the story of a secondary

I just stumbled upon this and I would LOVE to hear how it's working out. I'm married and have a boyfriend, and babies are a topic of interest to me.
 
I just stumbled upon this and I would LOVE to hear how it's working out. I'm married and have a boyfriend, and babies are a topic of interest to me.

My gf has gone through a lot of changes over the course of her pregnancy and the first 1.5 years of her baby's life so far, and so has our relationship. Her ease in being physically intimate with me has lowered, as, of course, has her free time (the latter more drastically). But we've held it together, and have grown our relationship during that time -- doing new things together, trying more kinky stuff. We're even planning on going on an out of state trip together later this year, which will be a huge first for our relationship.

Being involved in her child's life has been truly wonderful. I enjoy babysitting, and I know it's a major help to her and her husband, as they work to keep their own relationship strong during this difficult phase of early parenthood. At the same time, it's been emotionally trying. Secondary relationships often are to begin with, especially if one partner (me in this case) doesn't have a full-time primary partner of their own and the other does. I'm very aware of the limits on her time and focus, and of the fact that she's growing a family that I'm close to, but not a part of. Sometimes I get sad about it, and I wouldn't recommend this sort of relationship to someone more needy or emotionally fragile. But the good stuff, for me at least, far outweighs the bad.

If you want more details, just read my posts over the last two years -- I've been pretty thorough. :)
 
It's been a rough few days.

On Friday, Gia and Eric had a party at their place, just a little movie watching thing. I gave them both a lift to their place from the city, then hung out with them as we prepped for the gathering.

As we chatted, Eric mentioned how surprised and pleased he was that he's been dating Helen for four months so far and that everything's been going very well -- better, he noted, than with some people he knows who are only with one person. We'd been talking about our other partners all night and I'd been just fine, but somehow that particular comment hit me badly.

I was vaguely offended that he seemed to be implying that the expectation should be that poly will go poorly. I was just plain jealous that he did, in fact, consider himself to be dating her. She's his girlfriend. You know, the thing he didn't want when I'd checked in on the subject a couple of years ago. And I was profoundly annoyed at myself for being hurt by something he'd said years ago when I know that 1) things change, 2) I never *really* even asked directly if he'd like to try that with me, 3) I haven't even been available to date him myself, and, most of all, 4) if it wasn't right with me it wasn't right and that's OK.

The offense, jealousy, and annoyance blended together into a sort of sullen, sulky mindset that I did NOT want to be in but wasn't sure how to escape. Bleh bleh bleh. In hindsight, it would have been best to take a walk around the block to re-center. Instead, I did my best to ignore it. As the night went on I felt off, thrown, like I just couldn't do anything right -- even my attempts at simple cocktails came out gross, as if in reflection of my disordered thoughts.

Both Helen and Dexter came to the party, along with several of our other friends. I kept a bit more to myself than I normally would, until a drink or two loosened and relaxed me... a little too much, as it turns out. At one point, I was sitting on the floor, leaning against Helen's legs -- she was seated on the couch behind me. I honestly forget how this happened, but she ended up punching my shoulder. I laughed, said I liked it (I did), said she should do it harder. She obliged, and we went through several rounds of her hitting me harder and me exhorting her to do it even harder.

I... might have gone a little over the top and yelled at her, in my enthusiasm, about how she ought to go even harder. She stopped. I suddenly realized how pushy and maybe even creepy I was being. I was aghast at myself. Gia swooped in and reassured Helen that she hadn't done anything wrong, that it was cool to stop. I hastened to agree, and to apologize, profusely. Helen is a nervous person by nature, and I couldn't believe that I'd made her uncomfortable in such a selfish way, and that I'd let myself look like such an ass in front of Gia. Ugh. No way to take it back, though.

I withdrew even more... not so much so that it would've necessarily been obvious to anyone that I was upset, but clearly different from my normally gregarious self. I didn't know what else to do. I kept catching myself thinking that Gia was happier to see Dexter, more interested in him, than she'd been with me, for no good reason. I was just a mess, mentally.

