nightmare turned into a dream last night:

He was trying to have sex with me and he couldn't get inside me. I was closed up. Eventually he got off of me and looked embarrassed. He joked around and said it was okay, he had his gf every night and that he didn't need me anyway.

I believed that I was closed off from his hurting me and from allowing him to enter my heart again. To hear he didn't care because he had another and because I was reminded he had had others to fill his need that I couldn't fill, used to wake me and fill me with pain, tears, horror, fear, despair, disgust, anxiety, grief.

I was nothing to him in this nightmare. Just some bitch with a gaping hole between my legs that he couldn't access and therefore had to put down in anyway he could; control the situation of not being allowed in by blowing me off and bragging about his conquest and sexual achievements. I felt reminded that I was someone he felt obliged to be with and had responsibilities to that he could barely stand. His embarrassment was that he couldn't control me and quickly turned it into manipulating the situation in order to gain control.

Last night I woke up after the second part. It became a dream:

I got up from where we were lying and shrugged him off. I left him chatting on about himself and walked away. I felt nothing, a little disgust maybe, but mostly that feeling of needing to leave now because this was stupid.

I walked over to a tree (we were outside in my backyard) and underneath the tree were several items I had trusted him to look after. They were battered, dirty, had obviously been rained on and left there with no thought. They were abandoned and thrown aside as if they meant nothing.

(This reminded me of the scratches his friends and he left on the door to the suite when they moved him out. I came around the corner to them pushing something out of the door that was not going through it easily. In their frustration and lack of giving a shit the doorway is now scratched. When they saw me they changed their approach. They thought I hadn't seen them.)

I came to know that Mono had thought I wouldn't find out about my belongings being discarded. I began to gather the belongings and make plans to have bigger things moved. The whole time he was talking talking talking, as he sometimes did. Joking and small talk... nothing of substance and certainly no apology or concern for my stuff.

I phoned some friends, called for a moving truck, began putting things into bags and boxes and walked away from him.

There was pain, disappointment, sadness, but mostly a sense of NEVER allowing someone to treat me that way again; determination and resilience.

I woke up today.... and for the second time yelled out loud, "FUCK YOU!" (The first time was when I rented the suite and was satisfied at the substantial amount of more rent I am going to get. ;))
 
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"Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt"? from the movie Ronan.

I had doubt in my relationship with Mono and I was lead to believe, by him, that I was crazy for thinking that.

If ever I have that gut feeling of something is not right again in a relationship I must remember to trust that.

I was on my daily walk through a beautiful garden today. I go through a rose garden that at this time of year is in full bloom and overflowing with flowers and scent. It is in an enclosed area that is surrounded by a black iron fence. I open the gate and walk through one side and come out the other side. It reminds me of my mind and reminds me how full it is, but that I need to find calm when I am there.

For several years I have done that walk with a low level of concern and anxiety. There was something not right in my world. I could feel it in that garden, the place I would allow a moment of reflection and meditation, and never know why I could not shake that strange feeling of missing something, or that I should be doing something. I though it was boredom, or leftover feelings from several break-ups and life changes. But it wasn't. It was that I had an intuitive feeling that my world was not as I thought it was. It wasn't what I thought it was. I was right to think that.

Lately I go on that walk and watch myself put one foot in front of the other, feel my body and the warm summer air around me and the veil is lifted. I smiled today and was content to just be me. On my own and full of potential, thinking of all the wonderful things that have happened this month. The connections re-established, the new people I have met, the small titch of love that is filling my heart about some of those potentials, the pride of having achieved so much in the last weeks, but mostly.... the JOY of realizing that I am not bored at all with my life. I am over and through the worst and I have so much to look forward to... a moment of hope.
 
Was he not a liar and cheat in his marriage? He seems to have cranked up the manipulation level with you and that can be so hard to credit when one is a normal person with a conscience and empathy. You tried to protect yourself in the ways a normal person would when faced with the evidence you had. You were not to know what you were actually facing. Considering the level of devastation such people are capable of wreaking (identity theft, bankruptcy, slander, on top of the heartbreak and humiliation) you did pretty well at safeguarding yourself. I am so glad to hear you are recovering your equilibrium. Keep being your loving, expansive self. Your story has been helpful to many people.

leetah
 
It occurs to me how unimportant I was to Mono. I felt so important for so long, but really I was the brunt of his joke of a life. How humiliating and sad. How am I going to trust my importance to someone again?