Near the end of the night, I rested my head on Eric's lap for a bit and he ruffled my hair. It was nice, but I barely had it in me to enjoy it. I laid on the couch, and Gia sat on top of me, something we'd discussed before and that I had been very enthused about. It was nice, but, again, distraction kept me from savoring it fully. At the end of the night, with most of the other guests gone, she and I kissed goodnight. She said that it seemed like I'd been upset and I acknowledged that I had but that I was feeling better (sort of a lie?).

Most of the time I feel like an adult, but sometimes I feel like a teenager again. That night was one of those times.

The next day I was just kicking myself mentally all day long for how I'd acted with Helen. I talked to a couple of other friends who'd been at the party and they said they honestly thought it hadn't been that big of a deal, and that helped me finally calm down about it. I realized that maybe part of why I took it so hard was that I felt rejected in my kink -- like, hurt by the fact that she was freaked out by me liking what she was doing. So, yeah, I maybe should have been more sensitive and chill towards her, but I probably over-focused on that aspect of it in the midst of my embarrassment and sense of rejection and the malaise of all the other stuff I was feeling. Idek. Mostly over it now -- and definitely feeling 1,000% more chill and normal about the fact of my lovers having other lovers -- but I'll probably still reach out to apologize to her, just to see what she says.

In other news, Davis and I sort of mostly broke up yesterday. More on that when I have more time to write.
 
I recently read your whole blog from the beginning and was so captivated by your journey.. this last entry makes me sad.. so sorry to hear that things are tough right now.
 
You are Lovely.

It sounds like you're feeling much worse than the situation actually merits, based on what other people have said, and just from my own personal opinion. Sometimes we're just off, and that's okay; no reason to beat yourself up over it, that's for sure. You're so conscientious and thoughtful, and with so much going on mentally it makes sense that things were a little off. I've been there, and know how wretched it feels, but there is always next time to have things go more smoothly. Hugs.

Makes sense to me that you'd be feeling jealous and nervy about Helen and Eric - I'd have a tough time with that in your shoes too. It'll get easier!
 
Thanks for the thoughts, all.

It sounds like you're feeling much worse than the situation actually merits, based on what other people have said, and just from my own personal opinion.

You're completely right about this, I took it waaay harder than necessary. It just struck a real nerve, I think, when my nerves were already jangling. I messaged Helen about it today and she laughed off the idea that I had anything to feel bad about. The conversation actually had a bit of a flirty tone. Not sure I want to go there? Hmm. No reason to dwell on it.
 
It came down to this, essentially, over the course of a couple of days --

Me: I don't think this is working out. We're nowhere near getting to the place we were aiming for when we started.
Davis: I don't necessarily disagree. I just think it means we need to re-commit, work harder.
Me: I don't know that I can. I care for you deeply, but I don't see building my life with you. You deserve someone you can do that with.
Davis: I want to fight for this. I want to fight for you. I love you so much.
Me: ;_; oh god i am making a terrible mistake
Me: idek what's wrong with me, you are so lovely and brave and good
Davis: So, we're not breaking up?
Me: I don't know.
Me: ...
Me: Yeah, no, I know I really do want to break up. As conflicted as I am, this has been on my mind for way too long. And I think that means we can't be friends. Because we tried that before, and we just ended up back together.
Davis: What if we just decided we were both going to really give this our all instead?
Me: No. I know what my core is trying to tell me. I need to let this relationship go.
Davis: Ok.
Davis: Wait, not ok. ;_; I'm so isolated right now, I don't even know what to do or who to call. I feel utterly alone and lost.
Me: Oh yeah, you had kinda been telling me that all your closest friends had dropped off the map lately... and then there's that whole history of depression and mental issues thing you've got going on... I truly don't know what would happen to you if you were completely cut off from support.
Me: ...fuck. I won't leave you alone. I promise. I'm here for you, as a friend, if you need me.
Davis: Thank you.
Me: Losing our friendship had been my greatest fear all along, anyway, really.
Me: Is this ridiculously unhealthy though?
Davis: Maybe? I have no idea.
Me: Wouldn't it be better for you if I were gone entirely?
Davis: That's for me to decide.
Davis: Here's my proposal. We'll stay friends, no expectations, no rules, no guidelines, no relationship.
Davis: And if we fall back into bed together from time to time? So be it.
Me: I'm too tired to debate any more, even though I'm very concerned that I'm doing the wrong thing by not cutting myself out of your life, and that us being fwb's would be detrimental to you. But god, it feels good to think that I don't have to stop talking to you. I hate thinking of not knowing how you're doing.
The various friends to whom I've spoken about this: The friend part sounds good! The fwb part sounds unhealthy like woah.
Me: Yeah, I know. I'm figuring it out, ok?
The various friends to whom I've spoken about this: Ok.
 
(((((hugs)))))
 
Yay hugs. :)

Last night, I hung out with Gia and helped watch Bee while Eric had an evening with Helen. We did an arts & crafts thing, watched cartoons, made dinner, I gave Bee a bath. He's the most adorable thing ever when he's in the water, he loves it so much. When he looks up at me and smiles, droplets of water clinging to his eyelashes, his face so guileless... well, I have a LOT of things to live for, but, if I didn't, that would be enough.

Gia gave me four roses as an early V-day gesture. She'd given a single rose to a friend of ours a couple of days before to congratulate her on a performance. And I noticed that she'd given six to Eric. Heh, it made me laugh to do the math... ok, she likes our friend a quarter as well as she likes me, and she likes me two-thirds as much as she likes Eric... :)

The flowers were starting to wilt when she gave them to me. I removed the leaves, trimmed the stems way down, and put them in fresh water. In a couple of hours, they perked up and opened beautifully, and they're still that way now, full and gorgeous. Whenever I see them, I can't help but think of it as an allegory for the rewards of receiving every loving gesture with careful attention and appreciation.

This Sunday evening we're going to a queer dance party together, and we have another date scheduled for the end of next month. Between then and now we have a bunch of activities planned -- hanging with friends, going to the gym together, etc.

I've been reflecting on the idea of our relationship potentially being a non-sexual one. I don't know whether she wants me or just sort of wants to want me. I'd never been able to fathom the idea of non-sexual romantic partnerships before, but now it seems more plausible. More plausible, at least, than leaving her life just because there's one thing we don't do together any more.

I'm jumping the gun, of course. Hey, maybe we'll hook up on Sunday.

Davis and I went to a lecture tonight. Afterwards we hung out and talked, had drinks. We went up to my room, talked some more, kissed a little. He wanted to go farther, but I said no. He went home without any protest. I'm just... not sure how I need things to be there.

He seems so sanguine. It's not what I'd expected.

I'm beginning to think about the fact that, after a year and a half, I no longer have any restrictions on my intimate life. I'm thinking I'll wait at least a month before considering reaching out to anyone new (or old for that matter... thinking of Harry, of course).

It would be such an odd thing to actually seek out a stranger on a site like OKC and assess our compatibility (I believe people call that dating?). Definitely not a step I'm ready for at the moment. But it's interesting to think about the fact that I could if I wanted. I've always just sort of let my relationships come to me. How well would I fare if I went out to find one? Would it be worth the time and effort?
 
The situation with you and Davis sounds a bit confusing. I mean I guess your signature line is right when it says "It's complicated". I hope you can sort it out and be something that both of you are comfortable with.

It would be such an odd thing to actually seek out a stranger on a site like OKC and assess our compatibility (I believe people call that dating?). Definitely not a step I'm ready for at the moment. But it's interesting to think about the fact that I could if I wanted. I've always just sort of let my relationships come to me. How well would I fare if I went out to find one? Would it be worth the time and effort?

Oh, this sounds so familiar. I had exactly the same thoughts a couple of months ago. Online dating is weird in a way. But the good thing about it is that you know beforehand that everyone you date is poly, if that's what you want. Depending on where you live, it can be difficult to find poly people in other ways.
 
I've been reflecting on the idea of our relationship potentially being a non-sexual one. I don't know whether she wants me or just sort of wants to want me. I'd never been able to fathom the idea of non-sexual romantic partnerships before, but now it seems more plausible. More plausible, at least, than leaving her life just because there's one thing we don't do together any more.