One step back today. And I was doing so well....

Last week I got my motorbike license after taking a course. It was the week of the ride Mono and I were to go on together with "our" friends. The day of the exam was the first day last year we went on a ride for a week, just the two of us and the mountains. To me it was a ride that would bond us closer together and launch us into a future, just us two.

I found out Mono had been with a woman at the naval base (a block away) several times during the week or so before we left. She was waiting for him to come home to resume their activities. When he got home, he emailed her to say they wouldn't meet again, not because we had had a bonding time and he wanted to stay connected to me, but because PN had said he wanted to move out and Mono had to figure out again how to dump me. (It seems that other times he was not able to do it.) He had to dump me because he couldn't continue his double life if I didn't have other people/partners in mine.
 
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I am finding it very useful to post what comes up as I remember bits and pieces. I don't know how useful it is that I am making it public, but I at least hope it helps others in some way. I am not sure how. I guess as a matter of identifying what can happen. It's so easy to go from 'super poly' to alone and wondering if I will ever date someone I am inspired to build a life with again. Super glee and good times can lead to super lows and hard times. In the meantime, it is helping me to write.

I wonder sometimes what Mono would say about this all. He hated that I was so open with who I am, my thoughts and opinions, and that I wore everything on my sleeve. He described it as my being passionate. I gathered he saw that as a bad thing. I wonder if part of his issues in trying to leave me and in not telling me of his secret life were because he suspected I would make them very public. There are things I keep to myself, but I certainly don't feel the need to hide what I feel, and part of that is telling the story as I see it and know. If I knew what was happening for him, or how he feels, I would be able to understand and be more able to be compassionate. As it is, I can only try and make sense of what I know. I find it very unlikely he will ever talk to me again.

It amazes me now how frivolous and meaningless my concerns have been about anything else and any other relationship struggle I had. I've decided during the past six weeks to make friends, or at least acquaintances again, with just about everyone I have found myself in conflict with. Some I just can't process yet and maybe never will, but mostly I have no reason to hold onto anything.
 
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Hi Redpepper, I just wanted to say hi and give virtual hugs. I haven't been here in a while but just finished reading the last 5-7 pages of this thread. So very sorry to hear about your pain and loss. Lies are so damaging. It is comparable to death when we discover the person we loved did not ever actually exist.

Anyway, my heart goes out to you and I hope you know the important part, which is that you love yourself and know your own worth is not reflected by the disrespect you have been shown.

<3
 
A week ago today, PN moved out. LB was away with his grandparents for the week and I was utterly and painfully alone to face my fears. There were some dire moments of excruciating wailing and gut-wrenching sorrow as a result, as my past spoke to me about times I was abandoned by my mother. I have been forced to face my inner little person. As there is no other option, I've decided to embrace the circumstances and use this time I am forced to have to heal and REALLY deal with myself.

Interestingly, my mother is VERY angry that I have been "abandoned" by the men that were suppose to be in my life always. Her anger is creating problems in the family. Her shame about her role in my childhood may be reflected as she watches me struggle to get on my feet. She can do nothing about it except be there, which she has been, every step of the way.

In the meantime, I have learned some new language around narcissistic personality disorder and can see what my role was in the circumstances I allowed myself to be in. I believe I was a "supply" to Mono's need to be loved and admired. His ego needed someone to prove his worth and I was manipulated into giving him that through his attention toward me in our early years. I was set up to give it to him. Even though I had others in my life, it was always all about him. I loved him like no other. But he created that in me, to the detriment of my self-love. At least, that is what I allowed.

Later he became uninterested, as he had "harvested" all the love he could get from me and was not feeling anything toward me. He sought it out in others. I became a fall-back that eventually was not worth keeping when he believed he loved someone else. Really, he was looking for a new supply and found it in an unsuspecting woman that potentially could fill up his ego again in various ways. I feel for her and her future.