Hi Annabel,

This paragraph you wrote really caught me, and I wanted to toss an idea out there. If I'm way off base, I apologize.:)

If I understand correctly, you are the first woman Gia has really had a loving and ongoing relationship with, while for you F/F relationships been part of your life for a long time. The same is true of my girlfriend and myself. Because of her health, our relationship stopped being sexual quite a while ago, the same as with you and Gia's pregnancy and new motherhood. As time went on, that aspect of our relationship became more and more unreal to me. I know we used to be sexual, but now in my head it's foggy, more like remembering a dream than anything else, whereas sex with men still seems clear. I've read that neural pathways form with repetition. For me, 30 years of sex with men is ingrained, where sex with a woman for only a year is much more amorphous.

The idea of trying to get back to where we used to be can seem really daunting to me, like having to start all over again with something unknown. The challenge of something new instead of the resumption of something familiar, I guess. Is it possible Gia might be feeling something like that?
 
@SoL: That's an interesting thought, and it may well play a role. It's helpful to be reminded that there are lots of reasons why this might be hard/strange for her. Still, unless I can actually do something about it, I'm trying not to focus too much on any particular explanation, and instead just deal with the reality as it is. I figure that if I use a rationale as a crutch, it'll hurt all the more if it gets taken away... for instance, for a while I was just working under the idea that she wasn't a particularly sexual person, and when she became very interested in sex with Dexter I had a hard time coming to terms with the new reality I was faced with.
 
You make a totally valid point. It's more about your being okay with whatever choices she makes, being okay with whatever happens next, instead of attaching to a theory and seeing it vanish, leaving you drifting. Being okay no matter the outcome....Thank you for explaining that. Again, love your blog.
 
The situation with you and Davis sounds a bit confusing. I mean I guess your signature line is right when it says "It's complicated". I hope you can sort it out and be something that both of you are comfortable with.

It IS confusing. I mean, I'm talking about potentially having a non-sexual relationship (more exploration on that topic here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40624) with Gia and a sexual non-relationship with Davis. That would seem pretty backwards to most people, I imagine.

With Gia, I honestly don't think it'll come to that. I mean, we'll see, and I'm trying to become comfortable with the idea just in case, but I believe we'll be screwing each other again down the line, I do. :)

And then there's Davis. After a tumultuous early history, we were fwb's for years without incident. Things shifted for us a year and a half ago when we decided to try being partners again, with the specific goal of becoming primary partners. But... it never really gelled. I never got comfortable with the idea of moving in together, of starting to build a life together in the way we'd talked about. And he never quite threw himself into building the partnership on his end either -- he was, as he told me today, waiting for me to make a move, not quite trusting that I would. It was sort of a long period of limbo.

So... what now, now that we've officially given up on the life partners idea? Leave each other's lives completely, stay friends but keep it platonic, or go back to being fwb's? At first I'd thought the first option was the right and necessary one. He's monogamous and he deserves a partner, but how, I asked myself, can he move on and find someone new with me still around? The idea of losing him from my life consistently drove me to tears, but I was sure it was right. Thank goodness, he pointed out to me the condescension of that stance, as well as how much our friendship means to us both, and convinced me that staying friends was the better thing to do for us both.

Friends, then. Of course, as friends, we've pretty much always had a sexual charge between us, it'd be hard to imagine that at SOME point we wouldn't sleep together again. But the idea of leaving the possibility of sex in the mix was giving me an even greater deal of pause. A couple people that I'd spoken to about it suggested that it was a bad idea. I thought that they might have good points, that if I left that door open, as natural as it seemed to be to do so on one level, I might be encouraging him to cling to the idea of something with me that he wasn't going to get, and discouraging him from maybe trying again with someone new.

How tempting it was to think of continuing to enjoy the easy, comfortable and intimate friendship that he and I have always had. Of sort of re-setting to before we started to try dating again... keeping all the good stuff, the conversation and the camaraderie and the closeness, without the pressure, without having to agonize over whether or not I wanted to commit to this man and this relationship above all others. But could it possibly be that simple?