For me there was just confusion. I felt unsure of what to do next in life, dropped most of my activities, was always looking for answers to why I felt the way I did and projecting my weird feelings onto others, when really the answers were all right here at home, if I had just known.

So here I sit, again, contemplating where I am, having dated just about everyone on POF and OK Cupid, :p having had a summer fling that looks to be done (yay me, at least I got some closeness and intimacy) and nurturing some interesting relationships with men that may yield some new trust and adventures.

I am not letting myself get pinned down, but am looking for those that make an effort to come to me, rather than me to them. I want to be chased, but for all the right reasons and by the right person. I hope I see them standing there waiting for me to walk into their path. Who knows? Maybe it will be a woman.

Three months of healing and getting my life on track has lead to a new and invigorated me that sometimes gets scared and isn't always on her game, but is at least confident that it will be okay and that I will pull through eventually.
 
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Yay Redpepper! Good on you! It sounds like you are not only recovering your strength, but adding to it.

Keep in mind that while you allowed his behaviors, he had spent his time manipulating you into doing it. You did not have an adequate frame of reference, I imagine, to help you spot it from inside. Now you do.
 
I've been grief dating... and it's caught up with me.

There is a guy I have been seeing since Mono left. I had a surge of dating the day after I kicked him out. I met a man and I have been seeing him all summer. Nothing serious, but company, somewhere to go when I'm lonely, if he will have me. He often hasn't been available. It's been helpful and comforting to have someone in my life who is experiencing something similar to me.

A few weeks ago, he lost his license for the second time, due to driving drunk. He is unable to work. His life unraveled and it has been made clear to me that he is an alcoholic. Our time together has changed now that he is sober. He wants to spend more time with me and make plans, yet he obviously has a ton of work to do. To his credit, he is doing that work and I admire that.

In the wave of many many dates, some of whom I still see casually, I met another man. He has been single for years and wants to meet someone to marry and build a life with. He wants me to himself and is head over heels and excited at who I could be to him. No sharing. No poly.

I'm stuck. Neither man is aware of the other and I am nowhere near interested in anything partnered or committed. I was having fun doing my thing and getting to know myself as single and free. I am just getting to the point of enjoying my alone time and seeing what's out there in the world. There is also lots of unfinished business to deal with from the separation and I have little time for romance.

Motto of the story: grief-dating monos is all very well, but it can catch up. Now I am left deciding what to do. Realistically, I think it's best if I let go of both... Thoughts?
 
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I'm completely opposed to letting go of anyone I like being around. I am totally in favor of explaining my needs and wants and how I feel. Sometimes the second sentence changes whether I like being around someone.

:)
 
I've been grief dating... and it's caught up.

One guy I have been seeing since Mono left. I had a surge of dating the day after I kicked him out and met a man I have been seeing all summer. Nothing serious but company and somewhere to go when I'm lonely, if he will have me. He often hasn't been available. It's been helpful and comforting to have someone in my life who is experiencing something similar to me...

A few weeks ago he lost his licence for the second time due to driving drunk and is unable to work. His life unraveled and it has been made clear to me that he is an alcoholic. Our time together has changed now that he is sober and he wants to spend more time with me and make plans yet he obviously has a ton of work to do. to his credit he is doing that work and I admire that.

In the wave of many many dates, some of whom I still see cadually, I met another man. He has been single for years and wants to meet someone to marry and build a life with. He wants me to himself and is head over heels and excited at who I could be to him. No sharing. No poly.

I'm stuck. Neither man is aware of the other and I am no where near interested in anything partnered or committed. I was having fun doing my thing and getting to know myself as single and free. I am just getting to the point of enjoying my alone time and seeing what's out there in the world. There is also lots of unfinished business to deal with from the seperation and I have little time for romance.

Motto of the story... grief dating monos is all very well but it can catch up. Now I am left deciding on what to do. Realistically I think it's best if I let go of both.... thoughts?