Well, we had a REALLY good conversation today and I'm beginning to think that, yeah, maybe it could be. We both laid it all out on the table. He explained that, in his mind, in a way we never really even moved on from being fwb's. We may have intended to, but without taking any concrete steps it wasn't real to him. That's why it was so easy for him to take this "breakup" well. He said that, in fact, he'd been thinking for a couple of months of suggesting the same thing, that we let the idea of partnership go, that he set me free from the semi-monogamous bounds I'd been adhering to for his sake.

He resisted the notion of breaking up when I brought it up, because he was still torn about it, and because nobody likes being rejected, but in his heart a large part of him had already accepted that this wasn't going to work out how we'd envisioned. I was kind of shocked to hear that he'd felt that way, but also greatly relieved.

For my part, I explained everything I've written above. I told him how I've felt guilt at the idea of getting to enjoy friendship and intimacy with him when it seems like it might be at the cost of him finding another partner. How I have a very hard time believing this could really be ok. He responded with candor to everything I said. He admitted that he might well be very hurt if/when I end up forming a partnership with someone else in the way I couldn't with him. It will be a bridge to either cross or burn when we get there. But, he said that he considers our friendship, our depth of understanding with each other, to be too valuable to sacrifice. He said that now, when he thinks about us growing old together, he can picture it being as best friends, and not necessarily as an old married couple.

Wow. To be that flexible, that logical about it... color me impressed. But I believed him, I didn't think he was lying to try to hold onto me by any means necessary, y'know? It was genuine.

And, more than that, his actions the last few days have all borne out the notion that this "new normal" really is ok. Is, in fact, better than the way things had been. For instance, Gia happened to also be at the lecture that he and I attended last night. Afterwards, the two of them spoke about some of the ideas that had been raised. They haven't spoke to each other in MONTHS, and he's always been sort of taciturn around her. Not so anymore, apparently.

Another thing, a friend of mine has been interested in practicing Japanese rope bondage on me (with me clothed) for some time. I'd brought it up to Davis, and he'd been uncomfortable with the idea of my friend and I doing that on our own. I suggested that maybe he could watch, learn a few things. He'd been non-committal. While he didn't outright reject the idea, I also couldn't pin him down on it. I brought it up again the other day and he said yes right away, we set a date.

Finally, the most striking thing -- we've agreed to hang out every Wednesday night. We didn't have a date night when we were dating, but now that we've broken up we have one. o_0 Just... it's kind of stunning how much better things feel, and how much smoother they're flowing, now that we've re-framed our connection.

Heh, I have NO idea how to explain this to either of our sets of parents.
 
Of course, when talking about Gia and I having a sexual versus a non-sexual relationship, it helps to understand what those terms mean! And when you're kinky, that can be a lot fuzzier, as this blogger points out -- http://theladygarden.org/2011/10/18/everything-is-sex/. While she and I haven't had conventional sex (not that there's much "conventional" about the sex we have, but you know what I mean) in a month a half, we HAVE had a number of erotically charged moments and encounters, some subtle and fleeting, some blatant and lingering, having to do with, say, me kneeling to rub her feet or her asking me to fetch her something and then ruffling my hair. Food for thought.
 
Of course, when talking about Gia and I having a sexual versus a non-sexual relationship, it helps to understand what those terms mean! And when you're kinky, that can be a lot fuzzier, as this blogger points out -- http://theladygarden.org/2011/10/18/everything-is-sex/. While she and I haven't had conventional sex (not that there's much "conventional" about the sex we have, but you know what I mean) in a month a half, we HAVE had a number of erotically charged moments and encounters, some subtle and fleeting, some blatant and lingering, having to do with, say, me kneeling to rub her feet or her asking me to fetch her something and then ruffling my hair. Food for thought.

Thanks for that link Annabel, it's been helpful while I'm thinking about my relationship with MrBrown (the first person I've ever explored kink with) and what it means in terms of being sexual, not sexual, psychological. So much to think about.
 
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