Just be truthful. Say they are looking for commitment (Door X) and you're wanting non-committed/casual (Door Y). If they still want to pursue you after that, it's on their own head, because you told them how it is for you, and what you want right now, without going into all the details, but also stating your boundaries. But they may never get Door X out of Door Y. They go two different places. A visual like that makes it easier for the men not to internalise it themselves, and keeps the door open for friendship.
 
Hi RP,

My opinions, for what they're worth...

The newly sober guy needs to focus on his sobriety. That means learning how to function in his daily life without alcohol. You didn't mention whether he joined AA or not, but they usually recommend not making major changes in the first year of sobriety, and especially in the first 90 days. Hey, maybe you could ask Ariakas what he thinks, if he is still a member of AA. (For anyone reading this, I did not give away his anonymity by saying that, because Ariakas has talked about his sobriety here.)

Anyway, it may be that this guy wants to focus more on a relationship with you as a little bit of a crutch or escape, because it's scary getting sober for the first time and not knowing what to do if you're not drinking. Many newly-sober people easily latch onto relationships and make them their new "drug of choice." So, that is something to be cautious about.

If you still want to see him, but not in a big, committed way, I would gently tell him that you're happy to keep things light and casual,but you are still grieving your marriage/relationships ending and don't have the energy or desire to commit to anything too demanding right now. I would also gently mention that you are concerned about distracting him from the inner work he needs to do to stay sober, and you don't want a relationship with you to become a substitute for the alcohol.

As for the other guy, what he wants is so obviously incompatible with where you're at, RP, it shouldn't be that hard to tell him exactly what you wrote above:
"I am nowhere near interested in anything partnered or committed. I was having fun doing my thing and getting to know myself as single and free. I am just getting to the point of enjoying my alone time and seeing what's out there in the world. There is also lots of unfinished business to deal with from the seperation and I have little time for romance."​

Stay strong, RP! If you know you only want to date people as a way to find comfort and companionship, with no heavy commitments right now, then you need to let yourself be okay with expressing that.
 
I've also had some big losses and all I can suggest is to be as honest as you can be about where you're at and what you need. It's ok if anyone in your life can't fulfill a need. It doesn't have to mean the end of anything.

I've found that I'm very conscientious lately about where my energy goes, because there isn't a whole lot of it to go around. I crave relationships that are either solid, familiar or simple. No patience for the energy of new people and no patience for drama or relationships that take far more than they give-- with very few exceptions.

If the people in your life give you support, happiness, whatever exchange you have with them that ends up as a positive, then do what you can to sustain those relationships.
 
I talked to one guy I have dated all summer (the one with the addiction issues) and he was cool with me dating others. I told him that actually I was putting him on hold for the time being, as I wanted to see what would happen with the other guy. He wasn't surprised and told me he didn't love me anyway, that it was fun to "try me on," but really there was nothing there. Fair enough. Nice to know. It's made it easier to walk away. I might go back and "try it on" a bit more in the future, as something that casual is maybe all I can handle. He needs time to sort himself out anyway and I don't want to get in the way of that.

The other guy has jumped right in with long-term relationship plans and I am having trouble holding onto my need for time and space to heal. It's way too soon to be making plans with anyone, but I enjoy that someone actually wants to. Really, I don't know what to make of it all and am living moment-to-moment, standing firm on my boundaries. They seem to boggle him a bit, but so far he is okay with just waiting to see. It wouldn't be poly with him but part of me doesn't really care. I could take it or leave it, depending on the person. For some time, I have not subscribed to the point of view of once poly, always poly, or once mono, always mono. It's all fluid and dependent on who I am with and the timing of the relationship.
 
I saw this yesterday and honestly, because of it being a blog and because I don't think you're in a great place right now, I decided not to comment.

However, today, during a topic search, I came across something you wrote in the past: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=56240&postcount=11

Sometimes we need to see what we are like at our best when we are at a worst. Just so we maintain our standards, you know?
Wow, I said that, huh? haha! Thanks for the reminder. It's weird to reread that.

I'm not sure what you are relating the quote to, however. Would you say more about that, please?
 
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